Trump Revealed Classified Information to Russian Foreign Minister - WashPo

[Deleted]

Maybe they don't have a name because it's not a meaningful concept?

Given that this group was instrumental in electing Donald Trump, you may have to change your mind in regards to that.
Again, its a noticeable trend that this group increasingly is voting in an identitarian political pattern.

Europe itself is a patchwork of hundreds of "races".

Again, in 1960, 90% of american citizens where 'white' where white almost entirely means of western European descent, English, Irish, German, Italian, so forth, this (then) constituted an 'American' nation.
The absence of good nomenclature for this group doesn't refute it's existence.
As i have said a few times, 'White' Is a proxy for a thing that does not have a good name.

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Ah, ok. Well, the only things in that list that differ between 'them' and 'us' are culture (lumping traditions, customs and habits together) and ethnicity.

If they're worried that the ethnic composition is changing, then fuck them. I'm here and I don't care if they like it or not.

Yeah again, the immigration policy since 1965 has shaped the current america, and they have all the right in the world to not like that, and change said policy to whatever they want it to be.
You not liking that, or them, does not constitute a persuasive argument.

So let's move on to culture. The U.S. is already a large enough geographical region that different regions and states and even cities have their own cultures. The cultural changes that have these guys all up in arms is happening in metropolitan areas and cities.

With the exception of a few big things like education policy and gay marriage, what cultural shifts are these guys seeing in their stuck-in-time places?

Those aren't big things? - And again, read the fucking link - Trump support correlates very strongly with the immigration of Hispanics (and i'm just going to point out that they have a different culture).

I can come up with many reasons why they're angry, but I can't come up with any that I would consider a serious grievance.

You seem to be unfamiliar with democracy, you don't have any right to judge what other people find important or not.

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He also seems to have forgotten American history

A people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs
By that they meant WASP's - Just throwing that out there.
Up until 1965, US immigration policy was Explicitly racist - Its the current policy that's a break with american history, not the other way around.

Throughout our entire history, we've had waves of mass immigration, mostly from Europe, but often from other regions as well. When that mass immigration occurred, immigrants typically come to the country they're immigrating to with... nothing. They were all too often viewed as lazy or criminals or some other such nonsense by the anti-immigrants, and indeed, often times they lived in slums/ghettos early in the immigration period...

Only to rise up within a generation and fully integrate.

You know there are still places where they speak German?
And again, just putting this out here: This does not in any way refute what i said.

I wonder why @GoblinP would use that 90% figure, since it includes most other previous immigrant groups that were considered a foreign invading force... since a large percentage of them were NOT "a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs"

I used the figure because this paper used the fucking figure.

[Garnier Fructis]

Yeah again, the immigration policy since 1965 has shaped the current america, and they have all the right in the world to not like that, and change said policy to whatever they want it to be.
You not liking that, or them, does not constitute a persuasive argument.

Oh, they have the right to not like that. They can not-like-it until they have aneurysms. And they can vote to change policy, up to a point. But you know what? The rest of us, who aren't 'part of the nation' happen to be citizens, and we're here to stay. And they can't do a damn thing about it.

So their complaints are basically nonsense. Because they can complain all they want, but the ethnic composition has changed. And short of kicking out citizens, there is nothing they can do about it.

And this conversation is reminding me of just how much I hate ethno-nationalism.

Those aren't big things? - And again, read the fucking link - Trump support correlates very strongly with the immigration of Hispanics (and i'm just going to point out that they have a different culture).
You seem to be unfamiliar with democracy, you don't have any right to judge what other people find important or not.

Did you seriously just write "Those aren't big things?" when 'big things' is literally what I wrote immediately before the stuff you underlined? It's like you didn't actually get my point there.

And... are you kidding? I don't have a right to judge?

I don't have the right to tell them they can't say or think that way. That's the democracy part.

But I *do* have the right to judge, and to express my opinion about their complaints. You know why? Because of this thing called 'freedom of speech.'

[Deleted]

Oh, they have the right to not like that. They can not-like-it until they have aneurysms. And they can vote to change policy, up to a point.

Up to a point?

The rest of us, who aren't 'part of the nation' happen to be citizens, and we're here to stay. And they can't do a damn thing about it.

Yeah, there are no ways for the majority to fuck with the minority, No.

So their complaints are basically nonsense. Because they can complain all they want, but the ethnic composition has changed. And short of kicking out citizens, there is nothing they can do about it.

Their current strategy seems to be to get rid of the 1965 immigration act and build a wall.

And this conversation is reminding me of just how much I hate ethno-nationalism.

What you are basically saying is that you hate human beings now.

Did you seriously just write "Those aren't big things?" when 'big things' is literally what I wrote immediately before the stuff you underlined? It's like you didn't actually get my point there.

With the exception of a few big things like education policy and gay marriage, what cultural shifts are these guys seeing in their stuck-in-time places?
My point was that those things are large enough to drive opinion all on their own.

And... are you kidding? I don't have a right to judge?

I don't have the right to tell them they can't say or think that way. That's the democracy part.

I can come up with many reasons why they're angry, but I can't come up with any that I would consider a serious grievance.
The antonym of serious is trivial, to clarify my point, you don't have any standing to declare their concerns trivial.

[Mormolyce]

Given that this group was instrumental in electing Donald Trump, you may have to change your mind in regards to that.
Again, its a noticeable trend that this group increasingly is voting in an identitarian political pattern.

Oh I thought you were talking about the white race. Apparently you're just talking about hicks.

[Wyrt]

Oh I thought you were talking about the white race. Apparently you're just talking about hicks.

Yes, the people most afraid of other cultures/races are the ones least likely to see them. It's really odd.

[mvaliz]

No, those immigrants accepted American culture over time.

What the fuck is "American Culture"!? Oh yeah, a mixed-blend of other cultures that they brought over. Is Spaghetti and Meatballs an italian dish to you? Guess again! that's AMERICAN! A quick dish designed by immigrants in hovervilles! And most Chinese food? Most isn't authentic at all, but it blended in with most of society's tastes and readily available ingredients combined with what they knew and had brought with them. "American Culture" is forever changing BECAUSE of our immigrants! >_<

There are 30 million people in the Midwest of German ancestry but that region is not famous for its bratwurst.

Way to fucking stereotype there. Newsflash, GERMANY is famous for Bratwurst, but it's NOT their favorite food! Next you'll be saying that Dutch immigrants didn't go clogging around in wooden shoes in America. Good christ, man! >_<

[Deleted]

Yes, the people most afraid of other cultures/races are the ones least likely to see them. It's really odd.

Who is more afraid of his house burning down?
The man with a house, or the man with the chared remains of a house?

[Deletedaccount1]

What the fuck is "American Culture"!? Oh yeah, a mixed-blend of other cultures that they brought over. Is Spaghetti and Meatballs an italian dish to you? Guess again! that's AMERICAN! A quick dish designed by immigrants in hovervilles! And most Chinese food? Most isn't authentic at all, but it blended in with most of society's tastes and readily available ingredients combined with what they knew and had brought with them. "American Culture" is forever changing BECAUSE of our immigrants! >_<



Way to fucking stereotype there. Newsflash, GERMANY is famous for Bratwurst, but it's NOT their favorite food! Next you'll be saying that Dutch immigrants didn't go clogging around in wooden shoes in America. Good christ, man! >_<

How exactly does anything you just said contradict my point?

[mvaliz]

How exactly does anything you just said contradict my point?

American Culture = constant evolving mix of other cultures and what they bring to the pot.

I can't boil this down any simpler for you.

[Deleted]

Chared remains? So any nation/culture that takes in immigrants ruins their nations? That's some edgy /pol/ shit right there.

What a dumb comparison.

make it on fire instead if you want.

[Deleted]

Still not a good comparison.

You think immigrant's don't change the culture of the region they inhabit?

[Orangetai420]

McMaster made that comment not the media, he said Trump was not really aware of what he was doing. It's another defense his administration is trying to use that he didn't do this intentionally to do harm.

What scares me the most is the feeling that Trump knows EXACTLY what he is doing. I don't think he is stupid - he feigns ignorance.

[Deleted]

Depends entirely on the nation and situation, some do some don't. You on the other hand try to simplify it all with "all immigration is bad no matter what and where".

Reality doesn't work that way mate.

All migration everywhere every time is always bad for the nation.
And to be clear by nation i do not mean country.

[Daelak]

It is their stories in general, not just their political stories. And as I have stated, they endorsed the Democratic Party. Newspapers shouldn't endorse any political affiliation at all if they want to remain truly neutral. By endorsing a political party they openly indicate their bias. You just can not see it because of your rose tinted glasses.

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You should also be fully vetted. But that doesn't happen either.

It's the opinion part of the newspaper. Why is that so hard to understand for conservatives?

[Draco-Onis]

a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs
By that they meant WASP's - Just throwing that out there.

Then most of the world are not nations then especially the US where we all descent from very different ancestors, have a variety of religions and celebrate our differences in customs and manners. But keep hanging in there I am sure your perfect all white nation of the same ancestors is out there somewhere

[ati87]

You think immigrant's don't change the culture of the region they inhabit?

Time changes culture
Movies changed culture
Internet changed culture
McDonald's changed culture

If the argument is that changing culture is bad then you should really focus on the quickest thing and stop using the open internet and just go north Korea style.

the biggest changer of culture has been the United States of America thanks to promoting American movies and business all over the word. A McDonald's isn't half as popular in Turkey compared to a McDonald in th e Netherlands because American movies aren't that big in Turkey. I can't walk 100m without coming across a Mccoy als in Rotterdam....

[Deletedaccount1]

American Culture = constant evolving mix of other cultures and what they bring to the pot.

I can't boil this down any simpler for you.

I don't disagree with that. My argument is that once an ingredient is part of the pot, it becomes hard to tell it apart from everything else. American culture is a mix of different cultures but so are most cultures in the world, they just happen to be a lot older. Like I said though, after a few generations, a lot of people don't even know where their ancestors came from anyway. I'm not making an anti-immigration argument.

[Macaquerie]

Then most of the world are not nations then especially the US where we all descent from very different ancestors, have a variety of religions and celebrate our differences in customs and manners. But keep hanging in there I am sure your perfect all white nation of the same ancestors is out there somewhere

"Nations" are artificial constructs anyway, they were mostly cooked up in the 19th century so that rulers could hold together territories with oddly defined borders and diverse populations by inventing some connection to a common origin in the mythical past. Unsurprisingly, this ended up destroying most of the cultural legacy of Europe since anyone who didn't conform with the newly defined "national" culture was swiftly beaten into compliance.

[Somewhatconcerned]

All migration everywhere every time is always bad for the nation.
And to be clear by nation i do not mean country.

You will never stop immigration, migration, or the movement of people across the globe.

Sorry if this somehow threatens your white European "heritage."

Consider it galactic kharma for the last 1000 years of European imperialism.

[Deleted]

You will never stop immigration, migration, or the movement of people across the globe.

That's a very defeatist attitude.

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"Nations" are artificial constructs anyway,

No, just no.

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the biggest changer of culture has been the United States of America thanks to promoting American movies and business all over the word. A McDonald's isn't half as popular in Turkey compared to a McDonald in th e Netherlands because American movies aren't that big in Turkey. I can't walk 100m without coming across a Mccoy als in Rotterdam....

As if i'm a 'fan' of the US?