2/10 immigrants understand basic Swedish after 6 years

[Themius]

^
This. Basic language skills after 6 years is a joke. Better make it something like 6 months to a year. If you fail you get kicked to the curb. If you get caught again your organs are harvested and you get kicked out with a bottle of aspirin.

Waht type of stupid shit is this? Like what type of world do you people want to live in? This is some weird language nationalism and it's fucking retarded.

[Draco-Onis]

Some students means schools need reform when the vast majority study full time?

sigh

The students are asking for more subjects and more instructions to learn the language, does that sound like they don't want to learn to you? This is a study of 3500 people and it seems more critical of the system in place then the students themselves. The subject in the op is very misleading.

[Themius]

He won't be able to provide one.

actually a few years ago (2) i went through the rape data for sweden and finland and posted it on this board already.

[Daneman]

sigh

The students are asking for more subjects and more instructions to learn the language, does that sound like they don't want to learn to you? This is a study of 3500 people and it seems more critical of the system in place then the students themselves. The subject in the op is very misleading.

Soem students get 13 hours and you say they need reform?

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actually a few years ago (2) i went through the rape data for sweden and finland and posted it on this board already.

Post it then.

[Themius]

By the way the oh so evil crime rate in Swedish immigrant neighbourhoods is about the same as America (overall) not American bad neighborhoods, just... America.

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Soem students get 13 hours and you say they need reform?

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Post it then.

go find the shit yourself I don't feel like searching through my posts to show you some shit you won't believe for some convoluted reason anyway.

[Draco-Onis]

Soem students get 13 hours and you say they need reform?

There isn't enough information in the article, it is rather vague it would be better to elaborate on how these schools and their programs work. Perhaps a different approach is needed I am not sure but one study and one article with vague assertions is not exactly enough information.

[Daneman]

go find the shit yourself I don't feel like searching through my posts to show you some shit you won't believe for some convoluted reason anyway.

So you're just bullshitting. Okay.

[Themius]

So you're just bullshitting. Okay.

No i'm not bullshitting, you just don't mean shit to me nor does your opinion. You wanted a citation I told you the time frame I posted it, go search away.

[xindralol]

Waht type of stupid shit is this? Like what type of world do you people want to live in? This is some weird language nationalism and it's fucking retarded.

Hey be civil ... I don't go around spamming profanity either.
Do you really want to live in a country where you can't even understand your neighbor? What if you're missing milk to make that juicy pie on a Sunday? How do you communicate if there's a CO leak somewhere in the apartment complex?
Language is our primary means of communicating as human beings.

edit: Just realized Themius is indeed a very rude and uncivilized individual and should not be taken seriously on these forums so my bad for even replying I guess.

[Gully Man]

actually a few years ago (2) i went through the rape data for sweden and finland and posted it on this board already.

No you didn't because ethnicity of the victims is never provided in statistics.

[Azadina]

Soem students get 13 hours and you say they need reform?

Do you mean to tell that 13 hours is enough to learn a language? Do you speak Russian or Chinese? No? Ok, you have 13 hours to learn one of them, and prove it to everyone.

I've worked with some Estonians who had been taking language courses for 3 years, and living in the country that time, working. Their Finnish was average at best, and that's with the fact that Estonian has alot of similarities already to start with.

[Daneman]

No i'm not bullshitting, you just don't mean shit to me nor does your opinion. You wanted a citation I told you the time frame I posted it, go search away.

Yes, you are bullshitting. Do you know why? Because Sweden does not provide any data on who the victims are.

[Shinra1]

Citation needed.

The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen. But the definition of rape has broadened over time, which makes it difficult to compare the figures. It is also misleading to compare the figures with other countries, as many acts that are considered rape under Swedish law are not considered rape in many other countries.

For example: If a woman in Sweden reports that she has been raped by her husband every night for a year, that is counted as 365 separate offences; in most other countries this would be registered as a single offence, or would not be registered as an offence at all.

Willingness to report such offences also differs dramatically between countries. A culture in which these crimes are talked about openly, and victims are not blamed, will also have more cases reported. Sweden has made a conscious effort to encourage women to report any offence.

The number of rapes reported decreased 12 percent between 2014 and 2015, to 5,920, the agency reported. The council noted that in Sweden, when a single case is reported, every incident associated with the case is also reported as an offense during the same year.

The amount of reported rape offenses has gone up in the last 10 years (2006-15), which the agency said can be partially attributed to new legislation in 2005 that augmented the types of acts that can be classified as rape.

"The effect of the statutory change appeared in the statistics such that the number of reported offences in respect of sexual coercion and exploitation declined in the years immediately following the statutory change while the number of reported rapes increased," according to the agency. In 2013, a rape offense was broadened "to include cases where the victim reacts passively."

A 2016 Swedish Crime Survey (which reflects crimes in 2015) found that 13.3 percent of about 11,900 survey respondents were exposed to one or more offenses (categories: assault, threats, sexual offences, robbery, fraud or harassment.)

The 13.3 percent in 2015 is an increase from 11.3 percent in 2014, but about the same level as in 2005, the survey said. The report does not make any reference to or distinction on crimes committed by immigrants.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...on-and-sweden/

[Daneman]

Do you mean to tell that 13 hours is enough to learn a language? Do you speak Russian or Chinese? No? Ok, you have 13 hours to learn one of them, and prove it to everyone.

No, it says some students get that. Vast majority study full time. That doesn't mean the schools need a reform.

[Themius]

No you didn't because ethnicity of the victims is never provided in statistics.

There were two things I focussed on, one was the data of rape perps. which by the way in finland it was something like (concerning general population) 97.6 or so percent of immigrants aren't raping while for native finnish people it was about 98.9 or 99. Driving home the point that largely.. most people aren't raping. And then the second bit was a look at rape within immigrant communities in Sweden.

[Daneman]

The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen. But the definition of rape has broadened over time, which makes it difficult to compare the figures. It is also misleading to compare the figures with other countries, as many acts that are considered rape under Swedish law are not considered rape in many other countries.

For example: If a woman in Sweden reports that she has been raped by her husband every night for a year, that is counted as 365 separate offences; in most other countries this would be registered as a single offence, or would not be registered as an offence at all.

Willingness to report such offences also differs dramatically between countries. A culture in which these crimes are talked about openly, and victims are not blamed, will also have more cases reported. Sweden has made a conscious effort to encourage women to report any offence.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...on-and-sweden/

What does this even have to do with Themius claim that Gully wanted a citation for?

[Gully Man]

Do you mean to tell that 13 hours is enough to learn a language? Do you speak Russian or Chinese? No? Ok, you have 13 hours to learn one of them, and prove it to everyone.

Immigrants (who actually put effort in) who go through the Swedish for Immigrants course and then go on to study Swedish at an elementary school level get around 15 hours a week study time and usually complete it all within 18-24 months. Most of these get full time education and still don't pass.

[Themius]

Hey be civil ... I don't go around spamming profanity either.
Do you really want to live in a country where you can't even understand your neighbor? What if you're missing milk to make that juicy pie on a Sunday? How do you communicate if there's a CO leak somewhere in the apartment complex?
Language is our primary means of communicating as human beings.

edit: Just realized Themius is indeed a very rude and uncivilized individual and should not be taken seriously on these forums so my bad for even replying I guess.

Oh please as if profanity is hurting you.

I can't understand my neighbours because they fucking speak Hindi sometimes, or Russian, or Polish, or Arabic. I don't spazz out but then again I grew up in New York where people speaking all different languages was very normal, so I'm not a sheltered person shitting on everyone who doesn't speak English.

There's this app, google translate... speak into it... it'll translate.

[Shinra1]

It is very disrespectful to move to a country and not try your best to learn the language as soon as possible. You can learn/improve your English on top of it, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't primarily strive to learn Swedish.

As someone who did move from Austria to Sweden not too long ago: If you really want to, it's not that difficult. Language courses are widely available, quite good and free. You can sign up for them as soon as you have an address there.

You're right it is disrespectful but who says they are not trying their best? I do not for a second believe that the migrants in Sweden are lazy and are simply refusing to integrate out of sheer stuborness. Lets compare Sweden's immigration to the UK (where I live) where immigrants integrate rapidly and not only learn the language but are integrated into the work force immediately as well.

I'm sure the Swedish immigrants do want to work, but find themselves stuck outside a heavily-regulated jobs market that could have been designed by a populist demagogue to keep them out. For unskilled work in restaurants minimum wage is about £10 an hour or around that... For unskilled immigrants, especially from countries like Afghanistan and Somalia with no properly functioning education system, this means the Swedish dream ends before it begins. A policy intended to lift everyone’s wages has ended up destroying entry-level jobs, and ensuring thousands of immigrants are shut out of the economy, denied the first rung on the ladder to work.

Among Swedes, unemployment is about 4 per cent and falling. Among immigrants, it’s 22 per cent. No developed country has a higher differential: in Britain, there’s barely any difference at all. The Swedish government describes itself as a “humanitarian superpower” and accepted refugees on that basis, but its fatal mistake was failure to welcome so many without being able to integrate them. Hence the zones of joblessness and the criminality, and the inability to know what to do about it.

[Daneman]

There's this app, google translate... speak into it... it'll translate.

What a great solution, use a tool that can't take context into account or understand pitch accent in Swedish and the grammar sucks for most languages, instead of actually learning the language.

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You're right it is disrespectful but who says they are not trying their best? I do not for a second believe that the migrants in Sweden are lazy and are simply refusing to integrate out of sheer stuborness. Lets compare Sweden's immigration to the UK (where I live) where immigrants integrate rapidly and not only learn the language but are integrated into the work force immediately as well.

I'm sure the Swedish immigrants do want to work, but find themselves stuck outside a heavily-regulated jobs market that could have been designed by a populist demagogue to keep them out. For unskilled work in restaurants minimum wage is about £10 an hour or around that... For unskilled immigrants, especially from countries like Afghanistan and Somalia with no properly functioning education system, this means the Swedish dream ends before it begins. A policy intended to lift everyone’s wages has ended up destroying entry-level jobs, and ensuring thousands of immigrants are shut out of the economy, denied the first rung on the ladder to work.

Among Swedes, unemployment is about 4 per cent and falling. Among immigrants, it’s 22 per cent. No developed country has a higher differential: in Britain, there’s barely any difference at all. The Swedish government describes itself as a “humanitarian superpower” and accepted refugees on that basis, but its fatal mistake was failure to welcome so many without being able to integrate them. Hence the zones of joblessness and the criminality, and the inability to know what to do about it.

There is no minimum wage in Sweden.