Anti-EU folks, a Question

[Mayhem]

Because I have it stored doesn't mean I can find the relevant info you're talking about. So if you could at least bring up a source...

Jesus Christ!

Sure thing, i'll pm you my paypal info.

[Deleted]

Sure thing, i'll pm you my paypal info.

Your email?

[Deleted]

Where do you live? Was your family loyal to the EU 200 years ago? No? Guess we can't trust you to vote until they have been for 300 years.

If they had voted for Hitler, I would agree!

[Pannonian]

He could have, but the likelihood of it happening is lower I would say.

Those who voted for Hitler knew what was coming. Everybody could read his book and hear him speak. The man was bloodthirsty.

I think we should also strip their descendants the right to vote for EU elections permanently.

So, as all of my grandparents voted for Hitler in '38 - you would've killed them all and taken away any liberties they have while commiting genocide and other atrocities, based on your pseudo-scientific ignorance of genetics?

Where exactly is the difference between your ideas and the Nazis?

[Xarkan]

So, as all of my grandparents voted for Hitler in '38 - you would've killed them all and taken away any liberties they have while commiting genocide and other atrocities, based on your pseudo-scientific ignorance of genetics?

Where exactly is the difference between your ideas and the Nazis?

He would worship people looking slavic not nordic obviously.

[Pannonian]

Also could we please stop with the judeo-christian heritage nonsense? I swear this is the most loved talking point by the alt-right here in europe now.

What is our jewish tradition here in europe? 1200 years of prosecution. EVERY european country wanted the jews not to integrate, and they were always seen as foreign.

When you can bash muslims, the same people that normally cry about jewish world domination suddenly discover their "jewish" heritage.

Really... learn history mate. There is no judeo-christian heritage, apart from prosecution and progroms.

[Noradin]

They would be assimilated and not called German.

Ah yes, just as the "slavic nations" tried to do once before after WWII.
It backfired spectacularly and people who used to identify as slavic choose to leave the country and become German, rather than being forced to assimilate into the "true slavic culture" others decreed they had to belong to instead of their own.

[oxymoronic]

You know the price to access the market of the EU?

The same as being member of the EU which includes adhering to their rules, accepting freedom of movement between states, oh... and you have to pay fees.

So, everything would stay the same, but instead of receiving money, you would have to pay it.

yeah lets make an union so we can be international bullies. this is why people dont like europe.. i mean you had the audacity to sue google for putting its own businesses in front in their own web search lol. how stupid are the leaders of the EU? lol

[Noradin]

At least Germany would get some nice cities.

Have you ever seen Berlin? It looks worse than if it were flattened, lol!

Is all you know about Berlin from some visit to that new adventure park the Russians built to reenact the battle around the ruin the Nazis burnt down already?

[oxymoronic]

So, as all of my grandparents voted for Hitler in '38 - you would've killed them all and taken away any liberties they have while commiting genocide and other atrocities, based on your pseudo-scientific ignorance of genetics?

Where exactly is the difference between your ideas and the Nazis?

the guy is obviously off a little... let him talk his nonsense without exposing it, i find it amusing.

[Deleted]

So, as all of my grandparents voted for Hitler in '38 - you would've killed them all and taken away any liberties they have while commiting genocide and other atrocities, based on your pseudo-scientific ignorance of genetics?

Where exactly is the difference between your ideas and the Nazis?

I would let the Jews decide their fate. If that means stoning or crucifixion, then so be it.

[Deleted]

I am quite surprised by the amount of unreasonable arguments in this thread. It's almost as if anti-EU statements and lack of reasoning... correlate?

In my opinion, a Slavic Union couldn't exist, because most Slavic nations working together hasn't been a thing happening, ever. Neither in WW1, WW2, or before that. There is a Orthodox/Catholic religious divide, and a Religious/Atheist divide. Russian influence will be inevitable, and as much as I like Russian culture, literature and art, I'd prefer their geopolitical opinions to remain to the east of EU.

Since we're in the realm of the hypothetical at this point - What would happen if EU could place/influence a bit pro-Europe (not pro-West) agent in the Kremlin, post-Putin? Russia is rapidly losing influence, and Turkey has sadly gone bad. (If you've visited it in 2006-2010, you'd be agreeing how it could definitely be a part of the EU one day - Now, not so much) If there is a stronger alliance between EU and said hypothetical non-Putinist Russia, said alliance would be the biggest economical force on the planet, nearing the US in military influence, and possessing of the largest landmass. Considering that the UK will no longer be there to support US interests in the EU, and US image issues that arise from certain presidents, I feel this is quite the possibility.

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

Is all you know about Berlin from some visit to that new adventure park the Russians built to reenact the battle around the ruin the Nazis burnt down already?

I've been all around. Actually, I also visited the Jewish museum there. Very scary and emotional. Again, can't believe they weren't allowed to punish Germany...

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Also could we please stop with the judeo-christian heritage nonsense? I swear this is the most loved talking point by the alt-right here in europe now.

What is our jewish tradition here in europe? 1200 years of prosecution. EVERY european country wanted the jews not to integrate, and they were always seen as foreign.

When you can bash muslims, the same people that normally cry about jewish world domination suddenly discover their "jewish" heritage.

Really... learn history mate. There is no judeo-christian heritage, apart from prosecution and progroms.

Okay, Christian heritage. Christianity is part of European culture whether you like it or not.

I am irreligious but I love that aspect of Europe. Medieval Europe was amazing and very spiritual.

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I am quite surprised by the amount of unreasonable arguments in this thread. It's almost as if anti-EU statements and lack of reasoning... correlate?

In my opinion, a Slavic Union couldn't exist, because most Slavic nations working together hasn't been a thing happening, ever. Neither in WW1, WW2, or before that. There is a Orthodox/Catholic religious divide, and a Religious/Atheist divide. Russian influence will be inevitable, and as much as I like Russian culture, literature and art, I'd prefer their geopolitical opinions to remain to the east of EU.

Since we're in the realm of the hypothetical at this point - What would happen if EU could place/influence a bit pro-Europe (not pro-West) agent in the Kremlin, post-Putin? Russia is rapidly losing influence, and Turkey has sadly gone bad. (If you've visited it in 2006-2010, you'd be agreeing how it could definitely be a part of the EU one day - Now, not so much) If there is a stronger alliance between EU and said hypothetical non-Putinist Russia, said alliance would be the biggest economical force on the planet, nearing the US in military influence, and possessing of the largest landmass. Considering that the UK will no longer be there to support US interests in the EU, and US image issues that arise from certain presidents, I feel this is quite the possibility.

Thoughts?

No, Russians aren't idiots.

[Noradin]

Polygraphs only serve to reinforce notions you already have, really. A good liar can easily lie to a poly, while a particularly scared or confused person registers as lying more often than not. And given that the people that you want to do this were heavily prejudiced towards Germans anyway, there would likely not be any justice to be found there.

Justice isn't what he is after, he wants an empty space for "slavic" people to fill.

[Deleted]

Justice isn't what he is after, he wants an empty space for "slavic" people to fill.

Not at all. I'm after justice and safety precautions.

[Deleted]

I've been all around. Actually, I also visited the Jewish museum there. Very scary and emotional. Again, can't believe they weren't allowed to punish Germany...

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Okay, Christian heritage. Christianity is part of European culture whether you like it or not.

I am irreligious but I love that aspect of Europe. Medieval Europe was amazing and very spiritual.

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No, Russians aren't idiots.

And I'd argue that Medieval Europe (at least the knightly bits), was one of the most backwards and horrible places to be at that time.

Care to elaborate, or are you out of reasonable arguments? Russian-European relations were quite strong pre-1917 revolution, and before the removal of the Tzars. Now Europe has some reliance on Russia for energy. In 50 years, that might not be so. I think it'd be in their geopolitical interests to try and solidify those relations with Europe while it still can.

And I'm not saying they'd be a part of the EU. They have too much military strength and population to be an equal member. I was simply questioning the possiblity of a situation similar (but not the same) as with Nordic countries.

[Deleted]

And I'd argue that Medieval Europe (at least the knightly bits), was one of the most backwards and horrible places to be at that time.

Care to elaborate, or are you out of reasonable arguments? Russian-European relations were quite strong pre-1917 revolution, and before the removal of the Tzars. Now Europe has some reliance on Russia for energy. In 50 years, that might not be so. I think it'd be in their geopolitical interests to try and solidify those relations with Europe while it still can.

And I'm not saying they'd be a part of the EU. They have too much military strength and population to be an equal member. I was simply questioning the possiblity of a situation similar (but not the same) as with Nordic countries.

Elaborate what? Medieval Europe was ahead of the world [I mean, for obvious reasons], but all in all, it'd be my place to live outside of today. (I prefer today for the benefits of hygiene products, medicine, and other practical things.)

On Russia: there's no question they must resist the Western orientation at all costs. They should align with China and other growing areas and refuse to succumb. If America was not with Europe, Russia could perhaps find an ally in its own continent. Unfortunately Europe chose America, who happens to be our worst enemy pretty much nowadays. What a shame!

[Nadiru]

I am wholly unconcerned with the EU becoming more stable in its current format. Because of how the Eurozone and ECB function, the EU effectively creates a two-tier system of countries, with only one tier reaping the gains of economic growth. For the second tier, what they reap is increased debt and unemployment. Currently, those tier two Eurozone countries still feel a connection with the idea of the EU, narratively justifying its somewhat malign presence in their economies, but once that narrative dissolves, the Eurozone will dissolve with it, and the EU along with that.

[Deleted]

Elaborate what? Medieval Europe was ahead of the world [I mean, for obvious reasons], but all in all, it'd be my place to live outside of today. (I prefer today for the benefits of hygiene products, medicine, and other practical things.)

On Russia: there's no question they must resist the Western orientation at all costs. They should align with China and other growing areas and refuse to succumb. If America was not with Europe, Russia could perhaps find an ally in its own continent. Unfortunately Europe chose America, who happens to be our worst enemy pretty much nowadays. What a shame!

Hm. Is that before or after the Plague? Before I could argue that the Arabic world was more advanced in terms of science, and the Far East had larger, more organised empires. Then again, the world didn't work the same way it did back then, so a massive empire on the other side of the world wasn't as scary as it would be today.

Post the plague is going forward to the Renaissance, where things were definitely a lot better, but it isn't technically the Medieval times.

Regarding Russia and China: Problem there being that Russia and China can't be equal partners. While it's possible for them to ally, China has nothing Russia has that it can't live without, it's more advanced economically, militarily (as we're talking about post-Putin), and it's culturally significantly more different. I'd argue that said future Russia has a lot more to gain if it sides with Europe (Excluding the US in that situation.)

How would you define that Western orientation you so dislike? Is it the migrants, the 'liberal' values regarding minority rights, or the US influence? Honest question?

[Deleted]

Leaving it ?

i don't know.

If we sticked to the original plan (meaning, take the already strong country and make an ever stronger alliance) i would have been ok, not everyone and their grandmother joining it and when we French told Bruxelles "maybe that's enough" maybe not answer to a founding members "Well you can fuck off if you aren't happy mister baguette".

Now we have Germany that has vritualy no debt leading the charge of "do what i say you bitches" or country like Greece that torpedo'ed € and will continue to do so, but hey, at least as a French i now have a "young and dynamic" president for the next 5 years who is absolutely not a pet for Merkel's Reich, eh.