Tinkers In Our Future?

[Teriz]

You can't divide "in-game" lore like it's thing for itself. It's lore overall and it starts from 'WarCraft I: Orcs & Humans'. Warlocks demonology turned into controlling demon pets, because metamorphosis belongs to Demon Hunters. It's called adjusting the lore and the class fantasy. I play warlock since vanilla and I don't find this strange.

So you're saying that Warlocks having metamorphosis wasn't lore-based?

Because it was;

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Council_of_the_Black_Harvest

[Ielenia]

Im tired of seeing the "Tinker will never happen because we have engineering". Can i use my engineering to do competitive dps?

Oh look! Another one who can't seem to distinguish gameplay from lore.

Lots of people were sure Blizzard wouldnt implement Demon Hunter....but, voila,

There's a big difference between a class that is intrinsically tied to the game universe's lore and especially with the Burning Legion, and a class idea that is not linked at all in the lore other than "hey, technology exists".

and what pray tell are these Demon Hunters going to do if the next expansion is Old God themed or Titan themed?

And what, pray tell, are these Death Knights going to do if the next expansion is Old God themed or Titan themed?

[Deleted]

How could tinkers fit into the south sea / aszhara setting?

[Teriz]

There is not a single word about metamorphosis and yes, I know Knarethad Ebonlocke transforms into demonic form but that's not like it's good thing for warlocks.

"..and from it stepped Kanrethad in a monstrous demonic form, utterly corrupted by absorbing too much fel energy."

That's from link you gave.

Warlocks learned Meta from Kanrethad.

There was no explanation for them un-learning it.

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How could tinkers fit into the south sea / aszhara setting?

Undermine is supposedly currently underwater after the events of Cataclysm. Goblin and Gnome tinkers could try to reclaim it.

[Deleted]

I'd like a more simplistic look for a potential Tinker where things like machines, shredders, rockets and gadgets would be animation spell bound rather than actual part of your armor. Mail would add in a nice 3rd class in addition to the Shammy and Hunter.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Warlocks learned Meta from Kanrethad.

There was no explanation for them un-learning it.

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Undermine is supposedly currently underwater after the events of Cataclysm. Goblin and Gnome tinkers could try to reclaim it.

you do know meta was a thing before that quest right? if the lore doesn't add up for the timeline of them learning it why does it have to add up to unlearn it?

[Teriz]

you do know meta was a thing before that quest right? if the lore doesn't add up for the timeline of them learning it why does it have to add up to unlearn it?

Because the lore takes place before WotLK when Locks received the spell. Kanrethad was present when the heroes defeated Illidan, so him learning metamorphosis and then spreading that knowledge to other Warlocks makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is all of that knowledge getting suddenly lost with no lore explanation. I mean, clearly Blizzard wanted Demon Hunters in the game and they decided to gut Warlocks to make it happen, but lore-wise there is simply no explanation for what happened.

Interesting how people are okay with that, but have some bizarre affinity for the preservation of Engineering. Engineering won't be nearly as damaged by the inclusion of Tinkers as Warlocks were damaged by the inclusion of Demon Hunters.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Because the lore takes place before WotLK when Locks received the spell. Kanrethad was present when the heroes defeated Illidan, so him learning metamorphosis and then spreading that knowledge to other Warlocks makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is all of that knowledge getting suddenly lost with no lore explanation. I mean, clearly Blizzard wanted Demon Hunters in the game and they decided to gut Warlocks to make it happen, but lore-wise there is simply no explanation for what happened.

Interesting how people are okay with that, but have some bizarre affinity for the preservation of Engineering. Engineering won't be nearly as damaged by the inclusion of Tinkers as Warlocks were damaged by the inclusion of Demon Hunters.

aaaaaaaaaand. your wrong "This book may be just the leverage we've been seeking...

How familiar are you with the Council of the Black Harvest, <name>?

After Deathwing was defeated, six of the greatest Warlocks gathered together to teach all Warlocks advanced forms of magic stolen from our defeated foes.

Take a look at the tome beside me..."

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Tale_of_Six_Masters.

the quest takes place after cata so no it doesn't add up lore wise.

[Teriz]

aaaaaaaaaand. your wrong "This book may be just the leverage we've been seeking...

How familiar are you with the Council of the Black Harvest, <name>?

After Deathwing was defeated, six of the greatest Warlocks gathered together to teach all Warlocks advanced forms of magic stolen from our defeated foes.
]Take a look at the tome beside me..."

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:A_Tale_of_Six_Masters.

the quest takes place after cata so no it doesn't add up lore wise.

"Kanrethad was present, ostensibly as a member of the Alliance, in the battle where Illidan Stormrage was killed during the siege of the Black Temple. Following the battle he shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with the Council."

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Kanrethad_Ebonlocke

[Kiradyn]

From the most recent leak from the next expansion:

•The Tinker class is indeed beign discussed, but not decided yet to be added in the Expansion. The main reason for this is the lack of context for it to be relevant in the story they're trying to tell. The one presented to us in the last leaked email seems to be just one of the proposed.

•It's specs are also intended to be Tank and DPS, but a third Ranged DPS spec is also discussed. Most of the developers involved think that it could be 'excesive' and could be too similar to the Hunter class, leaving an Hybrid spec like Paladin's Retribution as a better option for the Tinker class. It also seems the team doesn't feel confident on adding another 2-spec class in the game right now.

If true, it doesn't seem that they're going the mech route, and its a bit disappointing that they're attempting a melee DPS with the class.

Guess we'll find out soon enough if this is true or not.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

"Kanrethad was present, ostensibly as a member of the Alliance, in the battle where Illidan Stormrage was killed during the siege of the Black Temple. Following the battle he shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with the Council."

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Kanrethad_Ebonlocke

it aurally doesn't say any thing about knowing how to do it. sharing the secrets doesn't mean they knew how to actually do it the only one of them we see in meta is kanrethad after he has gone mad from doing it.

edit: reading though it more it says he shared the secrets with the council of 6 not all warlocks and the council didn't share there info till after deathwind died. so the time line still doesn't add up for the pc.

[Teriz]

it aurally doesn't say any thing about knowing how to do it. sharing the secrets doesn't mean they knew how to actually do it the only one of them we see in meta is kanrethad after he has gone mad from doing it.

edit: reading though it more it says he shared the secrets with the council of 6 not all warlocks and the council didn't share there info till after deathwind died. so the time line still doesn't add up for the pc.

So you have issue with the lore not specifically saying that he spread the knowledge to every single Warlock on Azeroth, but you have zero issue with all Warlocks suddenly losing Metamorphosis with no lore explanation at all?

Makes sense.

[Azalar]

You know already what happens when Teriz joins on a thread about Tinkers.

In any case he's right.

[In Ogres We Trust]

I could maybe see a tech based class but probably not one specifically built around goblins and gnomes. Because, while the engineering profession doesn't give you the capabilities of a class, they're basically the same thing. Build machines and gadgets and bombs and rockets and lasers and explosives etc.

"But Florena, what about mages and enchanters?" Enchanting is a school of magic entirely separate from the spells mages cast as a class. There's not nearly the same degree of thematic overlap.

Also keep in mind every class added so far has tied into the main themes of their expansions. Death knights and the scourge. Monks and pandaria. Demon hunters and the Legion. I don't see blizzard making an expansion where the main focus is on goblins and gnomes, even if them getting the spotlight here and there is nice.

Does this 100% mean that tinkers won't happen as a class? No. But I find it very unlikely, and there probably won't be another one anyway until 9.0.

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Wait where are you getting the idea that tinkers would have four specs? I doubt blizz is ever going to add another four spec class to the game again. Druids only have four specs because they had a tank/melee dps mixed spec in Feral before they went to enforcing single roles in all specs in MoP and couldn't just remove one playstyle without alienating fans.

As a whole new class, tinkers could have four. Or three. Or even just two. There's absolutely no reason to expect more than three that I can see and no reason to be surprised if they only add 2 again like with demon hunter.

Mechanical Suit can tank or melee dps... that's two. Ranged DPS would, in addition to dropping cannons and/or the use of guns, drop turrets like Gazlowe in HotS or the midget guy in Overwatch (also including the mortar team from the Alliance). Finally, there's the goblin alchemist from the RTS. He or she would use potions, magic, and technology to heal and/or support their allies.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Alchemist_(Warcraft_III)
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Tinker_(Warcraft_III)

Tank (Mechanical Suit)
Melee DPS (Mechanical Suit)
Ranged DPS (Non-mechanical Suit - http://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Torbj%C3%B6rn or http://heroesofthestorm.gamepedia.com/Gazlowe)
Healer/Support (Non-Mechanical Suit - Goblin Alchemist, etc.)

[Teriz]

From the most recent leak from the next expansion:

If true, it doesn't seem that they're going the mech route, and its a bit disappointing that they're attempting a melee DPS with the class.

Guess we'll find out soon enough if this is true or not.

Possibly. Keep in mind that a melee DPS could still be mech-based. If Blizzard is truly going for a Retribution model for the class, it would be a mix of ranged and melee combat.

For example, Gelbin's mech arm swapping from claw to cannon in the popular gif.

[Deleted]

Undermine is supposedly currently underwater after the events of Cataclysm. Goblin and Gnome tinkers could try to reclaim it.

Yeah, thats a good idea. While undermine always was a goblin city. Gnomes would be invaders.

[Shammyrock]

DHs wearing leather shows Blizz value what fits over filling gaps in armor types

[Lorgar Aurelian]

So you have issue with the lore not specifically saying that he spread the knowledge to every single Warlock on Azeroth, but you have zero issue with all Warlocks suddenly losing Metamorphosis with no lore explanation at all?

Makes sense.

"Kanrethad was present, ostensibly as a member of the Alliance, in the battle where Illidan Stormrage was killed during the siege of the Black Temple. Following the battle he shared the secrets of Illidan's transformation with the Council."

"After Deathwing was defeated, six of the greatest Warlocks gathered together to teach all Warlocks advanced forms of magic stolen from our defeated foes."

if the time line doesn't add up for the pc learning it why should it matter if it doesn't line up for them forgetting it? there is no basis that they need to explain it being gone as there was no lore basis of them learning it as it learned it after cata yet the ability was in the game in wrath.

[Teriz]

Yeah, thats a good idea. While undermine always was a goblin city. Gnomes would be invaders.

True. I was mainly pointing it out because there's supposedly a massive Tinker's Union in Undermine which is supposedly the hub of Goblin tech.

[hrugner]

I'd much prefer the tinker style class show up as a spec for a broader tech themed class, but some how it'll end up in the game sooner or later. Tech themes fit pretty well whenever the game veers into areas where normal folk shouldn't just be able to walk around. aquatic and space environments are pretty obvious ones, but biological threats would also give cause for a rise in tech infantry. Unfortunately, the "tinker" class idea would lock out the tech themes present in the culture of blood elves, draenei, forsaken, and dwarves; which is why I expect something more like an "artificer" class with tinker, magitech, and biotech specs.