Trump decides to go in for the kill (on his Presidency): $800 Billion Medicaid Cuts

[melodramocracy]

Another in the long line of "fuck you, I've got mine" actions by the right. Internet independents(tm) and Trump voters too dumb to realize that they'll be on said programs before they know it are dancing in the streets I'm sure.

[Deja Thoris]

I truly believe that part of a governments "job", apart from defence and education etc is to take care of the sick and vulnerable people in the population. It's a country, not a company that you're running.

Initiatives like this are a disgrace. Not only do they in all likelihood kill some of those people, they also open the inequality divide even more.

[Anevers]

Japan's healthcare system is the model, but America, generally completely full of shit when it comes to Healthcare, is supremely creative in coming up with Bullshit reasons why *its special* and why it has to innovate something different. It does this rather than implement the strat of our fellow hyper-capitalist country which solved it's Healthcare crisis in 4 years in the Early 1990s.

There is precisely zero innovation that has to go on With healthcare. We're not pioneers. We're in the running for 90th place.

I believe you've discussed it in the past (the Japanese model), could you elaborate again on what are the key parts of the Japanese healthcare system we need to adopt?

[melodramocracy]

Want to save money? Just look at any of the countries that do healthcare better than us at low prices. We're paying more for healthcare than countries with universal healthcare. How does this make any sense?

For-profit insurance companies, and their shareholders earnings, are worth more than your health. Go go capitalism.

[NED funded]

Sorry, thought you were asking about the first part.

Expanded Medicaid isn't universal healthcare, not sure why you'd claim it even remotely resembles such a thing. I can't get insurance through Medicaid. I only know a few people who can. Universal healthcare means you don't even have to apply. That's the whole universal part. Everyone is covered.

Expanded Medicaid and ACA, both of those should let you get an insurance. Expanded Medicaid and ACA subsidies for poor people and ACA for people with prior conditions. Being uninsured in states that have expanded medicaid is a choice. Ask your friend why he doesn't have insurance.

[Berengil]

I'm all for cutting entitlements big time - I've been cheering that on for years. But going after Medicaid sidesteps going after the real culprit, Medicare, and does so in a reckless and cruel way. But moreover... and this is the best part, we've seen this movie before, and we know how it ends without a bipartisan political consensus.

@Skroe : You know very well that voters savage anyone who speaks of cutting ( as you've so often put it) "Grandma's pills."

So, this may well scare away a lot of his support in Congress, at least from those who would like to get re-elected.

As an aside: Your goal of "big time" entitlement cuts is reminiscent of Don Quixote tilting at windmills. It's pointless. Voters demand Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security. They will not tolerate it to be endangered. So I guess you're spending a lot of mental energy on something that has .000000000000000001% chance of happening anytime soon.

- - - Updated - - -

Japan's healthcare system is the model, but America, generally completely full of shit when it comes to Healthcare, is supremely creative in coming up with Bullshit reasons why *its special* and why it has to innovate something different. It does this rather than implement the strat of our fellow hyper-capitalist country which solved it's Healthcare crisis in 4 years in the Early 1990s.

Could you expand a bit on what you like about Japan's system?

- - - Updated - - -

For-profit insurance companies, and their shareholders earnings, are worth more than your health. Go go capitalism.

This too. " I got mine, so fck you, that's why." Good ole anarcho-capitalism.

[Edge-]

Explain. 1234

Few issues (I read your post as though you were talking about the current expansion and not a "medicaid for all" type solution, so if that's what you were getting at then feel free to ignore me!) -

1. Many states did not take the medicaid expansion, so they're in the same financial place they were before when it comes to expanding access for low income folks.

2. Even with the expansion, there are a large number of individuals/families that don't earn enough to afford health insurance but also earn too much to qualify for any subsidies.

[Sky High]

I'd feel bad for the people who voted Trump, had it not been painfully obvious that Trump stands for nothing.

[PC2]

I don't care. What are they going to do? Super-duper not vote for Trump? We just need a few thousand more anti-Trump low income voters in the right areas to turn against President Illegitimate. Little by little.

Let me explain what we're doing PrimaryColor. This actually goes to what the heart of the group i work for is about. Even if, against all odds Donald Trump makes it to 2020 as President, it's not going to take a heck of a lot to electorally make him not President starting in 2021. Just moving a few voters in the right places. Consider that Plan D.

This helps that. Trump-Russia may not get through to the deplorables, but you know what will? "He's going to go after Medicare and Social Security next!!!!" messaging. True or not true, again, turning Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania against Trump is not climbing Mount Everest. It's about getting people to believe voting for "four more years" is not in their interests.

Remember: if Trump runs in 2020, he's the Establishment.

With those low income voters and a candidate like Bernie Sanders maybe you can beat Trump in 2020.

[NED funded]

Few issues (I read your post as though you were talking about the current expansion and not a "medicaid for all" type solution, so if that's what you were getting at then feel free to ignore me!) -

1. Many states did not take the medicaid expansion, so they're in the same financial place they were before when it comes to expanding access for low income folks.

2. Even with the expansion, there are a large number of individuals/families that don't earn enough to afford health insurance but also earn too much to qualify for any subsidies.

1. The comment is related to states that opted in for expanded Medicaid. If you are not in one of those states, then I agree it's a bad situation.

2. Got any data on this?

[Skroe]

I believe you've discussed it in the past (the Japanese model), could you elaborate again on what are the key parts of the Japanese healthcare system we need to adopt?

Short version:
- Universal two-payer Healthcare.
- Government healthcare pays 70% of the cost.
- Patient pays 30% of the cost, fixed to a maximum percentage of their annual income.
- Hospitals are non-profits
- Medical Fees (for all services, medicines, etc) aggressively regulated by the government to keep costs low every two years.


People may be thinking "but Skroe, what's a free-market conservative doing advocating government healthcare with price controls". Well it's quite simple: exactly what is free market and conservative about saddling employers with healthcare? Exactly what is free market and conservative about creating a system whereby employees or would-be entrepreneurs are forced to stay in their current job / position because they'll lose their healthcare if they quit or go out on their own?

Forcing employers to provide healthcare completely retards free enterprise. It acts as a barrier to initiation, investment and growth. It's a barrier to entrepreneurship. it has nothing to do with "starting a company", but an employer MUST do it because the government says so.

Making the political-philosophy compromise of sharply regulated government healthcare - which has comprehensively failed to be regulated by market forces in America despite decades of trying - to on the flip side unleashing the economic potential of employers and employees unshackled from healthcare, seems like a small price to pay. Imagine a system where employees are free to move around jobs, and not prisoner because they need their insurance it provides?

And the best part is, it's far cheaper. Japan's system, which provides healthcare to all 127 million of it's citizens, costs $480 billion. They key part is the bolded part: medical fee regulation. If the US implement japan's system, it could replace Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, the VA system... combined nearly $1.6 trillion in spending, with a program that would cost about $900 billion a year.

We would in other words, have $700 billion more to play with... nearly enough to close the budget deficit twice over. With that we could rebuild infrastructure, grow the armed forces, have a big tax cut, invest in education. That's another political fight.

But we what we won't be doing is ripping ourselves off any longer with a healthcare system that is stapled together and does nothing but grow and grow and grow.

[Edge-]

2. Got any data on this?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/21/news...age-gap-texas/

Here's an article on the topic. Gotta dash out but I'll try to remember to dig up a few more when I get back.

[NED funded]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/04/21/news...age-gap-texas/

Here's an article on the topic. Gotta dash out but I'll try to remember to dig up a few more when I get back.

Texas opted out of expanded Medicaid.

[Wyrt]

Expanded Medicaid is fundamentally universal healthcare. Everyone that wants to get an insurance can get one throught it.

One of the big things with the universal system is the government is able to negotiate prices with hospitals and drug companies. This is the main reason countries with universal healthcare pay less per capita for their system than the US does.

That way you don't have to pay $300 for a bandaid at the hospital.

[Berengil]

Short version:
- Universal two-payer Healthcare.
- Government healthcare pays 70% of the cost.
- Patient pays 30% of the cost, fixed to a maximum percentage of their annual income.
- Hospitals are non-profits
- Medical Fees (for all services, medicines, etc) aggressively regulated by the government to keep costs low every two years.

Well... I wish we could get something like that, Skroe. But I'm going to go out on a limb here (not really) and say anyone who proposed that at a GOP meeting would get laughed out of the room at best.

Nonetheless, I wish you luck. I mean it.

[Skroe]

One of the big things with the universal system is the government is able to negotiate prices with hospitals and drug companies. This is the main reason countries with universal healthcare pay less per capita for their system than the US does.

That way you don't have to pay $300 for a bandaid at the hospital.

Negotiations are stupid. Telling them what they're going to charge because government is the only customer works.

America "negotiates" with it's defense contractors all the time. The F-16 growing from $20 million a fighter for a USAF F-16C in 1998 to $165 million for a single F-16IQ in 2011 (which the US bought for Iraq) is a classic American negotiation - a negotiation upward to keep Lockheed in the F-16 building industry, lest they close the plant and eliminate 3000 jobs. .

Negotiation between government and contractors in America is hamstrung by the fact that congress has put in place legal limitations on how the government can negotiate (basically, it can't). They call it "free market". It's not. It's a subsidy. It's a taxpayer funded hand out, to keep jobs in place.

[Skroe]

Well... I wish we could get something like that, Skroe. But I'm going to go out on a limb here (not really) and say anyone who proposed that at a GOP meeting would get laughed out of the room at best.

Nonetheless, I wish you luck. I mean it.

Of course, because their free enterprise cred is wafer thin. They operate purely in the realm of direct impact, not second order.

You know what the joke of it is? This is largely an American problem. Other developed countries have their issues, but the enourmous amount of bullshit on this scale, is uniquely American.

There is absolutely nothing pro-capitalism and pro-free enterprise about having employers be the one to provide healthcare.

- - - Updated - - -

Sounds good to me. Hes finally doing stuff I wanted him to when voting for him. For literally the first time. I think alot of classic conservatives are happy right now.

- - - Updated - - -



As a voter, I will be.
If he continues doing stuff like this ill most likely vote for him again even though I thought I wasnt going to.

Good for you in New York.

You know how you beat Trump electorally? You get Doris who lives 45 minutes outside Milwaukee to worry about her Medicare under Trump.

I can already see the ad:

"In the mist of rising premiums, first Billionare Trump came for their Medicaid. Medicare is next. Vote ____ and save Medicare."

That kind of campaigning? Time and time again it works. And Trump is providing the ammunition.

[JohnBrown1917]

Sounds good to me. Hes finally doing stuff I wanted him to when voting for him. For literally the first time. I think alot of classic conservatives are happy right now.

- - - Updated - - -



As a voter, I will be.
If he continues doing stuff like this ill most likely vote for him again even though I thought I wasnt going to.

I understand that position if you don't have a problem with the poor dropping like flies.

[Independent voter]

Is he giving the $800 to defense spending? I don't think we need to increase our defense budget at the moment.

[Skroe]

Is he giving the $800 to defense spending? I don't think we need to increase our defense budget at the moment.

We do, significantly, but he's not. And even then the increase should only be $150 billion over the next 5-8 years.