Why do YOU think Healthcare is a Right and not a Privilege?

[Mormolyce]

A right, in the context of this discussion, is a freedom one can exercise, without the permission of others, that cannot be taken away and is limited only by the rights of others.

But they can be taken away. Again, do you mean shouldn't?

Societies have deemed what a right is and by definition, anything that requires the permission or resources of others is not a right, as any guarantee to that extent would be a violation of the rights of others.

So rights are decided by "societies". So if I start a society to create the titty twister Tuesday right, then you agree that I have that right?

And I'm asserting that I've the right to defend myself and as such, you exercising your self-asserted right will leave you broken. As far as "proving you wrong", you exercising said right without my permission violates my right to bodily integrity and therefore your "right" is inherently invalid.

No, you do not have a right to defend yourself. I have a right to give you a titty twister every second Tuesday.

Do NOT just SAY I'm wrong. PROVE that I am.

[Mistame]

But they can be taken away. Again, do you mean shouldn't?

No, they actually can't be taken away. Rights are inherently inalienable.

So rights are decided by "societies".

Societies don't "decide" what are rights, they have decided what a "right" is, over the course of centuries, which I've already explained to you. No person, group or government can grant rights because they're inherent the moment you're born. Nor can they can take them away. If a "right" can be taken away, it is, by definition, not a right.

So if I start a society to create the titty twister Tuesday right, then you agree that I have that right?

Again, no. Because a right cannot violate the rights of others.

No, you do not have a right to defend yourself. I have a right to give you a titty twister every second Tuesday.

Do NOT just SAY I'm wrong. PROVE that I am.

I just did. The fact that your self-asserted "right" violates my rights inherently invalidates it. Stop being obtuse.

[Ghostpanther]

How is it even possible that some people can believe its a right?

Think of it this way.. if it was a right, it would mean a person trained in the medical field would have to help you for free? How is that different from slavery again?

Because if they are getting a salary from the government to provide health care to the public, they would not be slaves. :P

[Nerdgasm]

How is it even possible that some people can believe its a right?

Think of it this way.. if it was a right, it would mean a person trained in the medical field would have to help you for free? How is that different from slavery again?

Just go to anywhere where it's considered a right to see how it works. Where I live, If I decline you emergencial care I can even go to jail, not to mention lose my license.

If you are not in immediate danger then I can guide you to a public hospital/clinic. In case there's no way I can move you to a public hospital/clinic I can provide you with the necessary medical care and ask the government for reimbursement.

There are countries where you (The patient) receive treatment and the government pay the hospital/clinic for you.

[Deleted]

From a country with universal healthcare... none of this seems to be true.

Why is healthcare so much more expensive in the USA compared to other countries? The quality isn't better at least. Isn't the argument usually that in privatized healthcare the costs would be lower? But then we get cases of having to pay $3000 for an ambulance in privatized healthcare vs ~$20 in socialized healthcare.

pretty much this. How can it be, something that cost 24 euros in the rest of the world cost many many times over that in America? even when it is produced in Us. The answer is all this privatised spike up the prices.

healthcare is a Right, a basic human right. If you are ill you should be able to get help. And"able to get help" it is not when you get put so severely in dept, that is not help, that is just salt in the wound to stop it from bleeding.

[Ghostpanther]

pretty much this. How can it be, something that cost 24 euros in the rest of the world cost many many times over that in America? even when it is produced in Us. The answer is all this privatised spike up the prices.

healthcare is a Right, a basic human right. If you are ill you should be able to get help. And"able to get help" it is not when you get put so severely in dept, that is not help, that is just salt in the wound to stop it from bleeding.

Basic greed. The amount of TV adds for drugs, which those cost a lot of money to televise, is one clue how big of a industry it is here in the US.

[anyaka21]

pretty much this. How can it be, something that cost 24 euros in the rest of the world cost many many times over that in America? even when it is produced in Us. The answer is all this privatised spike up the prices.

healthcare is a Right, a basic human right. If you are ill you should be able to get help. And"able to get help" it is not when you get put so severely in dept, that is not help, that is just salt in the wound to stop it from bleeding.

That is the irony of the whole thing. The healthcare is a priveldge group always say that they don't want or shouldn't have to pay for other peoples healthcare. Well, every time they get meds because it costs 1500x the cost it does for the rest of the world, they are paying for the rest of the worlds meds. They are subsidizing the rest of the worlds universal healthcare.

[Hooked]

A right is only as good as the paper its written on.

[Deleted]

Something can be a privilege, but also a right. If you think that you are not privileged because you have freedom of speech, then take a closer look at the world and try to realize that you belong to a small section of the world, in a small section of history where this is something you have.

It is the same for Healthcare. The evolved, enlightened parts of mankind consider it an obvious right, but for most people it is a privilege. Even in the developed world, you can get better healthcare if you are wealthy, although for most countries the difference is not huge.
Aside from it being a right or not though, people must understand that healthcare for everyone, benefits everyone. A healthy population is more productive, and more likely to consume your products. A healthy population is likely to make preventive visits to the doctor, and less likely to spread diseases. Healthy people are less likely to skip on school or work. And finally, people that know they can rely on healthcare can free a portion of their mind from worries about the financial impact from circumstances outside their control.

The problem comes from the faulty perception that people take advantage of such systems. While there are those that do, this is only a very small, negligible group of people. As a very selfish person, I would much rather pay some money to the state to make sure people around me don't get sick, as that is just in my own best interest.

[oxymoronic]

Something can be a privilege, but also a right. If you think that you are not privileged because you have freedom of speech, then take a closer look at the world and try to realize that you belong to a small section of the world, in a small section of history where this is something you have.

It is the same for Healthcare. The evolved, enlightened parts of mankind consider it an obvious right, but for most people it is a privilege. Even in the developed world, you can get better healthcare if you are wealthy, although for most countries the difference is not huge.
Aside from it being a right or not though, people must understand that healthcare for everyone, benefits everyone. A healthy population is more productive, and more likely to consume your products. A healthy population is likely to make preventive visits to the doctor, and less likely to spread diseases. Healthy people are less likely to skip on school or work. And finally, people that know they can rely on healthcare can free a portion of their mind from worries about the financial impact from circumstances outside their control.

The problem comes from the faulty perception that people take advantage of such systems. While there are those that do, this is only a very small, negligible group of people. As a very selfish person, I would much rather pay some money to the state to make sure people around me don't get sick, as that is just in my own best interest.

but why call it a right when its obviously a privilege afforded to you by your government. the idea of a right in itself is bogus as fuck. you cant make others take care of you, you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to do that. its a privilege, get over it. ITS A FUCKING PRIVILEGE.

also saying the enlightened kind have this or that, ask the enlightened kind why they cant pay for their own defense? ask them why they need america to protect them every waking minute of their life. i laugh at your so called enlightened people.

[Cosmic Janitor]

but why call it a right when its obviously a privilege afforded to you by your government. the idea of a right in itself is bogus as fuck. you cant make others take care of you, you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to do that. its a privilege, get over it. ITS A FUCKING PRIVILEGE.

By your definition you have no right to live, breath or anything. Because all of these have ben just afforded to you by commen consensus. Oh wait, but that makes it actually a right.

[oxymoronic]

By your definition you have no right to live, breath or anything. Because all of these have ben just afforded to you by commen consensus. Oh wait, but that makes it actually a right.

that doesnt even make sense, i can breathe and live on my own. cmon man

[Cosmic Janitor]

that doesnt even make sense, i can breathe and live on my own. cmon man

The point was that me not sqashing your life is not a right either by your non-definition.

[oxymoronic]

The point was that me not sqashing your life is not a right either by your non-definition.

that is a law, nor a right or privilege. i dont want to be rude cause mods are overzealous but are you ok? mentally? to continue having this discussion? cause so far you have shot off your own foot and ate shit twice already.

[Cosmic Janitor]

that is a law, nor a right or privilege. i dont want to be rude cause mods are overzealous but are you ok? mentally? to continue having this discussion? cause so far you have shot off your own foot and ate shit twice already.

Well.. do you know what laws grant people? Yup, rights! But keep going, it's not exactly news that talking to you is a fruitless undertaking.

[Deleted]

Because if they are getting a salary from the government to provide health care to the public, they would not be slaves. :P

you can be a paid slave.
Indeed, it was quite common to be paid.

[Mistame]

By your definition you have no right to live, breath or anything. Because all of these have ben just afforded to you by commen consensus. Oh wait, but that makes it actually a right.

Something being "afforded to you" does not make it a right. In fact, if a government can grant something (and thus, revoke it), by definition it's a privilege, not a right, as rights are inalienable.

Well.. do you know what laws grant people? Yup, rights!

Laws protect rights, not grant them.

[Tijuana]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.

It's a bit silly to debate this. The answer depends on where you live.

A better question would be if it should or should not be a right everywhere.

I can't think of any other products or services that are universally given out for free. So, I would say no, it should not be a right. But, due to the realities on the ground in the US, I would argue the public wants us to become a nation that makes it a right. I would like it if we offered basic care free to all, and only used insurance for the big stuff like surgery, or cancer. That would get most people the care they need, and the truly poor few that could not afford the relatively cheaper catastrophe insurance, we could just give them for free like we have been doing since the 1960's.

[Vash The Stampede]

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...818-8/fulltext

Well, I'm happy that I live in a nation where people care for each other.
And we rank as number 5, just under Sweden. Two nations that most right winger would deem socialist hell holes, while themselves ending up at standing 35 :P

Teach us your ways, or actually teach our politicians.

[Jaylock]

How is it even possible that some people can believe its a right?

Think of it this way.. if it was a right, it would mean a person trained in the medical field would have to help you for free? How is that different from slavery again?

This is actually a very valid point. It would mean that Doctors would be forced to treat people for 0 pay if it came down to it.

The reason healthcare has been declining in quality in countries that have socialized healthcare is because people don't want to spend 10+ years in higher education + residency only to get out and make shit pay or be forced to treat people that cant or won't pay. Or, they don't want an earnings ceiling that their government imposes on the profession.

And don't even give me that crap that "oh most doctors don't do it for the pay." We all know that one liner is bullshit at the highest degree. They may say they "want to make a difference and want to help people" but at the end of the day, if I was only making 60k a year because it was considered a "right" in my country, I would quit that profession in a heart beat and go become a programmer or something where I can make higher earnings.