Democrats are falling for fake news about Russia

[Independent voter]

Thus based on experience i choose to dismiss most of those stories as not worth time bothering about. And i haven't been "proven wrong" because so far no public proofs of me being wrong were being presented. In every case involving "Russian meddling" we're supposed to trust that there is something secret that proves it, and no public information.

Alex Jones is a huge media star on youtube who comments on conspiracies like in your OP. Nobody takes him seriously.

Alex Jones admitted in trail that his show is fake, it's an act, like TV wrestling.

The real news in the US doesn't carry the conspiracies theories like your OP espouses.

By meddling in the Brexit, the US, Dutch and French democratic elections, Russia has painted a picture of itself that will last for generations. This will cloud every trade, every deal between Russia and honest countries with integrity for a long time.

[Orbitus]

Louise Mensch gets to that level of bullshit, though you're right that she doesn't reach its popularity.

Sorry, I don't even know who that is.

[jdbond592]

OP is so fake...

[Orbitus]

OP is so fake...

He's Russian, and likes Trump. What do you expect? He is trying to equate people posting stuff from people I am probably most of the left has never heard of to the crazies and well known people from the right. Like this Louise Mensch everyone keeps talking about in this thread? Never heard of her. But their torchbearer on the right, Alex Jones, is very well known to be posting tons of fake news.

[Destump]

By meddling in the Brexit, the US, Dutch and French democratic elections, Russia has painted a picture of itself that will last for generations. This will cloud every trade, every deal between Russia and honest countries with integrity for a long time.

true, they are almost as bad as the US now. Almost.

[Crispin]

In short:

Theese few stories noone has heard of are fake, so most of the news you read about Russia might very well be fake! Regards the factory in sct. petersbourg!

[Shalcker]

Republicans had eight years and all they found was a birth certification.
Meanwhile we have an old FBI-director that was unanimously picked to look into Trump.

No difference then. Republicans had their Birth Certificate and Benghazi, Democrats will have their "his taxes" and "Russia!!!". For eight years. Same results should be expected.

When you hear voices about impeachment on both sides it might be time to shut the fuck up.

People were talking about such possibility from day one after Trump being elected. Thousands ways it can fail.

In half a year you'll be deleting your post history and deny that you ever supported Trump anyway.

Why would i? It's not like i "support" Trump; i just still think he is better option out of two shitty options given all things considered.

When more facts come out i can change my opinion, just like i did on "Russian soldiers in Donbass". So far facts are not available.

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In short:

Theese few stories noone has heard of are fake, so most of the news you read about Russia might very well be fake! Regards the factory in sct. petersbourg!

Well, the story about Russian media being in Trump-Lavrov meeting is fake too.

Btw, here are people, including people who posted IN THIS VERY THREAD, quoting Schindler mentioned in article (20commitee)

[Cthulhu 2020]

When more facts come out i can change my opinion,

According to right wingers, changing your opinion once when more facts come to light is called "flip flopping".

LOL

[Netherspark]

There are fake news on both sides? Color me shocked!

And both come from the same place.

[Shalcker]

According to right wingers, changing your opinion once when more facts come to light is called "flip flopping".

LOL

That's their problem, not mine. I'm more of "expropriate wealth for equality" guy.

[Masark]

Alex Jones admitted in trail that his show is fake, it's an act, like TV wrestling.

He claimed in trial that is was an act.

The judge didn't buy it and he no longer has custody of the children.

[Orbitus]

No difference then. Republicans had their Birth Certificate and Benghazi, Democrats will have their "his taxes" and "Russia!!!". For eight years. Same results should be expected.

People were talking about such possibility from day one after Trump being elected. Thousands ways it can fail.

Why would i? It's not like i "support" Trump; i just still think he is better option out of two shitty options given all things considered.

When more facts come out i can change my opinion, just like i did on "Russian soldiers in Donbass". So far facts are not available.

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Well, the story about Russian media being in Trump-Lavrov meeting is fake too.

Btw, here are people, including people who posted IN THIS VERY THREAD, quoting Schindler mentioned in article (20commitee)

You see the bolded part isn't even fucking CLOSE to being the same. The birth certificate and Benghazi had zero evidence to back them up. While we KNOW he has financial ties to Russia because he has loans and shit from Russian banks that are owned by Putin. And the rest of the Russian "nonsense" is heating up. Flynn, Manafort, Tillerson, Page, Kushner are all subjects of investigations and some have even been subpoenaed to give up their documents and even Kushner is the subject of a even more in depth investigation.

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He claimed in trial that is was an act.

The judge didn't buy it and he no longer has custody of the children.

Good, no one that fucking insane should be allowed kids. Not even visitation rights.

[Glorious Leader]

We disagree here.


In fact the one fueling suspicion isn't Trump



.

Except for when he tweets about james comey better not.hope any tapes exists. That does indeed fuel.suspicion.

[Felya]

Please quote what you're talking about. I see no mentions of any "articles" in my replies in this thread.

You bet:

Did you actually read what i wrote? FBI is investigating; "Democrat team" calls everything from those investigations and elsewhere dredged up by media as "(possible) proof of collusion with Russa".

Oops?

Suspicion itself isn't "partisan". Following the steps beyond it is. Partisanship is going from suspicion to "...and then Trump is put in PRISON! In Orange Jumpsuit!" and seeing it as desirable outcome while tuning out all bad stuff that would happen to US internal affairs and world standing should that actually come to pass.

That's not what the media, nor your own OP is doing. Trump ran on a campaign of 'jail Hillary', but random people on the forum or twitter cannot say jail Trump? To this day, you will find every Trump thread filled with comments on his Hillary should be jailed. This wasn't coming from just random people, but the guy who would become president. It is absolutely abhorrent that you see issue with random people, but not the actual president doing the same...

Want people to stop calling for Trump to be in jail? Tell Trump to stop saying all of his opponents are unAmericans who are conspiring against him. Tell Trump to stop saying he was wiretapped by Obama, because what the president of the US has to say carries far more levity than media or random forum/twitter posters.

In short, your priorities are fucked... the people are not the problem...

We disagree here.

Than you are living in fantasy land. His taxes would not be an issue if he revealed them. His actions wouldn't carry as much levity towards his business, if he put his business in a blind trust. Those are objectively things that would make people's concerns of him lessen. It would let you counter assertions playing on Trump's refusal to release his tax returns and the objective conflict of interest in maintaining his position at his corporation, as fake news... your disagreement here highlights your blindness to what is happening...

In fact the one fueling suspicion isn't Trump. It is those people who cast every Trump's remark, decision, tweet, or interview as "suspicious", and those people who agree with them.

Yeah, the problem is the scrutiny, not the cause? Absurd...

And when they push that hard obviously Trump will push back (with firings and pointed questions to his options available). And sorry, President actually legally has many options that are only limited by custom ("we don't usually do that") rather then law ("we can actually do that")... as far as i see most likely outcome here is Trump eventually winning by actually jailing leakers (and journalists, for good measure). And he'll be legal in doing that.

Trump is not pushing back. Pushing back is to support the investigation. It's to become more transparent. Refusing to do so, is exactly what is causing it. You can blame everyone else all you like, but the buck stops at the president.

Oh and by the way, Trump would need to change some laws to make jailing journalists "for good measure" legal. It would also increase his scrutiny, not lessen it. This isn't Russia, our media is not state controlled. Trump blaming the west and Americans while doing it, as Putin does, won't fly well here... well... for long...

And obviously it'll be cast as "attack on democracy/free media", but he'll feel justified doing it and so he'll still do it.

Which makes every negative thing said about Trump true.

Not "shut up", but rather stop "WRITING IN CAPS"; see people replying with them to me in this thread.

Yet, I didn't, but you still replied talking about it, instead of adressing my point. It makes your complaining seem more like a celebration, because now you can point at someone and pretend it represents the whole. Instead of... you know... using me... who didn't use caps and is giving you the discourse you pretend to want.

[Adam Jensen]

Fake news?

If so, then let it play its course. If Trump is innocent, the FBI will exonerate him.

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In fact the one fueling suspicion isn't Trump. It is those people who cast every Trump's remark, decision, tweet, or interview as "suspicious", and those people who agree with them.

And when they push that hard obviously Trump will push back (with firings and pointed questions to his options available). And sorry, President actually legally has many options that are only limited by custom ("we don't usually do that") rather then law ("we can actually do that")... as far as i see most likely outcome here is Trump eventually winning by actually jailing leakers (and journalists, for good measure). And he'll be legal in doing that.

Because he does things that look and act shady.

If he were intelligent, he'd just smile and say "the FBI will uncover the truth" and let the investigation take its course, fully confident that he's done nothing wrong.

Instead, he . . . gives secrets to the Russians*, fires Director Comey, complains about losing Flynn and continues to defend the man, rants on twitter about being subjected to the "worst witch hunt ever" and then complains to graduates about being so persecuted.

Is suspicion truth? No. Does this mean he's guilty? No.

But he certainty acts like he is. He's like a five year old, when his mother finds the cookie jar smashed on the floor. And there are crumbs on his lips.

*Which yes, is technically his right, I'm just saying that it looks suspicious.

[Gref]

shalcker is just a happy saudi guy by his hero trumps visit. with that sweet arms deal. yummy.

[Sky High]

your'e right, the Dems/left should focusing on Trump-Erdogan instead of the Russia thing. considering Flynn was ousted as a foreign agent passing along policy suggestions they paid him to say. combine that with Trump's comments on firing Comey and you my friend have a solid case for impeachment for obstruction of justice, juuuuuust waiting to happen.

[Shalcker]

You see the bolded part isn't even fucking CLOSE to being the same. The birth certificate and Benghazi had zero evidence to back them up.

No difference again then. Benghazi had lots of "reasonable suspicions". Reasonable from Republican side, obviously. Most Democrats always called it witch hunt (just like Trump calls his investigations witch hunt now).

While we KNOW he has financial ties to Russia because he has loans and shit from Russian banks that are owned by Putin.

Not every Russian bank is owned by Putin, btw. He has some "pet" banks that do his bidding and the rest can operate as they like in search for profits. So "reasonability of suspicion" depends a lot on which banks exactly are involved.

If it is Alfa Bank, for example, then it would be laughable to think that way.

And the rest of the Russian "nonsense" is heating up. Flynn, Manafort, Tillerson, Page, Kushner are all subjects of investigations and some have even been subpoenaed to give up their documents and even Kushner is the subject of a even more in depth investigation.

Yeah, so did Clinton and her associates. They even asked for immunity, just like Flynn! Clearly they thought they were guilty! And they even found out about her email server in the process! Years after Clinton stopped being Secretary of State.

No persecution in the end.

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That's not what the media, nor your own OP is doing. Trump ran on a campaign of 'jail Hillary', but random people on the forum or twitter cannot say jail Trump? To this day, you will find every Trump thread filled with comments on his Hillary should be jailed. This wasn't coming from just random people, but the guy who would become president. It is absolutely abhorrent that you see issue with random people, but not the actual president doing the same...

Of course you can say that. But saying "Republicans were wrong in their witch hunts, our witch hunts are just and true" while having no facts at hand (just lots of "possibilities") means either you're blind to your partisan bias or you embrace it and see it as good thing.

I don't see it as a good thing. Not to the point of embracing every source that fits your preferred narrative, no matter how far fetched - which is Vox article is about.

Want people to stop calling for Trump to be in jail? Tell Trump to stop saying all of his opponents are unAmericans who are conspiring against him. Tell Trump to stop saying he was wiretapped by Obama, because what the president of the US has to say carries far more levity than media or random forum/twitter posters.

He aren't going to stop. And you aren't going to stop him by heated forum postings. Nor are you going to convince anyone in "Trump camp" that way - or "Independents", for that matter, who are constantly attacked as being pro-Trump here if they don't agree with every "latest outrage".

In short, your priorities are fucked... the people are not the problem...

People are just as much of the problem as Trump.

Than you are living in fantasy land. His taxes would not be an issue if he revealed them.

Yeah, yeah, and Hillary's actions wouldn't be an issue if she wouldn't BleachBit server after being subpoenaed. Yet she did. Clearly she thought she was guilty to do that, right? All suspicions were reasonable, right?

...but in the end, nothing happened.

His actions wouldn't carry as much levity towards his business, if he put his business in a blind trust.

As far as i see media would just switch to other things. Like him actually doing what he promised on campaign trail. You know, Wall, taxes, "muslim ban" and so on, there are lots of "dissonance with Democrat's proclaimed values" as far as Trump is concerned to keep going. Enough for years of manufactured outrage. Neither side seems to be in mood to reconcile, and Republicans actually hold majority so they have no incentive to have Democrats on board...

And as far as i understand "blind trust" is just a custom, not an actual law. Trump only seems to care about being legal, not about customs. See his lawyers looking at impeachment possibilities to see what he can legally do to hinder them.

Those are objectively things that would make people's concerns of him lessen. It would let you counter assertions playing on Trump's refusal to release his tax returns and the objective conflict of interest in maintaining his position at his corporation, as fake news... your disagreement here highlights your blindness to what is happening...

I don't see how anything would be different if he did, so he has absolutely no incentives to do what you want.

Yeah, the problem is the scrutiny, not the cause? Absurd...

Yep, that's my opinion and i stick by it. This scrutiny is in fact as useful as Clinton's investigations - that is, only seems useful to those with partisan blinders.

Trump is not pushing back. Pushing back is to support the investigation. It's to become more transparent. Refusing to do so, is exactly what is causing it. You can blame everyone else all you like, but the buck stops at the president.

He did offer concessions - like firing Flynn when he lied about his "talks with Kislyak". Witch hunts only intensified.

Oh and by the way, Trump would need to change some laws to make jailing journalists "for good measure" legal. It would also increase his scrutiny, not lessen it. This isn't Russia, our media is not state controlled. Trump blaming the west and Americans while doing it, as Putin does, won't fly well here... well... for long...

Oh really? I can easily see Republicans going "those witch hunts are ridiculous and those leaks are treasonous and damaging to our world standing! Lock them up!!!" ...in fact, some did say that.

Which makes every negative thing said about Trump true.

Nope, it doesn't. Because there was lots of stuff said about him that is obviously not true. Like "golden shower tapes".

Yet, I didn't, but you still replied talking about it, instead of adressing my point. It makes your complaining seem more like a celebration, because now you can point at someone and pretend it represents the whole. Instead of... you know... using me... who didn't use caps and is giving you the discourse you pretend to want.

Again you're going with generalizations. This thread is about people CAPSING and falling for fakes, not about you. We can have more reasonable discussion with you.

Hopefully.

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Because he does things that look and act shady.
If he were intelligent, he'd just smile and say "the FBI will uncover the truth" and let the investigation take its course, fully confident that he's done nothing wrong.

Well, none of people involved in Presidential election were that intelligent or spotless. Hillary definitely didn't feel that way, and i'm sure neither is Trump; they just didn't do "anything out of ordinary". Ordinary corruption, ordinary tax evasion, ordinary mishandling of state secrets, ordinary "looking the other way" on possibly shady dealings of their associates, ordinary 'releasing only what was subpoenaed and deleting the rest with no recovery options' (and not even everything that would actually fall under it as it was found out later)...

[Crispin]

No difference then. Republicans had their Birth Certificate and Benghazi, Democrats will have their "his taxes" and "Russia!!!". For eight years. Same results should be expected.

lol what the fuck, so you take the last few months and predict that it's all we'll see the next 4 years? Was there a special investigation into Obama's certificate? Trump had to fire Flynn for his Russian contacts, you're comparing stupid conspiracy theories with a situation where there's evidence of contact between Trumps team and Russia, Flynn was fired because of it, do you not read any news at all?

I know you'll try hard to sell this stupid narrative because you're paid to do so, but you'll have more luck pusing some chemtrails made Trump do it nonsense than this, sorry but we're not as naive as some of your countrymen, who'll take whatever BS story that fits their little bubble.

[Shalcker]

lol what the fuck, so you take the last few months and predict that it's all we'll see the next 4 years? Was there a special investigation into Obama's certificate? Trump had to fire Flynn for his Russian contacts, you're comparing stupid conspiracy theories with a situation where there's evidence of contact between Trumps team and Russia, Flynn was fired because of it, do you not read any news at all?

Yep, it's easy to see what we'll see in the next 4 years because this play have been played before for years and was met with approval, so now it's time for "Democrat edition" of same thing, met with similar approval in different audience.

In this analogy "birth certificate" is "taxes" (so no special persecutor), while Clinton is "Russian contacts". And there certainly were multiple calls for special prosecutors for her.

Calls that were denied! While Trump actually agreed to special prosecutor. Already more transparent then Democrats.


Versions of what got Flynn fired changed all the time. Obviously you've chosen the one you like more.

I know you'll try hard to sell this stupid narrative because you're paid to do so, but you'll have more luck pusing some chemtrails made Trump do it nonsense than this, sorry but we're not as naive as some of your countrymen, who'll take whatever BS story that fits their little bubble.

From outside you look exactly the same to me.