The sunwalkers and the sun

[Piamonte]

So this may seem as a dumb question but what is the sun made of in wow. Thanks to chronicles we now know every possible source of power that exists un the wow universe, so we have few possibilities:
A) the sun is made of the element of fire
B) the sun is made of arcane Magic, like a huge fire spell that last for Ever
C) the sun is made of the Light

All three are possible, but what are the implications for the sunwalkers?? They count as paladins after all, sunwalkers reside in the paladín class Hall. So considering this and what is stated in chronicles can we safely assume the sun is an everlasting source of the Light??

[Kyux]

Personally, I think that the sun in WoW is the same as it is for us. It's a giant ball of fire. I've always assumed that our physics and stuff applies just the same unless the contrary is stated. So, yeah it's a giant ball of elemental fire. But because it's not on Azeroth it isn't controlled by any elementals/an Elemental Lord. Also, it's a simple planet and just has fire unlike Azeroth.

As for the Tauren, I think they worship the same 'Light' as the humans do but use the sun for their imagery of it. I think their practices may be different, and they may think they are worshiping the giant ball of fire, but they are really worshiping the same force/entity as the humans.

I think that the sun is a near-everlasting source of physical light (like visible light, not the magic) but will eventually die like our own sun. Also, I've always thought that magic sources were all unlimited? Is that not correct? Like we're not going to run out of light/fel/arcane anytime at all, are we?

[Aquamonkey]

Sunwalkers and tauren priests use the Light. It's just that the focus of their belief is on An'she, who represents Azeroth's sun. They aren't literally using sunlight or solar power. The Thalasian elves worshiped the sun as well, but they didn't use it as a focus for the Light.

Rajh is the Construct of the Sun and actually uses sun-based power, which is more like fire.

Personally, I think that the sun in WoW is the same as it is for us. It's a giant ball of fire. I've always assumed that our physics and stuff applies just the same unless the contrary is stated. So, yeah it's a giant ball of elemental fire. But because it's not on Azeroth it isn't controlled by any elementals/an Elemental Lord. Also, it's a simple planet and just has fire unlike Azeroth.

The Sun IRL isn't a ball of fire. It's not a planet.

If Azeroth's sun were elemental fire, it would have elemental spirits just like everything else.

[caelestum]

I guess that the Light being an element on his own we are able to assume that the Sunwalkers drawn their powers from the purest source of it.

So what's the difference between a Fire elemental light and the Suns light, well I suppose that all the stars in the universe are pure balls of energy (It may be an amalgamation of Nature, Light and Arcane energy) since are cosmic bodies that came from the clash between the Light and the Void.

So Azeroth's sun is a pure ball of energy that radiates Pure Light but other casters can drawn energy from it like the druids when casting Solar magic (Nature) or when casting Starfall or Starsurge (Arcane).

the Sunwell was also a source of pure energy and now that it has been cleansed thanks to M'urus heart it radiates Pure Light, So Belfs can drawn Light energy from it.

Thats how I see it.

[apepi]

Sunwalkers and tauren priests use the Light. It's just that the focus of their belief is on An'she, who represents Azeroth's sun. They aren't literally using sunlight or solar power. The Thalasian elves worshiped the sun as well, but they didn't use it as a focus for the Light.

Rajh is the Construct of the Sun and actually uses sun-based power, which is more like fire.


The Sun IRL isn't a ball of fire. It's not a planet.

If Azeroth's sun were elemental fire, it would have elemental spirits just like everything else.

I have always thought that Elune is an old god trapped in the moon, which is why druids/night elves use moon powers.

[Wildmoon]

I think sunwalkers don't actuallly use the energy of the sun. It's just a symbol for them. They use the light. Druids are the ones who use the energy emitted by the sun. The moon of Azeroth is likely different from the real moon in the way that it can emit its own energy. Druids can also manipulate that energy.

[Kyux]

The Sun IRL isn't a ball of fire. It's not a planet.

If Azeroth's sun were elemental fire, it would have elemental spirits just like everything else.

Totally correct on the sun point, I didn't meant to dispute that, just explained it badly.
As for the elementals, if they did exist on a star/sun then wouldn't it not matter at all and be as if they didn't because they can't do anything? My point is that it wouldn't matter either way.

[Aucald]

I think the Sun (in its form as An'she) is more or less an abstract symbol the Sunwalkers use to represent or incarnate the Light in their philosophies - much in the way the Priestesses and Priests of the Moon use Elune but still channel the power of the Light. On a more prosaic level I also think in the Warcraft universe that the act of connecting or communing with a deity also resonates with the concepts of unity and oneness that the Light represents, and that the yearning for the Priesthood of Elune or the Sunwalkers to touch something with a greater scope than themselves puts them on a wavelength conducive to interacting and channeling Light energies.

[Wildmoon]

I think the Sun (in its form as An'she) is more or less an abstract symbol the Sunwalkers use to represent or incarnate the Light in their philosophies - much in the way the Priestesses and Priests of the Moon use Elune but still channel the power of the Light. On a more prosaic level I also think in the Warcraft universe that the act of connecting or communing with a deity also resonates with the concepts of unity and oneness that the Light represents, and that the yearning for the Priesthood of Elune or the Sunwalkers to touch something with a greater scope than themselves puts them on a wavelength conducive to interacting and channeling Light energies.

The thing is the power of Elune is real in the case of priestesses of the moon, while An'she's existence is in doubt.

[Aucald]

The thing is the power of Elune is real in the case of priestesses of the moon, while An'she's existence is in doubt.

For purposes of the Light I don't think that actually makes a difference - the act of believing itself, and connecting oneself to a greater scope, is the fundamental mechanism that enables one to channel the Light. While we know *something* exists in the person of Elune we don't yet have any inkling of what it actually is - only that it is connected to the Light, may have created or is at least related to the Naaru, and can perform feats so far unrivaled by other beings connected to the Light.

[Super Kami Dende]

Sunwalkers and tauren priests use the Light. It's just that the focus of their belief is on An'she, who represents Azeroth's sun. They aren't literally using sunlight or solar power. The Thalasian elves worshiped the sun as well, but they didn't use it as a focus for the Light.

Isn't that literally what the Sunwell was though? A font of the Sun's Power which was light?

[Wildmoon]

For purposes of the Light I don't think that actually makes a difference - the act of believing itself, and connecting oneself to a greater scope, is the fundamental mechanism that enables one to channel the Light. While we know *something* exists in the person of Elune we don't yet have any inkling of what it actually is - only that it is connected to the Light, may have created or is at least related to the Naaru, and can perform feats so far unrivaled by other beings connected to the Light.

It actually makes a difference because the power that is called down is kinda different. Elune doesn't seem to be limited to the light. If it works that way then all faith-based discipline would all go toward the light. What you actually worship matters.

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Isn't that literally what the Sunwell was though? A font of the Sun's Power which was light?

It had nothing to do with the light before Velen did it.

[Super Kami Dende]

I think the Sun (in its form as An'she) is more or less an abstract symbol the Sunwalkers use to represent or incarnate the Light in their philosophies - much in the way the Priestesses and Priests of the Moon use Elune but still channel the power of the Light. On a more prosaic level I also think in the Warcraft universe that the act of connecting or communing with a deity also resonates with the concepts of unity and oneness that the Light represents, and that the yearning for the Priesthood of Elune or the Sunwalkers to touch something with a greater scope than themselves puts them on a wavelength conducive to interacting and channeling Light energies.

In Ysera's death though the Moon is literally used.

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It had nothing to do with the light before Velen did it.

OH right it was Arcane before hand.

[Aucald]

In Ysera's death though the Moon is literally used.

In Ysera's death I assume Elune is acting directly to intercede, though its use of the moon might've been for the benefit of the assembled Night Elves and their joint faiths. Either that or Elune might literally dwell there in some fashion.

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It actually makes a difference because the power that is called down is kinda different. Elune doesn't seem to be limited to the light. If it works that way then all faith-based discipline would all go toward the light. What you actually worship matters.

I am not so sure on that score. The power could be different because it is refracted through a different cultural lens, but all the abilities granted by the Light share pretty common themes and motifs. The Night Elves get an uneven mix of Light and Arcane influences as part and parcel of their nature and history - having strong and remaining connections to the Arcane themselves. Tauren would have a similar mix of Light and natural themes befitting their society, and humans might take a more mechanistic approach befitting their natures (which is echoed in part by their more philosophical approach to the use of the Light).

[Wildmoon]

I am not so sure on that score. The power could be different because it is refracted through a different cultural lens, but all the abilities granted by the Light share pretty common themes and motifs. The Night Elves get an uneven mix of Light and Arcane influences as part and parcel of their nature and history - having strong and remaining connections to the Arcane themselves. Tauren would have a similar mix of Light and natural themes befitting their society, and humans might take a more mechanistic approach befitting their natures (which is echoed in part by their more philosophical approach to the use of the Light).

I don't think cultures could in any way affect the essences of the fundamental forces of the universe you draw form. Arcane could not be drawn by same way you draw the light. You don't accidentally draw arcane and the light simulteneously because you are born a night elf. It's like saying our cultures affect the laws oh physics.

The priestesses of the moon may use the traditional light through faith-based discipline but Elune certain gave them her power on occasions. It's the only sensible way to explain Tyrande's myraid forms of star-based power.

There's another way to draw the power of the sun and the moon which is through the technical methods of Druidism taught by Cenarius.

[Aucald]

I don't think cultures could in any way affect the essences of the fundamental forces of the universe you draw form. Arcane could not be drawn by same way you draw the light. You don't accidentally draw arcane and the light simulteneously because you are born a night elf. It's like saying our cultures affect the laws oh physics.

The priestesses of the moon may use the traditional light through faith-based discipline but Elune certain gave them her power on occasions. It's the only sensible way to explain Tyrande's myraid forms of star-based power.

I don't think magic and physics function as 1:1 analogs, magic incorporates such elements as will, intent, emotional state, and various other personal factors when its effects are shaped. I would hazard that cultural differences would also have their hand in changing the shape of how magic works, as well as different doctrines of study (e.g. differences between the Highborne Mages and let's say those of Dalaran). I think the star-based techniques of the Priestesses of the Elune are particular uses of Arcane magic, sanctified by their strong associations with Night Elven religious mysticism. In this case, the Light-based powers stem from their ardent belief in Elune and the greater connection to the Light, but their specific uses of the Arcane derive from their own power - just attributed to their faith in the aforementioned religious trappings. I can't think of any time when Elune has directly interceded that its power wasn't represented in terms of the Light (e.g. protective barriers, healing magic, promoting peace, etc. etc.)

[Wildmoon]

I don't think magic and physics function as 1:1 analogs, magic incorporates such elements as will, intent, emotional state, and various other personal factors when its effects are shaped. I would hazard that cultural differences would also have their hand in changing the shape of how magic works, as well as different doctrines of study (e.g. differences between the Highborne Mages and let's say those of Dalaran). I think the star-based techniques of the Priestesses of the Elune are particular uses of Arcane magic, sanctified by their strong associations with Night Elven religious mysticism. In this case, the Light-based powers stem from their ardent belief in Elune and the greater connection to the Light, but their specific uses of the Arcane derive from their own power - just attributed to their faith in the aforementioned religious trappings. I can't think of any time when Elune has directly interceded that its power wasn't represented in terms of the Light (e.g. protective barriers, healing magic, promoting peace, etc. etc.)

Changing the shape, yes but I don't think it can affect the essences. You may change the shape of a fireball to match your cultural values and such but it's still the very same magic in essence.

We also can't really say that Elune has never interceded that wasn't represented inthe form of the light because when priestesses of the moon use their power, it's always prayers for Elune and they have used star-based power on many occassions. This means that we don't know when Elune has a hand and when she does not unless it's the obvious one like Ysera's death.

The arcane power of the priestesses also can't be their own techniques because they have never been trained to manipulate such energy. Arcane magic has never been portrayed to wielded through faith. It requires specific methods of accessing. Tyrande has never in her life trained as a sorcerer.

Elune may be just that a powerful being on the same level as the titans who wields myraids form of power including Light,Arcane,Nature.etc ,so she can give them to her worshippers.

[Aucald]

Changing the shape, yes but I don't think it can affect the essences. You may change the shape of a fireball to match your cultural values and such but it's still the very same magic in essence.

We also can't really say that Elune has never interceded that wasn't represented inthe form of the light because when priestesses of the moon use their power, it's always prayers for Elune and they have used star-based power on many occassions. This means that we don't know when Elune has a hand and when she does not unless it's the obvious one like Ysera's death.

The arcane power of the priestesses also can't be their own techniques because they have never been trained to manipulate such energy. Arcane magic has never been portrayed to wielded through faith. It requires specific methods of accessing. Tyrande has never in her life trained as a sorcerer.

Elune may be just that a powerful being on the same level as the titans who wields myraids form of power including Light,Arcane,Nature.etc ,so she can give them to her worshippers.

I would imagine that prior to the Highborne split the Priestesses of the Moon likely had some training in the Arcane (it was a cornerstone of Kaldorei society after all), it would be easy for them to dovetail these into their more spiritual practices, and even preserve them after their cultural reformation following the War of the Ancients given the high stature the Priesthood still enjoyed. Likely they attribute these magics back to the Elune in the same way they do their more Light-aligned powers, both in viewing themselves as Elune's favored and using them to act in Elune's name for Elune's purposes insofar as they understand them.

In terms to Elune's portrayal of power I am only speaking of the direct intercessions of Elune we know of, of course - her more secretive intercessions, if they exist, can't really be explored because we don't know anything about them. So too the nature of Elune as an entity is similarly unknown, it's never been one to reveal itself save in extremes, and even then it operates in a passive and shrouded manner that doesn't require open revelation.

[Wildmoon]

I would imagine that prior to the Highborne split the Priestesses of the Moon likely had some training in the Arcane (it was a cornerstone of Kaldorei society after all), it would be easy for them to dovetail these into their more spiritual practices, and even preserve them after their cultural reformation following the War of the Ancients given the high stature the Priesthood still enjoyed. Likely they attribute these magics back to the Elune in the same way they do their more Light-aligned powers, both in viewing themselves as Elune's favored and using them to act in Elune's name for Elune's purposes insofar as they understand them.

I would be reluctant to say that just because arcane was a cornerstone of the society, the priestess order must have adopted the training. A lot of people in the Kaldorie society back then did not train in arcane magic. Also, a spell like starfall is not something I would imagine someone with rudimentary training using.

[huth]

It actually makes a difference because the power that is called down is kinda different. Elune doesn't seem to be limited to the light. If it works that way then all faith-based discipline would all go toward the light. What you actually worship matters.

I agree, in a way. It matters, but the effect comes from the belief itself, rather than any outside agent. Basically, your belief shapes the Light, so what you get depends on what you think you should get. This would also explain why you need faith to use it: If you don't belief you can use the Light, that's precisely what happens.