The story is putting off people wanting to try WoW

[Nurvus]

You couldn't just turn the clock back and put the old, pre-80 zones, back the way they were, it would cause a huge amount of turmoil and would probably be even worse than just leaving them as they are now. That is before you get to adding new content in to those zones as you suggest.

Just to put it out there. I'm not particularly nostalgic. This is not an appeal to "bring back the good old stuff" or anything. I simply think Blizzard shouldn't throw their work away.

The pre-cata azeroth content isn't 100% outdated/incompatible.
Likewise, the world itself isn't 100% incompatible with flying. Some zones can be "copy-pasted" from post-cataclysm.
So, again, it's not "from scratch".
And the "running out of content" and "nowhere to go" was before XP was buffed.
You now easily outlevel a zone before you finish 50% of it.

Another thing is that it would basically invalidate all content in the 1-60 zones once you had moved on to Outland. The 1-60 pre-Cata zones would all dissapear long before you got to see all of the content their and when you returned, what business would you have questing in a zone like the Barrens or STV.

Blizzard could simply add a way to visit pre-cata azeroth post level 80, possibly downleveled accordingly.
It's part of my "full" suggestion. I simply forgot to mention it.
Again, this system would stretch into the future, and could even become a way to allow Blizzard to reward you with achievements/loot that only makes sense while the content is "current", by requiring you to do it at the appropriate level.
Imagine Blizzard enabling you to acquire the Undying/Immortal achievement in Naxxramas by requiring you to be downleveled to 80 with iLevel cap.

It would make WoW feel like an evolving experience WHILE playing.
You'd go to Scarlet Monastery pre-cata and find the old set of dungeons/enemies, and then post-cata you'd find the new one.
Same thing for other dungeons.

[Exotath]

If people really care they'll read the books or go online and google it. I think the number of people this impacts is extremely small.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Honestly the biggest thing is how dated WoW is in general. From the viewpoint of someone who hasnt tried it, would you rather play something that looks like this
*snip*

or this?
*snip*



I only chose FFXIV since, being an MMO with a monthly subscription, its likely the closest comparison.

You compare some lame ass female undead caster where half the armor doesn't exist with a dark knight, a full plate tank with 2h weapon. At least pull up a DK in T19, but that would probably not make your point as well..

[LanceOmikron]

I think the story is half the fun of Warcraft, personally. The only time they really made a huge blunder with it was WoD (I just pretend that the events of that entire expansion were a weird fever dream).

[Killadrix]

I'm just really curious where the OP is getting the idea that people are trying WoW, and saying, "Ehh, something doesn't really seem to make sense here from a story perspective - fuck this, I'm out."

[Flurryfang]

I do enjoy 1-60 story but as you say it's the 60-80 that's a clusterfuck.

The main problem is simply, that i can't see a way for Blizzard to fix this issue without using insane amounts of manhours on it. It is natural problem that comes with each expansion and having to update the entire world to the current story would only get harder and harder.

[melodramocracy]

The issue with 1-60 now is that it more or less jumps right to Cataclysm for its conclusion. A player has zero idea why he's going to Outland or Northrend for that matter, if he / she focuses entirely on what's presented in-game.

[Animalhouse]

I have played since vanilla so it is really hard for me to see the game from a new players perspective. As a matter of fact, I have not quested through the revamped Azeroth since I had almost all classes at higher level when Cata launched...except my mage, I just leveled him via chain running dungeons (this also causes another disconnect for new players).
I first noticed the poor story presentation when I tried to get my son to start playing who then got his best friend playing. Things were going ok for them at the start and I encouraged and helped as much as I could but these kids were used to proper story telling from games like Skyrim. The voice acting in Skyrim goes a long way to set the tempo unlike WoW's wall of text where it is just easier to accept the quest and look for the objectives on the map. Vanilla and TBC got away with this since you had to read the quests carefully to complete them since there was no map help. Also, as I said the LFD tool has now taken most players out of azeroth and the entire leveling tempo is in the trash compared to what it once was. Kids these days just don't have time for story telling the way WoW presents itself in early content. Newer expansions do a much better job with voice acting and cut scenes but getting players there is the hard part.
My son is an avid reader and I purchased him almost all WoW lore books and he has read every one (he is now my lore adviser). This is been HUGE in getting him to come back for legion and he now plays every day. His friend knows nothing about lore and he started at the end of WoD and quit shortly after legion. He has no desire to come back because he said he does not like the story. I can understand be cause it is all over the fing place!!! Blizz had to come out with the chronicles just to clean up their ugly mess. Also..the movie (which I love btw) does not follow lore and changes key elements like Khadgars relationship with Midivh, Thralls parents assassination, Thralls discovery (they made him Moses wtf)...etc.
Honestly, story IS a big deal and most of us like the basic premise of WoW but the story is an absolute train wreck.

[Segus1992]

MMORPG. Most people tend to not give a fuck.

FFXIV is the only one to my knowledge that's done it 'right', and even then half of us don't care, like I didn't. WAY too many fucking cutscenes for me. If it was a single player game, maybe, sure, but not an online MMO.

online massively multiplayer online.

On topic, can't people accept that there's no one single reason people don't play a game? It's really not that difficult to grasp.

[Flurryfang]

Honestly the biggest thing is how dated WoW is in general. From the viewpoint of someone who hasnt tried it, would you rather play something that looks like this


or this?




I only chose FFXIV since, being an MMO with a monthly subscription, its likely the closest comparison.

Well, some are actually totally turned off by the realistisc look. Games like Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls online and many of the asian MMOs have tried to make their game look mostly realistic, but it ends up creating an entirely different feel then the cartoonish worlds of Warcraft and Wildstar. It is very hard to improve on that style without also completly removing alot of its more charming aspects.

So i don't really think graphics have alot to do with, but more style. I personally prefer the cartoonish style of Warcraft and Wildstar, because i feel like i am playing a game and not a life-simulater. Also, the higher graphics you put out in an MMO, the more the mistakes and limits of the game engines shows out. In WOW, it is kind of okay, that armors clips and hair going inside cloaks, but in FFIXV it becomes an eyesore if stuff like that is kept in.

[Deleted]

Because you decided that you spoke for new players.
You made the judgement that it was putting those players off, when speaking only of your own experience with it.

Commenting on it being a mess is fine, but speaking for others was not.
We should ask them, before deciding that because we dont like something, that they must not.

Again I specifically said new players have told me their opinion

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You compare some lame ass female undead caster where half the armor doesn't exist with a dark knight, a full plate tank with 2h weapon. At least pull up a DK in T19, but that would probably not make your point as well..

The point remains, WoW looks dated compared to the competition

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I'm just really curious where the OP is getting the idea that people are trying WoW, and saying, "Ehh, something doesn't really seem to make sense here from a story perspective - fuck this, I'm out."

Because a lot of my friends play RPGs for the story (myself included) and if the story doesn't make sense or grip you there's little point... Gameplay wise WoW isn't exactly unique or different to the competition

[Logwyn]

I agree with the people who say the Cataclysm really messes with things if youre trying to follow the story starting new right now. Maybe, they should just start all New characters at level 80 now.

Make them all scaling zones.. Quest and level up where you want! Make Westfall a place max levels want to go to quest!

You almost could start everyone at "level 1" aka "level 110". Then to level up you have all of Eastern Kingdoms, Kalimdor, Northrend, Pandaria, Outlands, etc etc. As your max level play ground to level then world quest! Major over haul it would be but I think it'd be awesome!

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Well, some are actually totally turned off by the realistisc look. Games like Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls online and many of the asian MMOs have tried to make their game look mostly realistic, but it ends up creating an entirely different feel then the cartoonish worlds of Warcraft and Wildstar..

Uncanny Valley is in effect with the "realistic" games

[Deleted]

Well, some are actually totally turned off by the realistisc look. Games like Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls online and many of the asian MMOs have tried to make their game look mostly realistic, but it ends up creating an entirely different feel then the cartoonish worlds of Warcraft and Wildstar. It is very hard to improve on that style without also completly removing alot of its more charming aspects.

So i don't really think graphics have alot to do with, but more style. I personally prefer the cartoonish style of Warcraft and Wildstar, because i feel like i am playing a game and not a life-simulater. Also, the higher graphics you put out in an MMO, the more the mistakes and limits of the game engines shows out. In WOW, it is kind of okay, that armors clips and hair going inside cloaks, but in FFIXV it becomes an eyesore if stuff like that is kept in.

I wouldn't say FFXIV is going for realism, it has the anime look

[Nathreim]

I feel having individual class stories hurt the overall story more than helped it.

Still better than WoD though.

[Deleted]

I feel having individual class stories hurt the overall story more than helped it.

Still better than WoD though.

The individual class quests is what made me level alts because the main campaign of Legion is meh

[Obelisk Kai]

You know, people here talk of the various systems that are in play during Legion. The Artifact Power, Artifact Knowledge, the Legendaries, the existence of too easy content in LFR or too hard content like mythic that turns it into a grind. Everyone ascribes their least favorite feature as the reason the game is slowly declining.

I believe the truth to be more prosaic.

World of Warcraft is old.

Blizzard is content with the churn, of players leaving and returning in cycles. But how many are genuinely new players pick the game up now? I would wager barely any.

As each of the factors people don't like grinds the playerbase away (although they do seem to come back), we ignore the two primary issues that serve as barriers for entry.

One, the narrative is a currently a mess. World of Warcraft currently has the weakest narrative of any major MMO. Cataclysm broke the natural flow of the story (and in hindsight, that appears to have been something of a mistake) and the storyline itself has meandered between the excellent (Garrosh's journey into darkness in Mists, the Fall of the Lich King) to the ridiculous (Deathwing's rubbish hour of twilight plan, the entirety of Warlords of Draenor).

Two, the graphics. For the longest time, the greatest defense of WoW's graphics were that they would age well. And age well they did. But they STILL aged. I'm adventuring on a low level character now, level 40, I've been all over the original continents.
They are hideous. Once fantastical landscapes now look like what they are, ancient landscapes with low-res textures where you can almost count the polygons.

Frankly, they are going to have seize the bull by it's horns eventually and do a massive graphical update. The justification should be extending the world quest system across the game world and making use of the entire landmass. At the same time they can work on the game's narrative presentation and try and present something that is cohesive and flow together from level 1 to 120.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You know, people here talk of the various systems that are in play during Legion. The Artifact Power, Artifact Knowledge, the Legendaries, the existence of too easy content in LFR or too hard content like mythic that turns it into a grind. Everyone ascribes their least favorite feature as the reason the game is slowly declining.

I believe the truth to be more prosaic.

World of Warcraft is old.

Blizzard is content with the churn, of players leaving and returning in cycles. But how many are genuinely new players pick the game up now? I would wager barely any.

As each of the factors people don't like grinds the playerbase away (although they do seem to come back), we ignore the two primary issues that serve as barriers for entry.

One, the narrative is a currently a mess. World of Warcraft currently has the weakest narrative of any major MMO. Cataclysm broke the natural flow of the story (and in hindsight, that appears to have been something of a mistake) and the storyline itself has meandered between the excellent (Garrosh's journey into darkness in Mists, the Fall of the Lich King) to the ridiculous (Deathwing's rubbish hour of twilight plan, the entirety of Warlords of Draenor).

Two, the graphics. For the longest time, the greatest defense of WoW's graphics were that they would age well. And age well they did. But they STILL aged. I'm adventuring on a low level character now, level 40, I've been all over the original continents.
They are hideous. Once fantastical landscapes now look like what they are, ancient landscapes with low-res textures where you can almost count the polygons.

Frankly, they are going to have seize the bull by it's horns eventually and do a massive graphical update. The justification should be extending the world quest system across the game world and making use of the entire landmass. At the same time they can work on the game's narrative presentation and try and present something that is cohesive and flow together from level 1 to 120.

It's very unlikely Blizzard will update the old world. Mess with the capital cities maybe but not the regular world.

[Killadrix]

Again I specifically said new players have told me their opinion

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The point remains, WoW looks dated compared to the competition

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Because a lot of my friends play RPGs for the story (myself included) and if the story doesn't make sense or grip you there's little point... Gameplay wise WoW isn't exactly unique or different to the competition

Okay, well none of my friends play WoW for the story, so I'm a little confused how the anecdotal evidence gleaned from the sample size of "your friends" somehow extends to ALL new players playing the game, and somehow serves as an indictment of the overall quality of WoW, simply because "your friends" aren't happy with it?

[Obelisk Kai]

It's very unlikely Blizzard will update the old world. Mess with the capital cities maybe but not the regular world.

I'd say eventually they will be forced to. The old world is increasingly hideous, an outdated eyesore that serves as an almighty barrier to entry. People in this thread are using the FF14 example.

Elder Scrolls Online is the more pertinent one. Not a fan of the game myself but it looks gorgeous. And like it or not, looks are the foundations of a first impression. The kind of looks that will entice new players in.

I am not saying WoW needs to be brought up to the same level as TESO, but they can do a better job if they want to and increasingly I am convinced they will have to.

[Deleted]

Okay, well none of my friends play WoW for the story, so I'm a little confused how the anecdotal evidence gleaned from the sample size of "your friends" somehow extends to ALL new players playing the game, and somehow serves as an indictment of the overall quality of WoW, simply because "your friends" aren't happy with it?

I never claimed ALL players, I simply said the story puts some people off could be 5 people or 5 million