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  1. #1

    Are galaxy class star ships underarmed?

    So for a ship that's designed to carry large amounts of people including civilians and diplomatic people it seems like only having 2 torpedo launchers isn't alot. Granted it has alot of phaser banks but given that the flagship of the federation was a galaxy class ship it seems they should've done better.

    In the Jem'Hadar episode of DS9 the Odyssy was neutralized so quickly in the fight. It didn't even try to maneuver. It basically just sat there and took it. I don't understand why the runabouts lasted longer in that fight than a Galaxy class starship.

    I get that at it's size the galaxy class ship isn't probably very maneuverable but quite honestly that battle was embarrassing. One of the nacelles were taken out almost immediately.
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  2. #2
    I don't think the Federation build their ships with more than very basic self-defense in mind.

    They're not like Klingons and Cardassians whose ships are generally designed purely for combat operations.

  3. #3
    Well the federation was extremely naive when it came to their starship designs after peace with the Klingon Empire was secured. They designed their ships with exploration/science and diplomacy first and it's defenses were a secondary issue. They learned the hard way with incidents with the borg which lead to the defiant class and the dominion war. Many of their ships underwent refits but their newer ships were designed with this in mind. The Defiant class was a warship first and the sovereign class while still not called a warship was armed as one.

    The post dominion war and nemesis federation has had a attitude adjustment in their designs. Now how long that would last who knows maybe after another fifty years of peace they would slide back into their TNG mindset much as they did after peace with the Klingon empire.

    Edit: As to the first encounter with the Dominion their weapons were able to bypass federation shielding since they used Phased Polaron weapons or something along those lines. It took sisko salvaging a crashed dominion ship and alot of work by starfleet to make their shields work vs these weapons as they would against any other weapon. The speed they were able to do this surprised the dominion to which dukat reminded them never underestimate how quickly the federation can adapt.
    Last edited by Rumred; 2017-05-23 at 05:22 AM.

  4. #4
    I wonder more about how poorly executed all the fights are given that you have complete control of the entirety of 3-dimensional space.

    Also at the speeds they are going the moment the inertial dampeners went offline everyone inside a ship would be turned into creamed beef.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I wonder more about how poorly executed all the fights are given that you have complete control of the entirety of 3-dimensional space.

    Also at the speeds they are going the moment the inertial dampeners went offline everyone inside a ship would be turned into creamed beef.
    I am sure they can come up with some techno babble to explain it all away. The simple answer is to execute a true 3 dimensional space fight would have been more expensive than the methods they used. It is funny as spock remarked that was Khans weakness as he was fighting the battle in a very 2d state of mind so you would think they would make more of a effort.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumred View Post
    Well the federation was extremely naive when it came to their starship designs after peace with the Klingon Empire was secured. They designed their ships with exploration/science and diplomacy first and it's defenses were a secondary issue. They learned the hard way with incidents with the borg which lead to the defiant class and the dominion war. Many of their ships underwent refits but their newer ships were designed with this in mind. The Defiant class was a warship first and the sovereign class while still not called a warship was armed as one.

    The post dominion war and nemesis federation has had a attitude adjustment in their designs. Now how long that would last who knows maybe after another fifty years of peace they would slide back into their TNG mindset much as they did after peace with the Klingon empire.

    Edit: As to the first encounter with the Dominion their weapons were able to bypass federation shielding since they used Phased Polaron weapons or something along those lines. It took sisko salvaging a crashed dominion ship and alot of work by starfleet to make their shields work vs these weapons as they would against any other weapon. The speed they were able to do this surprised the dominion to which dukat reminded them never underestimate how quickly the federation can adapt.
    It seems more like they started with the attitude adjustment with voyager. It was designed for combat in mind.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    It seems more like they started with the attitude adjustment with voyager. It was designed for combat in mind.
    To a extent but Voyager was still not a warship and could not take a pounding.This is why you don't see many intrepid class in the dominion war. They were armed decently but still lacked firepower and the armor/shielding to really take a beating. You also have to remember alot of the ships voyager takes on are nowhere near as powerful as Dominion ships. This is of course excluding Borg,8972 and the timeship. Now as the show goes on voyager is upgraded with borg and other delta quadrant tech out of need making it have a bigger bite. But early on it was fairly under powered and would have been fodder vs the dominion.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rumred View Post
    To a extent but Voyager was still not a warship and could not take a pounding.This is why you don't see many intrepid class in the dominion war. They were armed decently but still lacked firepower and the armor/shielding to really take a beating. You also have to remember alot of the ships voyager takes on are nowhere near as powerful as Dominion ships. This is of course excluding Borg,8972 and the timeship. Now as the show goes on voyager is upgraded with borg and other delta quadrant tech out of need making it have a bigger bite. But early on it was fairly under powered and would have been fodder vs the dominion.
    I mean I agree with most of what you said but it took a pounding pretty good. It survived the delta quandrant. Like you said it survived the borg and species 8472. Species 8472 was such a wildcard for them and granted they had borg help with their weapons but species 8472 obliterated massive amounts of borg ships and borg planets. Voyager survived that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There simply should've been more intrepid class ships at the dominion war. It's a way more capable ship than the Galaxy class ship.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    It seems more like they started with the attitude adjustment with voyager. It was designed for combat in mind.
    The Intrepid class ships were science vessels designed for deep space exploration shortly before the Dominion war began, they were not designed for combat at all. The problem you're having is you're using Voyager as a guide, that show is awful and almost everything in it was stupid, don't reference it for anything.

    The Akira class and the Defiant were the first real changes in Federation ship design focusing more on combat.

  10. #10
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    None of the enterprises were ever built to be warships. The Galaxy Class is meant to be the crowning achievement in research/exploration ship design. The phasers and torpedoes it has are just so it won't be easy bait for assailants that aren't as peace-oriented. The fact that they can still sterilize an entire planet is owed to the sophisticated federation tech. Whenever they get a mission to do shit in or near the neutral zone, I always think "What moron at Starfleet thought this was a good idea?" That's like taking the submarine that explored the Mariana Trench and having it patrol the waters near North Korea.

    Sure, space battles are really cool, but Star Trek isn't really about that. The fans may want to see the ships and crews kick ass, but those things are not and have never been meant to blow shit up all the time.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    I mean I agree with most of what you said but it took a pounding pretty good. It survived the delta quandrant. Like you said it survived the borg and species 8472. Species 8472 was such a wildcard for them and granted they had borg help with their weapons but species 8472 obliterated massive amounts of borg ships and borg planets. Voyager survived that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There simply should've been more intrepid class ships at the dominion war. It's a way more capable ship than the Galaxy class ship.
    Well a-lot of had galaxy classes already built or being built as the dominon war broke out. The intrepid s design goal was for deep space exploration and was a fairly new design. When war broke out it was cheaper and quicker to refit existing galaxy class star ships. Not to mention pure warship designs were put into effect during the dominion war. Such as the defiant class,steam-runner,sovereign and akira classes.

    The intrepid class would have been a waste of resources as a refit galaxy would blow it out of the water without doubt. Mind you the galaxy class had more power generation and space for more weapons and could be used as a troop transport if need be. The intrepid lacked both of these attributes. Why build deep space explortation ships when you can refit existing ships and for new ships built those with war in mind.

    In no way am i saying its a bad ship for what is designed to do it is excellent. But for war it was ill suited and lacked the ability to be refit to the extent a galaxy class or other large ships could be.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lartok View Post
    The Intrepid class ships were science vessels designed for deep space exploration shortly before the Dominion war began, they were not designed for combat at all. The problem you're having is you're using Voyager as a guide, that show is awful and almost everything in it was stupid, don't reference it for anything.

    The Akira class and the Defiant were the first real changes in Federation ship design focusing more on combat.
    This isn't about the quality of the show. This is about the combat capability of the intrepid class ships. While I'm on the subject I enjoyed Voyager. I was relieved that we were seeing all new species and even more of the Borg.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    So for a ship that's designed to carry large amounts of people including civilians and diplomatic people it seems like only having 2 torpedo launchers isn't alot. Granted it has alot of phaser banks but given that the flagship of the federation was a galaxy class ship it seems they should've done better.

    In the Jem'Hadar episode of DS9 the Odyssy was neutralized so quickly in the fight. It didn't even try to maneuver. It basically just sat there and took it. I don't understand why the runabouts lasted longer in that fight than a Galaxy class starship.

    I get that at it's size the galaxy class ship isn't probably very maneuverable but quite honestly that battle was embarrassing. One of the nacelles were taken out almost immediately.
    Well. You have to consider a few things here.

    First and foremost - the torpedo launchers.
    A Galaxy-class starship has three torpedo launchers - the one forward and aft, as well as an aft-firing launcher underneath the saucer (only used in saucer separation mode, obviously.) The launchers themselves are capable of firing up to 5 torpedoes at once, each with an independent target, and a re-load time in the sub 0.5 second range. The Enterprise was stated to carry a complement of 250 photon torpedoes - a very large number in comparison to Voyager, which had a complement of 50 at its launch (and 6 episodes in, was down to 38.) The amount of firepower there is staggering. One thing that you don't see is the full force of that firepower very often. Couple that with its all-axis 360 degree phaser arcs from 12 (the Odyssey had 14), and the Enterprise had a very powerful arsenal. The fact that Picard found more diplomatic ways of dealing with problems is in no way a reflection of its capabilities in combat.

    Galaxy class starships were intimidating as fuck; they were massive flying cities - complete with some of the most advanced science labs in Starfleet. 'Famous' doctors of all disciplines visit the Enterprise on a continual basis to utilize its capabilities. It is definitely a vessel built for exploration. Which naturally, carrying a compliment of over 1000 people, it's going to be fucking huge. That makes its biggest weakness its maneuverability. In any major battle in which a Galaxy-class starship is defeated, their engines are damaged early, which cripples the ship and makes it vulnerable to attack outside of its torpedo launchers' firing arcs.

    The Galaxy-class starship serves an important role despite its flaws, and although some advancements were made to the class throughout the Dominion war, its successor the Sovereign-class replaced it in most of the key areas, while not being as bulky. As the Sovereign-class starship does not generally have civilians on board, its smaller crew capacity and overall dimensions fit within a sleeker and much more maneuverable frame - with nearly twice the firepower of a Galaxy-class starship.

  14. #14
    Did the Federation, only make one Defiance?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Svad1287 View Post
    Did the Federation, only make one Defiance?
    They made many, many of them. Only the original Defiant had the cloaking device though

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by babalou1 View Post
    They made many, many of them. Only the original Defiant had the cloaking device though
    I always hated that the treaty of Algeron stopped the federation from developing cloaking technology.
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  17. #17
    It wasn't a warship, and it was designed during a time of relative peace: The Romulans were keeping to themselves and the Klingons were an ally. Until the Borg showed up (and the Dominion later on), the Federation was pretty complacent, so they had no reason to stray from their "peaceful exploration" shtick. But even so, there weren't many powers in the Alpha Quadrant that could field ships capable of going toe-to-toe with a Galaxy Class starship.

    I think a lot of this sort of thing had to do with technical/budget/time constraints on the show. It would have been great to see the Enterprise ditch the saucer section and go full battle mode more than...twice, but it just wasn't in the cards. And it wasn't really what the show was about, either.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2017-05-23 at 07:01 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    This isn't about the quality of the show. This is about the combat capability of the intrepid class ships. While I'm on the subject I enjoyed Voyager. I was relieved that we were seeing all new species and even more of the Borg.
    Yes and the combat capability of the Intrepid class is piss poor BUT in Voyager because it was a bad show they constantly had magically weapons, upgrades and circumstances that allowed them to defeat impossible odds, that doesn't make the class of ship particularly combat capable.
    Last edited by Lartok; 2017-05-23 at 07:34 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mayhem008 View Post
    I always hated that the treaty of Algeron stopped the federation from developing cloaking technology.
    Stopped or not it gave us one of the best TNG episodes with the phase cloaking.

    Love it when Picard gets a chance to go full paladin.

  20. #20
    The Patient
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    Start Trek and Star Wars spaceships are small and very weak. Otherwise it wouldn't be interesting to watch. Proper starships like in Revelation Space series can decimate entire planets. They don't even need designated weapon system - lasers that protect you from space debris are powerful enough. If you have enough energy to move between stars then you have enough energy to destroy almost anything.

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