2 explosions in Manchester Arena - CONFIRMED Fatalities.

[Dug]

Problem as I see it is if there's any sort of inkling of radicalization going on then the police should act. But that's a slippery slope of losing personal freedoms for people of other faiths. Seems like a lot of times these people are "known to police" but they cannot act until they actually do something. So the argument becomes are we willing to sacrifice personal freedoms so that the police can act on this people just discussing radical ideas?

[Puupi]

Any more information on who this Salman Abedi is/was?

Again, officials had already been in contact with that guy and knew who he was....

Why these terrorists are allowed to be in the country?

[Deleted]

The first few pages of this thread are disgusting

[lonely zergling]

Again, officials had already been in contact with that guy and knew who he was....

Why these terrorists are allowed to be in the country?

There simply is not enough manpower to observe all the known potential dangerous people 24/7.

[Deleted]

There simply is not enough manpower to observe all the potential dangerous people 24/7.

It's more about dangerous ideas than dangerous people.

[Deleted]

Any more information on who this Salman Abedi is/was?

Again, officials had already been in contact with that guy and knew who he was....

Why these terrorists are allowed to be in the country?

Nah man it's the UKIP and trump party setting up an innocent economic migrant of a crime he didn't commit.

[Dug]

No. Absolutely not. Personal freedoms given away are never regained, and giving governments the power to preemptively surpress those they 'suspect' without sufficient evidence allows them to crush anybody they disagree with without having to supy a reason. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Every time there's an attack people start practically begging for a hyper-authoritarian regime. Jfc.

And you're correct which is why I said its a slippery slope. Personally it's not something I'm advocating for but its a... band aid fix that would have a lot more problems down the road. I'm just wondering what we can do and what people are advocating that's feasible and isn't just glassing the entire ME or preventing immigration... when the problem is homegrown terrorism.

[Deleted]

Yeah, let's suppress 'dangerous ideas'. That will end really well.

People, 1984 was a warning not a fucking handbook.

I'm all for eliminating the idea that some people need to be fought a "holy war" against. Yes. Absolutely. "Suppress" that idea until it dies.

However, not at any point was I talking about policing thoughts.

[Thalassian Bob]

Any more information on who this Salman Abedi is/was?

Again, officials had already been in contact with that guy and knew who he was....

Why these terrorists are allowed to be in the country?

Frustratingly, he was probably British.

Our intelligence services do an incredible job, but they are so overstretched. The number of people and the man hours required to monitor one person is staggering. Unfortunately, for every 20 or so major terror attacks that are thwarted, one will always get through the net.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't be having serious discussions about ways to step up our protection against this shit. Starting with early years education, teaching kids about how wonderful liberal, secular democracy is and how lucky they are to be living in Britain instead of some Sharia controlled shithole.

[Jessicka]

I'm all for eliminating the idea that some people need to be fought a "holy war" against. Yes. Absolutely. "Suppress" that idea until it dies.

However, not at any point was I talking about policing thoughts.

It's all freedom of speech, so long as it's about bombing the other guys.

[Pengekaer]

It's so woefully predictable now. The media and the state will once again claim that we are showing strength by carrying on with business as usual, not addressing the problem directly and attempting to come up with drastic but nuanced solutions to the undeniable problem we have with home-grown extremism we have in the UK and the rest of Western Europe.

After the response to the Westminster attack, I was reminded of a certain part of 1984 that stuck with me ever since first reading the book. It's a chilling comment on the human ability to become desensitised to violent atrocity and attacks against one's society.



It shook me because when I heard about the attack, I didn't bat an eyelid. Acts of barbarism like this have become so commonplace in Europe now that, I only had an emotional reaction when the dead - and their young ages - started being identified.
We have shockingly allowed attacks like these against us to become mundane. It's wrong.

Word!

The now horribly worn phrase "Carry on as usual" really means "continue to wander around and act as lambs to the slaughter".
Lambs to the slaughter. That is all we are to the politicians now.

We must deal the treason in our Governments. When Blue Suit #827 tells us to just shrug it off and live on as usual, it is treason to our constitutions and our heritage. Telling us to do nothing while the muslims win street by street by struggle of attrition.

"A bad peace is even worse than war." - Tacitus

And we're having a really bad peace, with Islam, at the moment. I am getting mighty tired of it.

[yellowgore]

In my opinion, immigration policies shouldn't account for your nationality or skin color, only your will to learn and your ability to contribute to the society you are trying to join.

Willingness to learn should also reference a willingness to assimilate, at least to be able to participate meaningfully in local society and commerce. This does not necessarily require abandonment of your native culture.

Immigration policy should also be able to confirm that it is unlikely that you will cause harm to citizens and others already legally here. If the country you are coming from is so backwards that there are no records of your birth, your schooling, where you lived, whether you held a job or paid taxes, whether you have an arrest record, and whether there is any other intelligence that indicates you may have unsavory issues (travel to terrorist hot zones, unusual sources of funds, violent social media presence, fraternization with other high risk people or groups, etc..), YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN. Period.

[Deleted]

It's all freedom of speech, so long as it's about bombing the other guys.

Just for the record, I'm for stopping all the bombs, on all sides. And bullets. Stop sending soldiers into countries to mess them up, and to cause the creation of more and more extremists, which then spread their extremist ideas, and cause events like this.

I'm talking about eliminating the dangerous ideas, all dangerous ideas, typically with the help of proper education as well as tuning the science-religion -scale more to the science side of things. Incidentally, those aforementioned dangerous ideas include both blowing up infidels with suicide bombs, as well as policing other countries as some kind of a world police.

Dropping bombs and killing people and banning travel does jackall. Absolutely jackall.

[Trassk]

Here we go again.

yeah thats pretty spot on, and you do become decensortised to it, even the ones who call you a bigot for wanting to stop the flow of mass immigration. you just stop giving a dam.

[s_bushido]

Acts of barbarism like this have become so commonplace in Europe, I only had an emotional reaction when the dead - and their young ages - started being identified.

Give me a fucking break. Your personal lack of empathy is not indicative of anyone but yourself. There is such a strong reaction to events like this precisely because they are so uncommon.

But I would love to hear what "drastic and nuanced" action you think should be taken. It so easy for fuckwits to bemoan the "fact" that nothing is being done, much less for them to actually propose something that isn't completely heinous, is it?

[Jessicka]

Just for the record, I'm for stopping all the bombs, on all sides. And bullets. Stop sending soldiers into countries to mess them up, and to cause the creation of more and more extremists, which then spread their extremist ideas, and cause events like this.

I'm talking about eliminating the dangerous ideas, all dangerous ideas, typically with the help of proper education as well as tuning the science-religion -scale more to the science side of things. Incidentally, those aforementioned dangerous ideas include both blowing up infidels with suicide bombs, as well as policing other countries as some kind of a world police.

Dropping bombs and killing people and banning travel does jackall. Absolutely jackall.

Absolutely true.

[Cyi]

Here we go again. Its not like certain people haven't been warning of these attacks for some time now. Maybe we should just be more sensitive to their needs and more PC about their religion. Perhaps its just us that are the problem and we should justify these attacks somehow. Better yet, lets blame it on the police, they seem like a good scapegoat for everything. Nope never mind, its the whites problem because of slavery and our latent hate towards non-whites. Maybe the uneducated rednecks that voted for Trump caused this to happen. No no, it was the Russians that did it, with the help of Trump, being investigated by the FBI, on the verge of being impeached, carried out by one of Trumps inept lackeys.

Lets be honest though, it will be blamed on anything except for radical islamic extremism or liberal policies of open, unchecked borders.


[Infracted]

[ranzino]

Define strict immigration policy? Walls? Jail? Deportation? On what ground? Color? Ethnicity? Religion?
If i'm a 20 year old Muslim from Afghanistan with clean record should i be accepted to your country?

No, not in germany anymore. Afghanistan is a safe country per our decision.

[Rooflesstoofless]

yeah thats pretty spot on, and you do become decensortised to it, even the ones who call you a bigot for wanting to stop the flow of mass immigration. you just stop giving a dam.

Wait...not believing in a free for all where extremists slip through makes you a bigot?

[Deleted]

Sad to see happen pain in so many people. I include you in my prayers and hope peace come soon