Question about survival hunters

[kennytheone]

I like the new survival spec...it is true it feels a bit clunky on long fights but it's awsome doong wq with it...anyway i feel it is more playable than arms warrior for example which is abismal to me...and dps wise is not bad either just fucks with ypur eyes a bit since u need to keep track of so many small buffs

[Bepples]

I like the new survival spec...it is true it feels a bit clunky on long fights but it's awsome doong wq with it...anyway i feel it is more playable than arms warrior for example which is abismal to me...and dps wise is not bad either just fucks with ypur eyes a bit since u need to keep track of so many small buffs

You main a Demon Hunter. Quelle surprise.

[Mirishka]

... well... yeah. That's pretty much exactly what I am saying. Many people don't like Survival because of the underhanded manner in which it was introduced and good performance/playstyle won't change that. All power to them. I'm one of those people. We liked the old Survival and we've been treated like negligible collateral damage by Blizzard. Thier melee favouritism in Legion clearly resulted in them prioritising a few melee-preferring players at the expense of a large amount of ranged players (Survival was a highly popular spec when it was ranged). If they are going to throw customers under the bus like that, they can take their new spec and shove it up their collective ass.

They announced nearly a year in advance that Surv was becoming a melee spec, delivered a melee spec, and it ended up being the most mechanically rewarding (in terms of depth) of the 3 hunter specs by some margin. Sure there was (and arguably is) some clunkiness, but what new class/spec doesn't have that?

That's the problem with the 'vocal minority' we see on these forums. Any change they personally hate is being thrown under the bus, a slap in the face, underhanded, lazy, terrible decision by dev 2 b fired, etc.

Or maybe, just maybe, its Blizzard exercising their right to design their game the way they choose?

Some of you guys need to learn the difference between not liking something and 'omg blizz slap me in teh face'. Its a pretty big jump to go from one to the other.

[Bepples]

They announced nearly a year in advance that Surv was becoming a melee spec, delivered a melee spec, and it ended up being the most mechanically rewarding (in terms of depth) of the 3 hunter specs by some margin. Sure there was (and arguably is) some clunkiness, but what new class/spec doesn't have that?

It sure didn't mean shit for Survival's reception and adoption by its own class. 9 months in and it's still a pariah. Not sure why you even included this paragraph, to be honest, because it's not at all relevant to what you quoted.

That's the problem with the 'vocal minority' we see on these forums. Any change they personally hate is being thrown under the bus, a slap in the face, underhanded, lazy, terrible decision by dev 2 b fired, etc.

If people who dislike Survival are the minority, why does it still make up a mere 3% of Hunters' representation in mythic Nighthold despite having all the advantages this tier and allegedly being the "most mechanically rewarding of the 3 hunter specs by some margin"?

And yeah, Blizzard singling out a spec and completely removing it to replace it with a totally different spec appealing to a mostly separate group of people is abso-fucking-lutely throwing the people who enjoyed the spec in the first place under the bus. That is the very definition of preferential treatment; treating one person or group of people better at the expense of another person/group.

And doing it in the manner they did is underhanded:
- They let ranged Survival stagnate for a whole expansion, ignoring all suggestions for playstyle additions and improvements.
- They removed a core component of the spec and claimed it was a bug, despite said component existing in the game since Cataclysm, and being a named passive, tooltip and all (Improved Serpent Sting) for Cata and MoP, causing the spec to completely die off in T18.
- A month and a half later (you cannot tell me this timing with the nerf was coincidental), they announce the spec is going melee on the grounds that it needs to be differentiated from other specs, despite the aforementioned ignoring of all suggestions of unique mechanics that could differentiate the spec.
- They claimed that the old Survival playstyle would be available through Marksmanship talents: it isn't.
- They took traps away from the other two specs to give to Survival, and only reversed this after massive and consistent community outcry (and people like you were there to defend the Survival-exclusive traps right up until Blizzard themselves said they were reversing the decision)
- Survival received the lion's share of new Hunter mechanics this expansion while the other two specs were largely pruned
- They have yet to make a nerf to Survival this expansion, while having nerfed BM and MM several times (despite MM currently being far behind SV)

They methodically killed of the old Survival while trying their hardest to push people into the new spec, effectively bribing them with damage buffs and developer attention. I could have just brought up the 6.2 nerf on its own as the perfect example of their shadiness. Serpent Sting doing damage on the initial tick had been a thing since Cataclysm and was a core part of the spec's damage capability (it was the primary source of our AoE capability and a significant chunk of our single-target), so much so that the spec's damage output was tuned with this taken into account. Suddenly, they decide it's an unintentional bug and remove it, dropping Survival to tank levels of damage and offering zero compensation. A month later, "Survival melee! Hype!". Either it was massive developer incompetence or malice. Pick one.

Or maybe, just maybe, its Blizzard exercising their right to design their game the way they choose?

When people call out shitty Blizzard decisions, absolutely no one ever tries to argue that they are literally not allowed to make the changes in question. That's a strawman invented by white knights with zero reading comprehension. Being allowed to make the change doesn't make the change any less garbage. Just like how acting as Blizzard's hall monitor on the forums is perfectly allowed yet doesn't make it any less stupid (contrary to your obnoxious and ironic signature).

[Derian]

- They removed a core component of the spec and claimed it was a bug, despite said component existing in the game since Cataclysm, and being a named passive, tooltip and all (Improved Serpent Sting) for Cata and MoP, causing the spec to completely die off in T18.

Improved serpent sting was removed because of the way it interacted with arcane shot and multi-shot multistrikes. That was the bug, not ISS existing.

[Shakou]

They announced nearly a year in advance that Surv was becoming a melee spec, delivered a melee spec, and for me it ended up being the most mechanically rewarding (in terms of depth) of the 3 hunter specs by some margin. Sure there was (and arguably is) some clunkiness, but what new class/spec doesn't have that?

That's the problem with the 'vocal minority' we see on these forums. They like to pretend like there are more people that agree with them than don't and think that something should stay the way it is because they feel like Blizzard is like their personal friend for making this spec that only they and a handful of other people even enjoy playing.

Maybe, just maybe, Blizzard is first and foremost a business and if costumers hate something so much it noticeably effects their bottom line in a negative way they have no choice but to fix it?

Anyways some of you guys need to learn the difference between liking something to that something being generally well received. Its a pretty big jump to go from one to the other.

Fixed that for you.

[Mamut]

Fixed that for you.

And yet I enjoy surv and completly agree with Mirishka so you can GTFO with your fix.

[Skagasm]

Maybe he is on a crusade because it needs to have shit talked about it. It was an unneeded, unwanted, unwarranted change that no one but a very small minority of players enjoys. Pretty sure it is going to go the way of the $2 bill, a novelty for a time, but soon realized to be a useless addition to the monetary system.

I can't think of any way this analogy makes sense without a view that eschews all knowledge of history for whatever made up story you feel like telling yourself. It implies the $2 bill is no longer printed (it is). It assumes that it was a new, novel addition to currency that didn't work out (it's as old or older than almost all other American currency).

--

Yes, it can be frustrating and difficult to juggle DoTs and Mok'nathal and traps and Moongoose windows, but Survival is the most fun DPS spec I've ever played.

The reason why it's an unpopular spec are simple:

- It's hard.
- Many people chose to play hunters because it's a ranged class.
- Community bias in favor of ranged for raiding (since before this expansion raid comps were generally assumed to be strongest with more ranged and less melee).

[Shakou]

And yet I enjoy surv and completly agree with Mirishka so you can GTFO with your fix.

That's fine, the vast majority of the player base does not agree with either of you as evidenced by the simple fact that very few play survival as a main spec, and most of them do it only for pvp. Stop fronting. You like it? You play it? Own it, if that's not enough I don't know what to tell you.

[Trapstarz]

They announced nearly a year in advance that Surv was becoming a melee spec, delivered a melee spec, and it ended up being the most mechanically rewarding (in terms of depth) of the 3 hunter specs by some margin. Sure there was (and arguably is) some clunkiness, but what new class/spec doesn't have that?

That's the problem with the 'vocal minority' we see on these forums. Any change they personally hate is being thrown under the bus, a slap in the face, underhanded, lazy, terrible decision by dev 2 b fired, etc.

Or maybe, just maybe, its Blizzard exercising their right to design their game the way they choose?

Some of you guys need to learn the difference between not liking something and 'omg blizz slap me in teh face'. Its a pretty big jump to go from one to the other.

Have my favorite

[Doffen]

That's fine, the vast majority of the player base does not agree with either of you as evidenced by the simple fact that very few play survival as a main spec, and most of them do it only for pvp. Stop fronting. You like it? You play it? Own it, if that's not enough I don't know what to tell you.

The vast majority haven't even tried survival. Wich is probably the biggest issue with it. Its the whole mentality that says NO WANT melee huntard that stops the vast majority to even try it out properly. Wich is a valid concern. If they introduced it to be more like DH gameplay it would probably be received better.

Half of the hunter-population probably doesn't even know that as survival you use a pet on your side. Most reactions I get is Wow you use a pet as surv too???(I am survival offspec for most ST fights and Skorplol, dat burst aoe and cause you know, melee can relax in NH)

[Bepples]

Improved serpent sting was removed because of the way it interacted with arcane shot and multi-shot multistrikes. That was the bug, not ISS existing.

So because of a bug with how ISS worked with Multistrike, they removed the whole thing? Doesn't make sense.

Also, they made Multistrike Survival's attuned stat. On top of that, they tuned Survival while taking this "bug" into account. They also left it for 8 months. And when they nerfed it, they didn't buff Survival to compensate and announced Survival's change to melee a mere 1.5 months later.

- Many people chose to play hunters because it's a ranged class.

This reason alone is enough to make melee Survival a mistake.

The vast majority haven't even tried survival. Wich is probably the biggest issue with it. Its the whole mentality that says NO WANT melee huntard that stops the vast majority to even try it out properly. Wich is a valid concern. If they introduced it to be more like DH gameplay it would probably be received better.

Half of the hunter-population probably doesn't even know that as survival you use a pet on your side. Most reactions I get is Wow you use a pet as surv too???(I am survival offspec for most ST fights and Skorplol, dat burst aoe and cause you know, melee can relax in NH)

If someone tells you they don't like coffee, do you chastise them for not trying espresso before assuming they will hate it?

If someone doesn't like melee in general, the will not like Survival. Trying it out won't change that. Crying about how people aren't giving it a chance is absurd. Also, I'd wager that most Hunters HAVE at least tried Survival, even if to just get the 3rd artifact weapon. Even I've tried it, albeit on a test realm. If they haven't tried Survival, they have at least tried melee before and decided they don't like it, or they don't prefer it enough to main it.

[Shakou]

The vast majority haven't even tried survival.

You have absolutely no data to prove that at all.

And really, it's this simple, It's a half-baked spec that does absolutely nothing that other melee specs do not do better.

If someone tells you they don't like coffee, do you chastise them for not trying espresso before assuming they will hate it?

If someone doesn't like melee in general, the will not like Survival. Trying it out won't change that. Crying about how people aren't giving it a chance is absurd. Also, I'd wager that most Hunters HAVE at least tried Survival, even if to just get the 3rd artifact weapon. Even I've tried it, albeit on a test realm. If they haven't tried Survival, they have at least tried melee before and decided they don't like it, or they don't prefer it enough to main it.

All of this.

By the way just so we're clear I've not only "tried" Survival, but I've tried to make it work and it's just plain clunky and terrible. But still my survival gear set is good enough that I could technically be raiding in my 10/10 mythic guild as Survival.

Except no Mythic Guild in their right mind would go with it, and no good player would want to.

[Doffen]

If someone tells you they don't like coffee, do you chastise them for not trying espresso before assuming they will hate it?

If someone doesn't like melee in general, the will not like Survival. Trying it out won't change that. Crying about how people aren't giving it a chance is absurd. Also, I'd wager that most Hunters HAVE at least tried Survival, even if to just get the 3rd artifact weapon. Even I've tried it, albeit on a test realm. If they haven't tried Survival, they have at least tried melee before and decided they don't like it, or they don't prefer it enough to main it.

Whos crying? Just trying to discuss why and how there is so few people playing it. The spec is clunky, and it could improve alot. I get that. But then as I said, if it have had a smoother rotation, similar to like a DH have, there would be more playing it.

- - - Updated - - -

Except no Mythic Guild in their right mind would go with it, and no good player would want to.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...866&dataset=90

yeah, no one. It's on 4th on guldan mythic. Saying survival isn't good dps is just silly. Good as in decent.

[Shakou]

Whos crying? Just trying to discuss why and how there is so few people playing it. The spec is clunky, and it could improve alot. I get that. But then as I said, if it have had a smoother rotation, similar to like a DH have, there would be more playing it.

- - - Updated - - -


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...866&dataset=90

yeah, no one. It's on 4th on guldan mythic. Saying survival isn't good dps is just silly. Good as in decent.

Are you being serious right now?

Not one of those parses is from a progression kill, those are all farm kills and all of those guilds are comfortable enough to mess around and actually take a survival hunter into their group, that is why there is only a tiny fraction (literally only 215 total) of parses up at all.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...urvival&page=3

Also FYI parses actually don't matter past the first kill.

Thanks for your contribution though. lol

[Khrux]

Except no Mythic Guild in their right mind would go with it, and no good player would want to.

This comment just removes any credibility you had, if any, on the subject.

Survival is basically on par with Fury warriors and DH's for Gul'dan. They are specifically brought for their Eye and Parasite burst AoE. Method's hunter Noggah went Survival for Gul'dan world 3rd kill and said in hindsight he should have went Survival for Starboy and Krosus too.

Survival is 4th overall for Gul'dan @90th percentile, considerably far ahead of BM. While all 3 hunter specs are basically equal for overall NH @90th percentile.

There is absolutely no reason any Mythic guild would have an issue with their hunter(s) playing Survival. If you can play the spec competently and your comp has room for a melee then Survival is a legit spec.

[Shakou]

This comment just removes any credibility you had, if any, on the subject.

Except it doesn't, you're trying to say that because a relative few hunters have been allowed to go Survival for a Mythic Gul'dan farm kill, that means it's not a complete shit spec.

Literally every single one of those parses is post 7.2 and after other recent nerfs.

No I'm afraid on the contrary you have no credibility when you're arguing in favor of something that most people do not favor, let alone when you're trying to argue that parses past your first kill mean diddly squat.

Is the spec good for progression? If the answer is no than the spec is shit. Period. End of discussion.

Thank you, buh bye now.

[Doffen]

Are you being serious right now?

Not one of those parses is from a progression kill, those are all farm kills and all of those guilds are comfortable enough to mess around and actually take a survival hunter into their group, that is why there is only a tiny fraction (literally only 215 total) of parses up at all.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...urvival&page=3

Also FYI parses actually don't matter past the first kill.

Thanks for your contribution though. lol

yeah I know how you are, and seeing your hunter hasnt even cleared heroic guldan its hard to take you seriously.

Okay, your logs isnt updated, you have in fact killed 3 bosses mythic!

[Shakou]

Oh by the way, it's only listed 4 because there are SIGNIFICANTLY LESS PARSES. That is an average intake.

- - - Updated - - -

yeah I know how you are, and seeing your hunter hasnt even cleared heroic guldan its hard to take you seriously.

Umm, there's a 99% chance I'll have Cutting Edge Tomorrow, no you don't know who I am lmfao.

1% if somehow my guild doesn't manage to kill it at all even though it's farm content. Idiot.

[Trapstarz]

I went survival for Starboi, Eli and Gul'dan while progressing and I did my job well on those 3, stop beeing a dickhead.

We are glad you won't come back "discussing"