2 explosions in Manchester Arena - CONFIRMED Fatalities.

[Templar 331]

Libyan muslim born to immigrant parents(not refugee). Pretty sure he's exactly what people are talking about still.

I know. If his skin was any shade of brown he'd be seen as a Muslim no matter where his ancestry is from. But no matter what he is we still don't have a motive for this act of terror.

[s_bushido]

You just encourage more violence by exposing your soft underbelly to macho militants. Appeasement didn't work when Chamberlain tried it on Hitler, we just got Dunkirk.

So appeasement doesn't work, but how did vengeance work with our "War on Terror" after 9/11? Oh, that's right. Hundreds of thousands of people died in the middle east, and we fucking got ISIS for our troubles. Good job!

[Shadowferal]

Have you seen any atheist claiming that all non-atheists should become atheists else they must die?

Stalin did that in the former Soviet Union and "disappeared" people by the tens of millions.
I find it sad that atheists refuse to acknowledge this shitty bit of history. Otherwise they'd learn that you can't kill an idea or belief.


Lot of images floating around...

[Deleted]

There's a difference between engaging and tackling an issue and thinking that the correct response to anger, hate and rage is more anger hate and rage.

Why is it wrong to respond with Anger and hatred to a despicable and hateful act?

[Deleted]

I said he's not an immigrant. And what does his parents being immigrants have to do with anything?

Oftentimes it's the offspring of the immigrants who commit these acts of terror, as in this case. If their offspring had never been in Britain, this wouldn't have happened. This piece of shit human being would have never have been near that stadium.

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you can never kill an idea. we killed Hitler over 70 years ago and we STILL have people who believe in his message running around. its a farce to even try, and you only give them an excuse to keep trying.

Yes. We have a very small amount of skinheads left over after annihilating the source of Nazism. We can do the same to Islamism.

[Deleted]

I said he's not an immigrant. And what does his parents being immigrants have to do with anything?

The argument being that these people, that self evidently do not integrate, should not be admitted, because them, their children, will be problems.
It's not very hard to grasp.

[Deleted]

It was not that long ago that catholics did things like this, in the UK.

I guess it's easy to blame religion or say that just one group of people are able to commit acts like this. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as that.

Yeah Cybran is being either deliberately or genuinely ignorant. Classic bigotry.

[Mayhem]

We can stop people who possess those ideals from entering my country. We can probably stop those ideals from taking as strong of a hold if we ALL stand against them. If we stop coddling theocrats. If we tell them strongly that they are wrong. And we can kill and destroy the terrorists that plan, support, and enable these attacks on our people. We can blacklist Islamist organizations from doing business with our country (as we did to communists in the past).

I'm entirely against censorship. I don't compromise on my ideals.

So you're quite unhappy with the $110 bn arms deal with saudi arabia then?

[GreenJesus]

Problem as I see it is if there's any sort of inkling of radicalization going on then the police should act. But that's a slippery slope of losing personal freedoms for people of other faiths. Seems like a lot of times these people are "known to police" but they cannot act until they actually do something. So the argument becomes are we willing to sacrifice personal freedoms so that the police can act on this people just discussing radical ideas?

If the police can't differentiate between terrorists and muslims then either the basis of the religion is wrong or the police are incompetent. If someone talks about wanting to blow people up or work for ISIS.. that isn't Islam.. there is no question they are being radicalized. If anything like that pops up you raid them.

[Deleted]

So appeasement doesn't work, but how did vengeance work with our "War on Terror" after 9/11? Oh, that's right. Hundreds of thousands of people died in the middle east, and we fucking got ISIS for our troubles. Good job!

We got ISIS because we didn't finish the job.

[Sky High]

Yes. We have a very small amount of skinheads left over after annihilating the source of Nazism. We can do the same to Islamism.

yeah how well did it go trying to stamp out Communism in Vietnam? how well has it been going trying to stamp out radical Islamism in the middle east post 9/11? the only thing I can gleam for what you're purposing is decades and decades of war and who knows millions of deaths for what? to prevent more deaths? yeah yeah have fun in your quagmire, meanwhile I'll be trying to convince the rational people over here, peace.

[Mlz]

Yes. We have a very small amount of skinheads left over after annihilating the source of Nazism. We can do the same to Islamism.

You get a healthy amount of people advocating killing people in this very same forum. They may not look like skinheads but they sure as hell think like one (blind and biased hatred, blame all shit that's happening with your country on a group of people, think your (and your friends') worldview is never-changing and should be the ultimate point of evolution all cultures want and should achieve and so on).

[Toogoodman]

I want my cake, but I also want to eat it. that's the argument you're making here.

Not really, Its a huge problem right now, and no one can sit by idol while the world burns unfortunately.

Also, saying the US started the situation in the middle east, would be a huge miscalculation, considering there has literally been war and conflict in that region since the beginning of human life, Roman occupation, the 1000 year Caliphate, crusades, Persian empire, Ottoman Empire.... etc. Were just the latest to get trapped in the endless cycle, however it is easy to look back on history and point fingers... i believe the quote is hindsight is 20/20

[Deleted]

You get a healthy amount of people advocating killing people in this very same forum. They may not look like skinheads but they sure as hell think like one (blind and biased hatred, blame all shit that's happening with your country on a group of people, think your (and your friends) worldview is never-changing and should be the ultimate point of evolution all cultures want and should achieve and so on).

You get that there is an objective difference here?
The protocols of the Elder of Zion are made up.
the 22 dead in Manchester isn't even fucking buried yet.

[Templar 331]

Oftentimes it's the offspring of the immigrants who commit these acts of terror, as in this case. If their offspring had never been in Britain, this wouldn't have happened. This piece of shit human being would have never have been near that stadium.

So the thousands upon thousands of children of immigrants are potential terrorists......Better keep all outsiders out of the country less we have another bombing.

The argument being that these people, that self evidently do not integrate, should not be admitted, because them, their children, will be problems.
It's not very hard to grasp.

Right and how many immigrants have become terrorists? How many children of immigrants out of how many thousands of immigrants over the last 20-30 years?

It's a very poor argument supported by nothing more than xenophobia.

[Dhrizzle]

Myabe you should enlighten us then? How do we deal with this situation? Cause I have not seen the anger, hate and rage these despicable acts truly deserve. Only passsive people, hoping some flags on their facebook and saying "this is not Islam" is gonna stop this.

Dunno, but the anger/hate/rage method of blowing people up isn't working to stop terrorism, in fact it's directly supporting the aims of terrorism.

[Deleted]

We got ISIS because we didn't finish the job.

You got isis because you started 'the job'.

[Dhrizzle]

Appeasing is the stupidest thing you can do against a masculine culture.

And spreading hatred and division is the worst thing you can do to stop a movement that thrives on hatred and division.

[minteK917]

Stalin did that in the former Soviet Union and "disappeared" people by the tens of millions.
I find it sad that atheists refuse to acknowledge this shitty bit of history. Otherwise they'd learn that you can't kill an idea or belief.

That old fallacy Stalin was not an atheist. Stalin was after totalitarian power. In the context of the Soviet union that meant killing all the military leaders and religious leaders. If he was after dismantling religion, he did a poor job since that once he was in total control he revived the russian orthodox church.

[Eliandal]

Real shame to hear about this, can only hope folk are coping.

I'd be interested in hearing about who converted this British born individual into such a life, its those people who I'd be concerned about. I do hope everyone keeps a level head throughout this.

Finally! A voice of reason amidst the caterwauling and epeen flaunting! I must agree with you! While I do not support the death penalty, I most definitely would not look the other way should this young mans recruiters and handlers "accidentally" walked face first into a 10 gauge shot gun being fired!