[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Keltas]

I don't have enemies. I welcome everyone to play the game. I hope they enjoy it. But why come play a game that doesn't fit what your looking for and try to change it when there are other options. I have a ton of respect for the crew that created this game. They put a lot of love into their game. They take the time to give us live letters, go on promotion tours, meet the fans. I don't see that from many devs these days. I think it's utterly disrespectful to see them called arrogant, or to bash them because their design vision is different then theirs.

And no, but I do know it's been said elsewhere revenue from the renewed success of 14, plus their mobile ventures, was able to help restart the 15 project, and kick off the 7 remake project, among other things. Stormblood has been reported to have gotten an increased budget, so heres hoping they start reinvesting more of their profits from 14 back into the game.

I'm hoping they saw the revenue drop from giving heavensward such a limited budget and understand that investing more into this game will give them even more payout.

[Resiak]

To be fair, this is an issue that you should want to remedy in WoW instead of giving up.

Blizzards stance is mythic was party finder only. Many people argued and they didn't implement it in 7.1, 7.2, and i havn't heard about it in 7.3 either. Plus, like I said, it was one of the reasons. I enjoy 14 more. I played it from release until blizard sparked my interest with legion. I came back after legion fizzled out. It's where I want to be. Wow can cater to it's playerbase all it wants.

[Deleted]

Blizzards stance is mythic was party finder only. Many people argued and they didn't implement it in 7.1, 7.2, and i havn't heard about it in 7.3 either. Plus, like I said, it was one of the reasons. I enjoy 14 more. I played it from release until blizard sparked my interest with legion. I came back after legion fizzled out. It's where I want to be. Wow can cater to it's playerbase all it wants.

Err, just to refute this, only the easy stuff in FF14 is in the DF, Ex trials on release is PF only, since you are nit picking the difficulty settings, normal modes are fully accessible in WoW just as they are in FF14, they are pretty similar in this respect and both share having to find your own group for the harder stuff.

Also to further add to this, when the ex trials do go into DF much later on, failure rate is extremely high.

[Resiak]

I'm hoping they saw the revenue drop from giving heavensward such a limited budget and understand that investing more into this game will give them even more payout.

My only concern with SB is them having another content lull after launch. That really killed the momentum. But I hope your right. The cash shop keeps getting bigger and i would spend more if I knew that I was investing in 14, and not more side projects.

[Faroth]

I don't have enemies. I welcome everyone to play the game. I hope they enjoy it. But why come play a game that doesn't fit what your looking for and try to change it when there are other options. I have a ton of respect for the crew that created this game. They put a lot of love into their game. They take the time to give us live letters, go on promotion tours, meet the fans. I don't see that from many devs these days. I think it's utterly disrespectful to see them called arrogant, or to bash them because their design vision is different then theirs.

I've never heard of Metzen spending 1.5 hours of the "30 minutes available" to sign autographs and take pictures with fans. Yoshida has. They're both treated like rock stars at events and I have immense respect for both of them, but Yoshida does come across as so amazingly humbled at events.

His handlers were rushing him off at the first Fan Fest because they were running late to prep for a panel. A woman in a wheel chair spotted him and her face lit up, waving to him. He didn't just wave to her, he shrugged off everyone around him to go say hello to her, sign something for her and take a photo with her.

At the last Fan Fest, he came down to sit on the edge of the stage and signed autographs before their panel started just because someone walked up in hopes of getting their lore book signed (a line quickly formed after that) and he signed everything he could until they were ready to start and I think he got back to some folks to sign theirs afterwards.

Yoshida is a man who was moved to tears when apologizing for the poor result of 1.0, a project he had nothing to do with. He's choked up and come to tears during live letters. Hell, he choked up when apologizing for the Heavensward released delay (a whole week late of the "spring" release).

The in-game anniversary was one big "we owe everything to you, we can't begin to emphasize how much this only exists because of you" letter.

Arrogant doesn't remotely come to mind for me.

[Wrecktangle]

I don't have enemies. I welcome everyone to play the game. I hope they enjoy it. But why come play a game that doesn't fit what your looking for and try to change it when there are other options. I have a ton of respect for the crew that created this game. They put a lot of love into their game. They take the time to give us live letters, go on promotion tours, meet the fans. I don't see that from many devs these days. I think it's utterly disrespectful to see them called arrogant, or to bash them because their design vision is different then theirs.

And no, but I do know it's been said elsewhere revenue from the renewed success of 14, plus their mobile ventures, was able to help restart the 15 project, and kick off the 7 remake project, among other things. Stormblood has been reported to have gotten an increased budget, so heres hoping they start reinvesting more of their profits from 14 back into the game.

Here's the thing though that you're missing. These people WANT to come to this game. They may like a ton of stuff about it from watching videos/streams, etc., but they tried the trial and were so bored or lonely they gave up. They don't want to change the game away from what it is. They want to see it improved, we all do. While you may not agree with improvements suggested by these players, that's fine, but debate the content of their posts not this ideology that they want to change your game.

I too have a ton of respect for the people behind this game, but I also see it can be so much better.

I also agree that calling them arrogant was childish on his part. I do not agree with his approach, but his stance has merit, which I previously covered.

This right here.

Man, this sushi place is good and all... but they don't have pizza. Why would they NOT have pizza?!?! And who wants to eat raw fish anyway? I tried to get some of my friends to come here with me, but none of them like raw fish either...

See above.

Blizzards stance is mythic was party finder only. Many people argued and they didn't implement it in 7.1, 7.2, and i havn't heard about it in 7.3 either. Plus, like I said, it was one of the reasons. I enjoy 14 more. I played it from release until blizard sparked my interest with legion. I came back after legion fizzled out. It's where I want to be. Wow can cater to it's playerbase all it wants.

The point I was making is that Blizzard makes mistakes too. I've long discussed on their forums about the nonsense that is server limited Mythic locks, and raiding, etc. I've also long criticized their complete lack of QA department. I could go on for days about their games shortcomings and wishlists, etc.

As a legion player even if Blizz's stance was mythic PF only, that doesn't mean its the best decision for players.

[Granyala]

Wooo Ninja 60.
Now only 27 levels of MCH remain.
Ugh what a weird class.

[Resiak]

Err, just to refute this, only the easy stuff in FF14 is in the DF, Ex trials on release is PF only, since you are nit picking the difficulty settings, normal modes are fully accessible in WoW just as they are in FF14, they are pretty similar in this respect and both share having to find your own group for the harder stuff.

They end up in the DF though. It might take a couple months, but they get there. Wow has no intent on putting mythic normal in the dungeon finder. Which means getting the quests done that require mythic dungeons put me at the whim of other players choosing me over the 500 other dps signing up for spots. You missed the entire context of that discussion and it was not a comparison between how 14 uses the party finder versus how wow uses it.

[Deleted]

I've never heard of Metzen spending 1.5 hours of the "30 minutes available" to sign autographs and take pictures with fans. Yoshida has. They're both treated like rock stars at events and I have immense respect for both of them, but Yoshida does come across as so amazingly humbled at events.

His handlers were rushing him off at the first Fan Fest because they were running late to prep for a panel. A woman in a wheel chair spotted him and her face lit up, waving to him. He didn't just wave to her, he shrugged off everyone around him to go say hello to her, sign something for her and take a photo with her.

At the last Fan Fest, he came down to sit on the edge of the stage and signed autographs before their panel started just because someone walked up in hopes of getting their lore book signed (a line quickly formed after that) and he signed everything he could until they were ready to start and I think he got back to some folks to sign theirs afterwards.

Yoshida is a man who was moved to tears when apologizing for the poor result of 1.0, a project he had nothing to do with. He's choked up and come to tears during live letters. Hell, he choked up when apologizing for the Heavensward released delay (a whole week late of the "spring" release).

The in-game anniversary was one big "we owe everything to you, we can't begin to emphasize how much this only exists because of you" letter.

Arrogant doesn't remotely come to mind for me.

Those 2 aren't even the same role of jobs, however as the first thing I could find;



I haven't been to blizzcon, doesnt sound like you have either, so we don't know how involved the staff are.

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They end up in the DF though. It might take a couple months, but they get there. Wow has no intent on putting mythic normal in the dungeon finder. Which means getting the quests done that require mythic dungeons put me at the whim of other players choosing me over the 500 other dps signing up for spots. You missed the entire context of that discussion and it was not a comparison between how 14 uses the party finder versus how wow uses it.

Actually as you brought up WoW, the point I made is entirely relevant, also just because it goes into DF doesn't mean anything as it doesn't mean you will get it done anytime soon, the failure rate in DF for Ex trials is extremely high so you aren't exactly making progress, context matters here and you have ignored the most important part.

[Resiak]

Actually as you brought up WoW, the point I made is entirely relevant, also just because it goes into DF doesn't mean anything as it doesn't mean you will get it done anytime soon, the failure rate in DF is extremely high so you aren't exactly making progress, context matters here and you have ignored the most important part.

But what your saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about WoW. I brought up wow as a point that there was a feature, that was keeping me from making progress in the game, and instead of complaining and trying to force the devs to change it, I moved on. It literally had nothing to do with that comparison of 14s duty finder versus wows. 0. Zilch. I never brought up how 14 handles end game content.

[Wrecktangle]

But what your saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about WoW. I brought up wow as a point that there was a feature, that was keeping me from making progress in the game, and instead of complaining and trying to force the devs to change it, I moved on. It literally had nothing to do with that comparison of 14s duty finder versus wows. 0. Zilch. I never brought up how 14 handles end game content.

That's the difference between me and you though (say a WoW player and a FF14 player). I'm upset that you left. I'm sad that you left because of that feature.

You're taking the stance of well good riddance, never wanted you here anyway. It's not for you.

Now this doesn't apply to me personally as a player of both games, but merely an exercise in why WE as players SHOULD care and not just give up.

[Deleted]

But what your saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I said about WoW. I brought up wow as a point that there was a feature, that was keeping me from making progress in the game, and instead of complaining and trying to force the devs to change it, I moved on. It literally had nothing to do with that comparison of 14s duty finder versus wows. 0. Zilch. I never brought up how 14 handles end game content.

You actually did a comparison between the 2, you don't think you have but you did.

Actually its your self thats keeping your self from making progress within the game, you can easily make groups or hell, ask on your own server, you only have your self to blame, plenty of people have done what ever quest is needed but I should also add, what quests are you talking about that requires progress in mythic dungeons?

Mean for example, the tailoring quest that requires you to go into Karazhan can be done on hc and not mythic, if you are talking about the mission items, well thats not progressing the game, thats bonus items. You context is off massively here, your issue stems from wanting to que up on DF for anything in the game which doesn't exist properly in FF14 either.

Failure rate for ex trials in FF14 is extremely high despite it being on DF months later, so no progress here or very unlikely to progress here, success rate for Mythics in WoW is actually decent due to less anonymity, people are once again held to a standard publicly.

I should add, mythic dungeons is end game content, theres a reason why theres the + that go alongside it, I have provided very valid comparisons and equivalents.

[Resiak]

Here's the thing though that you're missing. These people WANT to come to this game. They may like a ton of stuff about it from watching videos/streams, etc., but they tried the trial and were so bored or lonely they gave up. They don't want to change the game away from what it is. They want to see it improved, we all do. While you may not agree with improvements suggested by these players, that's fine, but debate the content of their posts not this ideology that they want to change your game.

I too have a ton of respect for the people behind this game, but I also see it can be so much better.

I also agree that calling them arrogant was childish on his part. I do not agree with his approach, but his stance has merit, which I previously covered.

As Faroth said, the MSQ is the entire identity of the game though. The entire game is wrapped around it. The dungeons are build around it, including the cut scenes that occur after them. The trials, the raids. Everything is connected to the MSQ. Theres no magic switch at 60 where the end game just changes everything. It's a constant build. We don't want to see that identity suffer.

[Deleted]

As Faroth said, the MSQ is the entire identity of the game though. The entire game is wrapped around it. The dungeons are build around it, including the cut scenes that occur after them. The trials, the raids. Everything is connected to the MSQ. Theres no magic switch at 60 where the end game just changes everything. It's a constant build. We don't want to see that identity suffer.

Not all dungeons are tied to the MSQ, I don't recall Pharos being part of the main story line, Coil was not tied to the main story nor Alexander and most of the trials in 3.0 were not tied to the main story.

[Katchii]

Dpsing as a healer is optional, that is a cold hard fact. I never said it doesn't make dungeons go faster but for the average player you're not speedrunning and they're not dpsing. Unless you're doing raids or pushing savage content then who the fuck cares if the healer isn't dpsing anyways. You kids need to get over yourselves about saying a healer HAS to dps or they're bad.

For me it has nothing to do with being good or bad, per se, it's a respect thing. If they're literally standing there doing nothing for long periods of time, while everyone else is hitting buttons and doing damage in an effort to move the dungeon along, it's pretty selfish and disrespectful to just stand there and let the rest of the group do the work while you sit on your thumb watching Neflix or whatever. There's nothing stopping you from throwing in some DPS except a personal decision that is directly affecting the rest of the group, and the fact that you'd literally rather do nothing but watch your group do the work than hit a few extra buttons do move things along...especially when your job is equipped with spells and abilities that are meant to be used for DPS...that's just plain rude IMO.

It's similar to being at a friends house waiting for them to show up with the food or whatever, and then just sitting there watching everyone else bring it in, set-up the table, get drinks ready and stuff doing all while nothing but maybe closing the door after everyone comes in yet still enjoying the food and drinks.

[Resiak]

You actually did a comparison between the 2, you don't think you have but you did.

Actually its your self thats keeping your self from making progress within the game, you can easily make groups or hell, ask on your own server, you only have your self to blame, plenty of people have done what ever quest is needed but I should also add, what quests are you talking about that requires progress in mythic dungeons?

Mean for example, the tailoring quest that requires you to go into Karazhan can be done on hc and not mythic, if you are talking about the mission items, well thats not progressing the game, thats bonus items. You context is off massively here, your issue stems from wanting to que up on DF for anything in the game which doesn't exist properly in FF14 either.

Failure rate for ex trials in FF14 is extremely high despite it being on DF months later, so no progress here or very unlikely to progress here, success rate for Mythics in WoW is actually decent due to less anonymity, people are once again held to a standard publicly.

I should add, mythic dungeons is end game content, theres a reason why theres the + that go alongside it, I have provided very valid comparisons and equivalents.

Fine, i'll go ahead and play along. Warlocks didn't get love in party finder. I didn't get accepted over the other dps, and the couple times i tried starting a group, no one joined. Or two more dps joined and we sat there. Could I have tried hard, done a couple more things? Yes. But I'm not the most social person. And while your sitting in the party finder window, looking at candidates, or trying to join groups, your not doing anything else. So if you spend an hour trying to get a group together, you didnt do anything else. But when you use the dungeon finder, you put yourself in the q, and do off and do what you want for 15 minutes. What sounds more appealing?

As for the why i needed mythics. The artifact appearance quest. The souls for the illidan quest. Those where the two last quests I had. I had a raid group. We completed heroic EN, HOV, while relevant, and where working on heroic NH when I quit. But another reason I left and came is because no one played when not raiding. They where obssessed with Overwatch. I couldnt get them to come on wow for dungeons. So my guild wasnt an option.

As for 14. Thats simple, I dont play it like I did wow. My days of organized raiding our done. Too old, have a family. Trying to raid again in wow was causing issues...a 3rd reason to move on. So I don't care when ex primals are in df, i havnt done higher then bismark. I've never done a savage mode. I'm working through the creator series. And have yet to do Dun Scathe. So how 14 handles the df versus the pf does not matter to me.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

Even with these changes I bet you shit healers still wont dps

I'm aware of those... issue doesnt particularly concern me with my ps4 license is up to Heavensward although the pc (on same account) is just ARR cause figured $9 for additional 30 days

Still doesnt address the issue of just ARR only buying these things that find out they have to buy something else for it to work... as dumb that sounds

Imagine if buying WoW (just the base edition) only gave classic to MoP so doesnt included WoD and they sell level 100 boost only... thats the problem FFXIV will have

Which is complete bullshit and doesn't factor in community mindset one bit.
If people do all they can, they tend to get annoyed if another dude just stands there and leeches of their effort.

I don't expect every player to be elite skilled, hell I fuck up myself all the time, it happens. I do expect everyone to adhere to one simple rule:
A B C. Always Be Casting. Simple as that. Don't waste GCD by standing around and doing nothing.

I don't think playing the game actively is unreasonable to ask.

BTW: ever tried to DPS as a Holy Priest in WoW? Holy Nova rocks on big pulls.

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thought as much.

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Last time I checked, a player has to be able to use ALL of his classes toolkit in order to be considered "good".
Yah that includes filling downtime with as much DPS as possible w/o putting others at risk.

If you are not good, you are bad. Simple logic.

It's not that black and white as your last line; there are decent players, bad players, and top tier players. You are saying if you aren't in the major leagues you suck, just isn't true, some play for fun, for some its work.

You know what hat they could do for healers? Make damage mana neutral or mana positive. How good are you if you are oom? About as good as the dead dps is at their job. Holy spam eats mana fast, spreading dots eats a decent amount as well. Hell, another direction instead of the one they took, if they wanted to truly encourage damage output, would've been to make damage spells return mana in cleric stance.

You know when standing around not using every possible gcd is a good thing? When you need the mana; in fact, one point in wow mo5 was a thing and you had to stop casting for 5 seconds I think for it to kick in. So, rough group, assize and shroud is on cd, you have 20% mana, the boss is far from dead, you still going to burn up that 20% mana because you can't sit still for a second?

It is a dynamic, reactionary, learned thing. You learn the fights, you assess your group, you make decisions based on how it is going on the fly. ABC can make you sol some times. Is a wipe because you went oom or were stuck on cleric stance cooldown faster with the run back than maybe doing a few less dots/stones/holy? Can you afford to burn 40% of your mana on an aero 3 plus a few holy on adds/trash? Will you be able to keep up with the following pack or have enough room for a human making a mistake?

Don't get me wrong; a co healer doing fuck all is annoying, I'd accept even stoneskin spam over them admiring the spell effect overdose on the boss. I even made someone switch to tank from heals by stressing it is important in farm content to dps when possible as a healer, and they were old school wow heals only heal type. They happen to enjoy tanking and are much more engaged and involved with maximizing mitigation and output, so win win imo. I just don't agree with a blaxck/white hardfast rules and judgement on a role that by nature has to be the most flexible, reactive, and predictive at the same time, while doing all the dancing mechanics. The group literally lives and dies by this role alone, they should be thankful for our help with damage, and we should be modest but proud of our contributions to a team.

[Katchii]

Not all dungeons are tied to the MSQ, I don't recall Pharos being part of the main story line, Coil was not tied to the main story nor Alexander and most of the trials in 3.0 were not tied to the main story.

You're correct they weren't directly connected to the MSQ, however all of those things still had stories or entire story lines connected to them, they weren't JUST a random dungeon that's there. The idea is simply that story and narrative are central themes in FFXIV, which just happen to also be parallel with good gameplay.

It's obviously possible to like one and not the other, or like one more than the other, but the argument I see occur more often is the crowd that enjoys gameplay more than story is more than willing to let story suffer or disappear in favor of more/ better game play whereas the opposite is not an argument I've ever seen. People who enjoy the story don't argue (at least I have never seen it) that game play should suffer in order to have more story.

FFXIV strikes a good balance between both aspects, I don't want to see that balance upset.

[Faroth]

Those 2 aren't even the same role of jobs, however as the first thing I could find;

[Faroth snip for size]

I haven't been to blizzcon, doesnt sound like you have either, so we don't know how involved the staff are.

I have been to Blizzcon, thanks. And I didn't say Metzen never did autographs or interacted. I said I've never heard of him doing so for an hour past what they allotted for him to do so. They're not the same job, but they're the same position as the devleopment "face of the team" (until recent years as Metzen became less seen before his retirement/semi-retirement).

One time was enough for me, though. Having the Blizzard band shouting "Fuck the Alliance" on stage wasn't as entertaining as seeing Koji-Fox attempt a live performance of hat-swapping Moogle Mog with the Primals.

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Not all dungeons are tied to the MSQ, I don't recall Pharos being part of the main story line, Coil was not tied to the main story nor Alexander and most of the trials in 3.0 were not tied to the main story.

Not the main story, true, but they do all have their own storylines. Coils of Bahamut is actually the only storyline in the game to have a full pre-rendered CG cut scene included where the rest use in-game engine cut scenes. While they aren't linked to the MSQ as a requirement, they, and even other aspects of the game, still put story and lore as a forefront in the development thought process.

However, I will reiterate @Katchii, myself, and others in agreement are talking philosophical semantics at this point. From the developer's decision, we're wrong. The MSQ isn't as important as we thought and can be skipped and ignored. If you think the story is BS and pointless, you've got what you wanted and it's totally optional at the cost of a one-time fee.

I'm just curious what will be requested next. Already seen "the MSQ skip should be free to anyone who wants to skip it" as the immediate response. I'm guessing MSQ should be totally optional in brand new content will be the next request.

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

Even with these changes I bet you shit healers still wont dps

I'm aware of those... issue doesnt particularly concern me with my ps4 license is up to Heavensward although the pc (on same account) is just ARR cause figured $9 for additional 30 days

Still doesnt address the issue of just ARR only buying these things that find out they have to buy something else for it to work... as dumb that sounds

Imagine if buying WoW (just the base edition) only gave classic to MoP so doesnt included WoD and they sell level 100 boost only... thats the problem FFXIV will have

For me it has nothing to do with being good or bad, per se, it's a respect thing. If they're literally standing there doing nothing for long periods of time, while everyone else is hitting buttons and doing damage in an effort to move the dungeon along, it's pretty selfish and disrespectful to just stand there and let the rest of the group do the work while you sit on your thumb watching Neflix or whatever. There's nothing stopping you from throwing in some DPS except a personal decision that is directly affecting the rest of the group, and the fact that you'd literally rather do nothing but watch your group do the work than hit a few extra buttons do move things along...especially when your job is equipped with spells and abilities that are meant to be used for DPS...that's just plain rude IMO.

It's similar to being at a friends house waiting for them to show up with the food or whatever, and then just sitting there watching everyone else bring it in, set-up the table, get drinks ready and stuff doing all while nothing but maybe closing the door after everyone comes in yet still enjoying the food and drinks.

You have to realize that for some, cleric stance itself is intimidating. I know, hard to believe, but that 5 second cd; or forgetting to clear it, or thinking you cleared to but it didn't take. Newer players will not take to it well until they get very comfortable with their entire toolkit and know they won't let someone die because they tried to help out. It can't be looked at only from the angle of decade seasoned healers, mmorpgers. Not only that, but you have to remember people are different in general; some are naturally nervous and apprehensive, they will be more hesitant about most things and that can apply to your social gathering example as well. They may not want to get in the way, not want to grab stuff out of aomeone else's vehicle, know where to put things; they may just overthink it all, doesn't make them a bad person.