A Question For Trump Supporters. Is Everyone Lying?

[Nadiru]

Here are a couple of things that are not allegations, they are a matter of facts.

Individuals associated with the Trump Campaign did have repeated contact with Russian state actors. Russia has utilized active measures to interfere with the US domestic affairs, including our elections. Russia has a history of doing so, and those measures have included blackmail. The CIA director at the time found sufficient reason to refer the intelligence that was being gathered by the Agency to the FBI for investigation.

All of what I have said is information that was part of a public hearing by the House Intelligence Committee earlier today.

At least half of that statement is allegation, and not even an allegation against Trump, merely against Russia. Knowing Russia is a bad guy does not inherently prove Trump to be culpable, which is where I see people keep jumping the gun/shark/sharkgun.

[Lionhearte0]

Where are the articles dispelling the myths? I would like to read them. There should be conservative outlets that contradict the lies and slanders put out by the MSM?, right?

For crying out loud, James Clapper (under oath), John Brennan(under oath), Diane Fienstein, Maxine Waters and Joe Manchin all said there was no evidence of collusion. Nancy Pelosi even said impeachment is pretty much out of the question.

What do all of you want? a handwritten note from Obama saying Trump is clear? If Mueller comes back and says there's nothing there, will you all get off of Trump's cock or will you guys say he was paid off?

[Nadiru]

For crying out loud, James Clapper (under oath), John Brennan(under oath), Diane Fienstein, Maxine Waters and Joe Manchin all said there was no evidence of collusion. Nancy Pelosi even said impeachment is pretty much out of the question.

What do all of you want? a handwritten note from Obama saying Trump is clear? If Mueller comes back and says there's nothing there, will you all get off of Trump's cock or will you guys say he was paid off?

They'll say Mueller was paid off. This game can never be allowed to end because letting it end means acknowledging a horrendously flawed Democrat Party and I'm guessing about a score of year's worth of energy that has to be directed inwards to clear out the dreck instead of fighting the good fight against the GOP.

[schwy]

Has anything Trump done affected you personally?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

At least half of that statement is allegation, and not even an allegation against Trump, merely against Russia. Knowing Russia is a bad guy does not inherently prove Trump to be culpable, which is where I see people keep jumping the gun/shark/sharkgun.

None of the statements that I made in that post are allegations, they are a matter of public record as they were all said in an open hearing by the House Intelligence Committee.


Now for my own opinion: I do not believe that Trump colluded with Russia, for a variety of reasons. I do think that Trump may be guilty of obstruction of justice with regards to interfering in an on-going investigation. Remember this: Nixon wasn't impeached for Watergate, he was impeached as a result of the coverup he participated in.

I believe that Trump may have backed himself into a corner, and anyone found guilty of a crime might try to throw Trump under the bus to save their own skin. This is speculation that I'm drawing from Michael Flynn refusing to provide documents when requested, and then pleading the 5th when those documents were subpoenaed. Now Michael Flynn's companies are being subpoenaed by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Depending on what is found in those documents, I believe that Michael Flynn could face criminal charges. If he is charged, I do believe he would try to seek to turn evidence on others in an effort to protect himself. I draw this conclusion from the fact that Michael Flynn asked for immunity several weeks ago.

The italicized portions of my post are opinion and speculation

[Rukh]

Just like during the civil rights era, there's going to be a whole lot of Trump supporters that find themselves on the wrong side of history. They'll never admit it though.

[Nadiru]

None of the statements that I made in that post are allegations, they are a matter of public record as they were all said in an open hearing by the House Intelligence Committee.

A thing can be both public record and an allegation. In fact, the cross-section is pretty high.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

A thing can be both public record and an allegation. In fact, the cross-section is pretty high.

I don't deny that, however the specifics that I referred to in that post are not allegations. They are facts that were presented in that public hearing. If you doubt my claim, you can test the veracity of my statements by examining the evidence I provided to back up the facts I presented.

[Glnger]

You're asking the people that voted for a guy that claims Climate Change is a Chinese conspiracy? that 97% of the worlds scientist agree is real?

I'm doing some work for my neighbor; he voted for Trump. He's fun to talk to but I purposely avoid politics with him, He's convinced that all of this Russia stuff is the "establishment" going after him, and that Trump is actually for the people. I bring up the medicare/medicaid cuts, and the trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthy, all being Republican 101 and there's no answer.

[Heladys]

Everyone working for or supporting Trump is lying.

[Ahhdurr]

Everybody is lying except me, Trump. Trump has the best information that only Trump can have. Do not believe what they lying sad fake media is saying!

Dumpsters don't need facts. Their 'feels' are the truth. So I guess they're all special snowflakes.

[Nadiru]

None of the statements that I made in that post are allegations, they are a matter of public record as they were all said in an open hearing by the House Intelligence Committee.


Now for my own opinion: I do not believe that Trump colluded with Russia, for a variety of reasons. I do think that Trump may be guilty of obstruction of justice with regards to interfering in an on-going investigation. Remember this: Nixon wasn't impeached for Watergate, he was impeached as a result of the coverup he participated in.

I believe that Trump may have backed himself into a corner, and anyone found guilty of a crime might try to throw Trump under the bus to save their own skin. This is speculation that I'm drawing from Michael Flynn refusing to provide documents when requested, and then pleading the 5th when those documents were subpoenaed. Now Michael Flynn's companies are being subpoenaed by the Senate Intelligence Committee. Depending on what is found in those documents, I believe that Michael Flynn could face criminal charges. If he is charged, I do believe he would try to seek to turn evidence on others in an effort to protect himself. I draw this conclusion from the fact that Michael Flynn asked for immunity several weeks ago.

The italicized portions of my post are opinion and speculation

Pleading the Fifth is not an admission of guilt, even if Flynn himself thinks it is. To say otherwise is to reintroduce the specter of McCarthyism and the Red Scares into public discourse again. We're not even done with calling our political rivals terrorist-abettors, let alone bringing in "the Russkies" back into the mix

[Ahhdurr]

Pleading the Fifth is not an admission of guilt, even if Flynn himself thinks it is. To say otherwise is to reintroduce the specter of McCarthyism and the Red Scares into public discourse again. We're not even done with calling our political rivals terrorist-abettors, let alone bringing in "the Russkies" back into the mix

Pleading the 5th is only for people who are guilty as fuck. He may not be guilty in a court. but for public opinion.. ya he's guilty as all hell.

[Nadiru]

Pleading the 5th is only for people who are guilty as fuck. He may not be guilty in a court. but for public opinion.. ya he's guilty as all hell.

That's an atrocious opinion to hold.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

That's an atrocious opinion to hold.

So, do you want to try to do some mental gymnastics to address this?

[Nadiru]

So, do you want to try to do some mental gymnastics to address this?

I don't have to, since I don't agree with his position on the Fifth Amendment. I'm also not fond of his defunding environmental cleanup programs in the Great Lakes.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

@Nadiru
I thank you for taking the time to engage in civil conversation with me. Too often it seems that political discussions in the internet devolve into mere mud-slinging(from both sides), so I'm happy to have had this exchange with you.

[Deja Thoris]

Pleading the Fifth is not an admission of guilt, even if Flynn himself thinks it is. To say otherwise is to reintroduce the specter of McCarthyism and the Red Scares into public discourse again. We're not even done with calling our political rivals terrorist-abettors, let alone bringing in "the Russkies" back into the mix

It's not an admission of guilt but its not far off. You're basically saying if you open your mouth you're going to incriminate yourself. Put another way, do innocent people take the 5th?

[Nadiru]

It's not an admission of guilt but its not far off. You're basically saying if you open your mouth you're going to incriminate yourself. Put another way, do innocent people take the 5th?

Yes, innocent people take the fifth, especially in circumstances where the evidence of wrongdoing is murky. Prosecutors are strictly forbidden from asking a jury to assume guilt in the face of a 5A plea, and this ruling was affirmed at least twice by the Supreme Court over the years.

[Edge-]

It's not an admission of guilt but its not far off. You're basically saying if you open your mouth you're going to incriminate yourself. Put another way, do innocent people take the 5th?

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...erner-irs.html

Yes (the example in the article).