2 explosions in Manchester Arena - CONFIRMED Fatalities.

[kamuimac]

We can demand them to obey our laws but we cannot demand them to stop being who they are.

well then they can go back and be who they are in their homeland - we dont need them here.

especially if they are a possible terrorist threat.

look a Japan - they have no problem banning muslims from possesion of land or permanent permit to stay - and they have no problms with islamic terrorists.

[Granyala]

I assume you read the news about muslim underage marriages in Australia, right?

Not too concerned with Australia, to be honest.
If they break the law, they'll get punished. Just like everyone else.
But we don't universally condemn all muslims from the start.

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look a Japan - they have no problem banning muslims from possesion of land or permanent permit to stay - and they have no problms with islamic terrorists.

Probably because Japan isn't all that interesting to Jihadists.
Not as long as the West is still the primary enemy.

[Strangebrew]

*snippy snip*

Infracted - minor spam

[Drpizka]

Not too concerned with Australia, to be honest.
If they break the law, they'll get punished. Just like everyone else.
But we don't universally condemn all muslims from the start.

Sorry, but I have seen many things from them the last decade. I don't think that they care about punishment. They only care about their holy book. If their god says that marrying 9 year old kids is ok, they will continue doing so.

[Sarevokcz]

Sorry, honey. It doesn't work that way.
A human being can't just shed decades of indoctrination and cultural influence like a mantle. This takes generations to slowly erode.

Gen 1 is typically a lost cause.
Gen 2 has chances but is still too heavily influenced by Gen 1.
Gen 3 starts to assimilate.

We can demand them to obey our laws but we cannot demand them to stop being who they are.

you know, the problem is who they are is often in direct contradiction to our laws. And instead of enforcing those laws, we bend the laws and rules to suit them. like holy shit, some cities banning easter celebrations because muslims could be offended? and we are supposed to just accept that. But when its the other way around its about their religion, they start screaming racism and xenophobia and somehow get their way. does that sound logical to you?

[Granyala]

Sorry, but I have seen many things from them the last decade. I don't think that they care about punishment. They only care about their holy book. If their god says that marrying 9 year old kids is ok, they will continue doing so.

According to Quran, the laws of nonbelievers do not apply to them.
So yes, it's on us to enforce them w/o mercy.

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you know, the problem is who they are is often in direct contradiction to our laws. And instead of enforcing those laws, we bend the laws and rules to suit them. like holy shit, some cities banning easter celebrations because muslims could be offended? and we are supposed to just accept that. But when its the other way around its about their religion, they start screaming racism and xenophobia and somehow get their way. does that sound logical to you?

Agreed, giving in is definitely the wrong thing to do.

[Drpizka]

According to Quran, the laws of nonbelievers do not apply to them.
So yes, it's on us to enforce them w/o mercy.

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Agreed, giving in is definitely the wrong thing to do.

Bingo mate. Then they are free to return where the non-believers laws do not exist.


After all, there are many modern muslim countries around the world. Why don't they immigrate there?

[Mayhem]

Religion is not the problem?

Read this. I saw it on twitter today, happened in Athens, Greece. I am giving you the translation.

Moderate Iranian office worker, speaking to a Greek office worker, and trying to justify the terrorist:

Iranian: He was provoked because the singer was half-naked.
Greek: So, don't watch her. What the babies had to do with that?
I: They were not babies!
G: 8 years old mate, like your son.
I: So why did they go?
G: you can forbid them to amuse thesmselves
I: yes but the quran forbids it!
G: so, you may not go. Why do you care how the infidels are amused?
I: yes but the quran says... etc etc

They follow a a book written on the 7th century blindly. It is 100% about their religion.

In my opinion, if refugees want to immigrate to a foreign country, they should follow the lifestyle and customs of that country. Else, they can stay to their original country, we don't need their customs and lifestyle here.

So you want to kick out children of immigrants who are legal residents of your country?

If religion was the problem and not how it is used by the people in power, how come Iran in the 60s and 70s looks like USA in the 60s and 70s, but after a coup by the religious nuts it went to hell. A democratic government, turned dictatorship by foreign forces then turned to a democratic theocracy. So how is it about their religion? Were the iranians not muslims befor the revolution?

[Independent voter]

Police arrested three men in south Manchester on Wednesday.

The UK terror threat level is now up to its highest level of "critical", meaning more attacks may be imminent.

I guess the investigation found evidence that it's a more widespread organized attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40023488

[Exeris]

I keep asking what more those posters want and none can seem to come up with an actual solution that isnt "kill/ban/deport" all Muslims.

I'm not one of those posters but I would like to see regular mental checks for people that come from war torn countries or have grown up experiencing horrible things or if their parents have such experience.

That is also something I would like to have for all children, parents often make mistakes and it would be nice to be able to help their children before they do permanent damage to them that can end in suicide or the death of others.

[ParanoiD84]

Religion is not the problem?

Read this. I saw it on twitter today, happened in Athens, Greece. I am giving you the translation.

Moderate Iranian office worker, speaking to a Greek office worker, and trying to justify the terrorist:

Iranian: He was provoked because the singer was half-naked.
Greek: So, don't watch her. What the babies had to do with that?
I: They were not babies!
G: 8 years old mate, like your son.
I: So why did they go?
G: you can forbid them to amuse thesmselves
I: yes but the quran forbids it!
G: so, you may not go. Why do you care how the infidels are amused?
I: yes but the quran says... etc etc

They follow a a book written on the 7th century blindly. It is 100% about their religion.

In my opinion, if refugees want to immigrate to a foreign country, they should follow the lifestyle and customs of that country. Else, they can stay to their original country, we don't need their customs and lifestyle here.

lol what a idiot, yeah they follow that shit to blindly with no thought whatsoever.

If they changed the texts to say they should go kill themselves they would do it.

Maby they need another reform the Wahhabism one didnt take so good.

[Mayhem]

They are free to worship their religion, back in their home country. If they immigrate, they have to adapt to the new country. They have no right to demand that we become like them.

Freedom of Religion, unless it's Islam, then fuck off! Nice.

[Independent voter]

I'm not one of those posters but I would like to see regular mental checks for people that come from war torn countries or have grown up experiencing horrible things or if their parents have such experience.

That is also something I would like to have for all children, parents often make mistakes and it would be nice to be able to help their children before they do permanent damage to them that can end in suicide or the death of others.

I doubt a mental test could pick it up or nothing a religious person couldn't hide.. A mental problem would mean that they have symptoms they can't hide. Anyone can become religious. A lot of these bombers were non-religious in the past and suddenly became ultra-religious.

It would be interesting to see if such a test could weed out the religious who are going to commit terrorist attacks. There are some ethical questions as well.

[Jessicka]

So once again, it turns out the terrorist was locally born. When are people going to stop conflating this terrorism with immigration, and proposing policies of shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted as if it would change anything?

You're treating locally born and raised people as different, as immigrants themselves, saying they should be deported to a land they've never been to and never known, and then questioning why they find it hard to integrate?

[Drpizka]

So you want to kick out children of immigrants who are legal residents of your country?

If religion was the problem and not how it is used by the people in power, how come Iran in the 60s and 70s looks like USA in the 60s and 70s, but after a coup by the religious nuts it went to hell. A democratic government, turned dictatorship by foreign forces then turned to a democratic theocracy. So how is it about their religion? Were the iranians not muslims befor the revolution?

And who exactly controls the muslims right now? Iran was a modern country yes, and it moved backwards. But the terrorists are not citizens of a single country.

The muslims have lost our trust on them with these actions. You don't know who is going to be the next one to attack.

The first step is to stop accepting muslim refugees. They can go to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman etc if they want a better lifestyle. The west is a place that they cannot adapt, we have different laws and customs

[Deleted]

Freedom of Religion, unless it's Islam, then fuck off! Nice.

well see freedom of religion is a mutual rule.
Everyone agreed that religion is personal, and therefore the state should stay out of it.
But a certain religion, who shall not be named, Do not think religion is personal - At which point i have zero compunction to use the state to suppress them.

[Drpizka]

Freedom of Religion, unless it's Islam, then fuck off! Nice.

Sorry, but they left us no alternative. And I think Japan has actually deployed such a policy.

[Deleted]

So once again, it turns out the terrorist was locally born. When are people going to stop conflating this terrorism with immigration

Because, he evidently did not integrate - Which is a noticeable trend with, Some, immigrant communities, they don't want to integrate.
And then i don't want them - I just wish his parents, who also evidently didn't integrate hadn't been admitted.

[Jessicka]

Because, he evidently did not integrate - Which is a noticeable trend with, Some, immigrant communities, they don't want to integrate.
And then i don't want them - I just wish his parents, who also evidently didn't integrate hadn't been admitted.

His parents actually did try to take him back to Libya. Strangely enough, that didn't work out either.

[gargarr]

This is basically what we do already. Innocent until proven guilty.
We don't arrest people before they do sth. illegal. We do it AFTER they broke the law.
Granted that's not very effective in the case of exploding fanatics.

No. This is not what I mean.

Immgrants from other countries are welcome. However, you are coming to a western state. Leave your islamic beliefs at the gate. It is fine if you don't want to. But you won't be granted help and shelter until you leave behind the religion that caused this mess in the first place.