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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    But autoshot clipping was a thing, but I'm bot sure which bow speed was better or at least if some degree of attackspeed could change it, I remember faster ones being better because of that though.

    the 3.0 bow could turn into a 2:1 rotation real quick.. at least thats how I remember it.
    So basically Toppy didn't get that right either and a 3.0 bow is actually worse because you'd be clipping autoshots a lot.
    Ya, this is accurate. With Thori'dal hunters could achieve a 1:1 (which in simple terms meant your attack speed was brought down to 1 second, and you had a 1 second steady shot and 1 second in between auto attacks so you never clipped auto shots) rotation very easily.

    This thread is making miss actually having to know how to play the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    you said sorry to him, not me >_> and i was simply asking for you to say sorry to "ME" because of calling me an idiot non stop for the last 9 posts
    And ya, the way some of y'all treat people around here is ridiculous. That's basically why I chimed in here, not just the information being 100% wrong.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    I know a lot of you like to scratch hairs over this kind of stuff but this is wrong and you should feel bad for spreading it. Misinformation at it's finest.
    What this bow did was it made steady shot your #1 dmg contributor.
    pure BS...you should feel bad for spreading total BS.

    steady shot was the #1 dmg contributor for the whole xpac...from kara to sunwell.

    #showtooltip Steady Shot
    /cast !Auto shot
    /cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
    /cast Steady shot
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()


    ^ you only spammed one button.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post

    Anyways my point is, you and everyone else in here arguing that Thori'dal wasn't BIS clearly didn't even hunter in TBC.
    I didnt say it wasn't BiS...i said it was a shit legendary that was a minor dps increase over the epic bow. The damage difference between a hunter with and without the bow was marginal.

    Unlike all other weapon legendaries.....

    The fact it was such a minor upgrade is the reason guilds even gave it to some rogues in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Belichick View Post
    OMG the people who clearly never played. Attack speed was normalized for all attacks in freaking Vanilla to 2.8 due to the 3.4 speed cross bow in BWL being insanely good. With the 3:2 macro the 2.7 speed bow was better and the arrow dps was baked in making steady shot (the only fucking ability we used in our rotation since auto shot is well, auto) benefited more from the baked in arrow DPS.

    Any rogue that got it first was because it was early and people didn't know this and said fuck it (which is still dumb), someone ninja'd it, or the loot council is stupid. It was BIS for BM at the very least, which was also the #1 DPS in the game at the time (warlocks were a close 2nd, sometimes 1 depending on groups).

    There we no MM hunters in raids, and at most you had 1 SV hunter and we usually would swap week to week so someone didn't always get boned into playing the shit spec. The thing that sucked was it dropped off last boss so yes, you couldn't use it on progression. But it was 100% BiS and fuck you to those who say it wasn't.
    This is what i said like 20 times in this fourm...the key your missing is the reason Hunter wanted 2.7/2.8 attack speed was to optimise autoshots under the 3:2 macro and to minimise autoshot clipping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    The reason why there were so few MM hunters in high end raiding guild was because of hurrdurr forums who said it was shit. You could be MM and be competive until late Sunwell but since it was actually gameplay and not one-macro shit people just didnt bother. I admit I changed to BM in Sunwell because it just turned way to good to ignore, but you could do some nice numbers as MM throughout the whole expansion.
    BS ...as you even said in your own post. You basically said, "man i thought MM was good, but one day i went BM and it blew me mind". MM was dead for all of burning crusade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    Ya, this is accurate. With Thori'dal hunters could achieve a 1:1 (which in simple terms meant your attack speed was brought down to 1 second, and you had a 1 second steady shot and 1 second in between auto attacks so you never clipped auto shots) rotation very easily.

    3:2 macro was better then the 1:1 macro. Thoridal wasnt the only weapon in the game that had 2.7 speed. Even with Thoridal you still used the 3:2 macro.
    Last edited by Banard; 2017-05-24 at 11:32 AM.

  3. #103
    Bloodsail Admiral dicertification's Avatar
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    Everyone knows Thri'dal was a rogue weapon.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post

    BS ...as you even said in your own post. You basically said, "man i thought MM was good, but one day i went BM and it blew me mind". MM was dead for all of burning crusade
    Not what I said at all.

    MM in TBC was like Survival is now. People didnt play MM because getting good numbers as BM was alot easier with the 3:2 macro as you said(1:1 did less depending on speed) and the bow from the QD vendor had 2.8 wich made the damage significantly higher than what I did as MM. The 3.0 bows did make MM better than with the faster bows and when I got that vendor-Xbow(it was close to as good as the Twins bow)BM just went ahead.

    Not arguing MM was better at all, but it wasn't completely dead.

  5. #105
    Everybody is walking with artifact weapons but being shocked by a legendary on the wall.

  6. #106
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Not what I said at all.

    MM in TBC was like Survival is now. People didnt play MM because getting good numbers as BM was alot easier with the 3:2 macro as you said(1:1 did less depending on speed) and the bow from the QD vendor had 2.8 wich made the damage significantly higher than what I did as MM. The 3.0 bows did make MM better than with the faster bows and when I got that vendor-Xbow(it was close to as good as the Twins bow)BM just went ahead.

    Not arguing MM was better at all, but it wasn't completely dead.
    I'm pretty sure MM was dead in BC because MM wasn't able to get good numbers.
    WotLK MM wasn't all of a sudden a lot easier to play. I actually remember myself switching to MM instantly for the pre-wotlk patch because all of a sudden, MM was able to do damage.

    SV right now can at least pull some decent numbers
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-05-24 at 05:36 PM.

  7. #107
    Obnoxious Patriots Fan Darth Belichick's Avatar
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    MM was awesome in WotLK w/ Armor Pen. So so much ArP stacking. Bm was the go to spec at the beginning of WotLK though.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by nToxik View Post
    Thori'dal was arguably the worst Legendary weapon ever introduced by Blizzard. It was introduced at the end of an expansion and did less damage than other ranged weapons when you factored in ammo. A great joke was played on the hunter community back then. GG Blizzard. Well played.
    It was funny when guilds gave the bow to rogues. Then watch the meltdown from people on the forums afterwards lol.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Banard View Post
    pure BS...you should feel bad for spreading total BS.

    steady shot was the #1 dmg contributor for the whole xpac...from kara to sunwell.

    #showtooltip Steady Shot
    /cast !Auto shot
    /cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
    /cast Steady shot
    /script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
    Not true, early in the xpac if you did not have Thori'dal you used a regular bow and ammunition and your main dmg contributor was auto attack.

    Also no 3.2 was not BETTER than 1.1 this was based 100% on people who were so fucking stupid they didn't realize that the in game combat log is not accurate because it often lags. This dumb ass shit still get's repeated and it's literally based on screen shot/copy pasted in0game combat logs that clearly show steady shots following eachother before the GCD is even up and auto shots pumping out like a machine gun.

    No no no no no no no no no. No. No, kapeesh? You did 3.2 before you could get Thori'dal, there was no 1.1 before it. Was not even possible to get remotely close to that without basically gimping yourself as you needed haste on like everything.

    With Thori'dal equipped you did not have a 2.7 speed bow, you had a 2.35 or under. As Thori'dal in addition to being 2.7 speed also gave you the haste effect of a quiver without having one equipped.

    Not reading or responding to the rest of your drivel.

    You did not play TBC.
    Last edited by Shakou; 2017-05-24 at 11:32 PM.

  10. #110
    Mechagnome Rehija's Avatar
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    basically gimping yourself as you needed haste on like everything
    I dont remember the exact numbers clearly but i still know i desperately tried to get rid of some crit for more haste without replacing agi gems. I wore the Hyjal pants since i got them without ever seeing the ones from Kalecos drop. In my Raid we Hunters were always behind equipwise bcs. the Sunwell tokens almost never droped for us and when they did, Warrior tanks and Shamans had the first bet while our priests and pallys had almost full third equip ~~

    main dmg contributor was auto attack
    Yes, when /cast !Auto shot was "discovered". At first it was a bug when i remember correctly. Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh ! Everything is so fuzzy . . . . .

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakou View Post
    Not true, early in the xpac if you did not have Thori'dal you used a regular bow and ammunition and your main dmg contributor was auto attack.

    Also no 3.2 was not BETTER than 1.1 this was based 100% on people who were so fucking stupid they didn't realize that the in game combat log is not accurate because it often lags. This dumb ass shit still get's repeated and it's literally based on screen shot/copy pasted in0game combat logs that clearly show steady shots following eachother before the GCD is even up and auto shots pumping out like a machine gun.

    No no no no no no no no no. No. No, kapeesh? You did 3.2 before you could get Thori'dal, there was no 1.1 before it. Was not even possible to get remotely close to that without basically gimping yourself as you needed haste on like everything.

    With Thori'dal equipped you did not have a 2.7 speed bow, you had a 2.35 or under. As Thori'dal in addition to being 2.7 speed also gave you the haste effect of a quiver without having one equipped.

    Not reading or responding to the rest of your drivel.

    You did not play TBC.
    look at all that garbage.....

  12. #112
    Deleted
    Uhm... how did you do a 1:1 rotation?

    Steadyshot cast time was baseline 1.5s afaik... at least early in BC
    which means you'd need around the same autoattack speed or not do anything for about half a second, wouldn't you? Meh, I can't remember it anymore

    I didnt say it wasn't BiS...i said it was a shit legendary that was a minor dps increase over the epic bow. The damage difference between a hunter with and without the bow was marginal.

    Unlike all other weapon legendaries.....

    The fact it was such a minor upgrade is the reason guilds even gave it to some rogues in the first place.
    that one is BS though.

    kinda love how a guild or two did it for their own reasons and everyone is like "THEY ALL DID IT, Y'ALL"
    What's the deal with giving it to a rogue anyway? There is no doubt that a hunter will get more DPS out of it than a rogue.
    It's a shit legendary because it dropped from the last boss of a whole expansion. That's pretty much the only reason.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-05-25 at 09:57 AM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    No.

    All of these weapons are somewhat special, just because it's name is orange doesn't make it any more special.

    It's a bow that uses sunwell energy, that's it.
    Unlike the other legendaries, this bow never had any lore behind it. It's a legendary by name only.
    Really it should be hanging in the rogue den it was bis for them and not hunters due to the shitty auto ammo it used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    Everybody is walking with artifact weapons but being shocked by a legendary on the wall.
    Just ignore the 12 doom hammers you saw mixed in with the 50 ash bringers walking around Dalaran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Oh, so kind of like Thori'dal? :P
    Well played, you win the thread.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  14. #114
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Really it should be hanging in the rogue den it was bis for them and not hunters due to the shitty auto ammo it used.
    Where did you pick up such a lie. You did a pretty good job ignoring the whole discussion that was going on in here

    The bow had the ammo-dps embedded into it - steady shot didn't use ammo dps, but wpn-dmg.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    Where did you pick up such a lie. You did a pretty good job ignoring the whole discussion that was going on in here

    The bow had the ammo-dps embedded into it - steady shot didn't use ammo dps, but wpn-dmg.
    Your white dmg is still a pretty large part of your dmg and it benefits from your ammo. The numbers back then didn't lie as others have pointed out if you had it as a hunter you often used it for trash and farm bosses. Steady shot not benefiting from ammo dmg wasnt enough to make up for the drop. If you think it did you can't do math or didn't really face this issue back then.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    If I had to guess why Thori'dal is hanging on the wall of the class hall, while its canonical wielder is using a common crossbow, it would have to be for the "cool factor."
    yeah that's my guess. Chalk it up to the 'rule of cool'.

    While looking for Thori'dal, I also noticed there's a spider mounted on the wall, which I would rather not have.
    At least it's dead, like all spiders should be. The red dragon head is a little strange though. I'm guessing it was another one whose mind was fucklered by the black flight.
    Horseshit.

  17. #117
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    Your white dmg is still a pretty large part of your dmg and it benefits from your ammo. The numbers back then didn't lie as others have pointed out if you had it as a hunter you often used it for trash and farm bosses. Steady shot not benefiting from ammo dmg wasnt enough to make up for the drop. If you think it did you can't do math or didn't really face this issue back then.
    exactly, the numbers didn't lie, the Bow was BiS.

    Even the white damage was higher. What are you talking about.

    The bow dropped on our first KJ kill, wasn't exactly the earliest, I think we were somewhere world 200#. The hunter that got it instantly did more damage than me and the other hunter, while before we were literally equal due to all of us just mousewheeling anyway.

    The one who can't do math is you. Tell me why the Twins Golden Bow did more damage even if you exclude skill damage (which would be fucking stupid, you'd leave out 30% of your overall non-pet damage)? Just tell me.

    The bow had more screen DPS than any other bow in the game with best-Ammo DPS added. It's as simple as that. The fact that ammo DPS wasn't added to skills is adding to that advantage. The fact that it had the best attackspeed for BM hunters too.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-05-25 at 03:33 PM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZee View Post
    exactly, the numbers didn't lie, the Bow was BiS.

    Even the white damage was higher. What are you talking about.

    The bow dropped on our first KJ kill, wasn't exactly the earliest, I think we were somewhere world 200#. The hunter that got it instantly did more damage than me and the other hunter, while before we were literally equal due to all of us just mousewheeling anyway.

    The one who can't do math is you. Tell me why the Twins Golden Bow did more damage even if you exclude skill damage (which would be fucking stupid, you'd leave out 30% of your overall non-pet damage)? Just tell me.

    The bow had more screen DPS than any other bow in the game with best-Ammo DPS added. It's as simple as that. The fact that ammo DPS wasn't added to skills is adding to that advantage. The fact that it had the best attackspeed for BM hunters too.
    That is an awful lot of text to be wrong, that must be frustrating. I do like that another hunter beating you is part of your benchmark of proof. Have fun chasing your tail.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  19. #119
    Deleted
    So you have nothing else to say? Gj.

    Show me how a 163dps weapon does less white damage than a 97 dps bow with 53 dps ammo.
    Show me how a 3.0 speed is better than a 2.7 speed weapon as BM.

    Just show me how the bow wasn't BiS. That'd be enough.

    Have fun being ignorant.
    You didn't adress any of that because you know nothing about it.

    Shit, even if it did slightly less white damage (and it didn't), it would still be better overall.

    I do like that you think that high end Hunters in Sunwell had a huge gap in skill in BC and that they wouldn't get close to each other in damage as soon as they have the same gear.
    Last edited by mmoc96d9238e4b; 2017-05-25 at 04:44 PM.

  20. #120
    Isnt the one hander next to the Sniper rifle from Opera Event, the warrior class weapon from AQ20 q line?

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