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  1. #1

    Question BG Gear Scaling Problem

    Well, I started to raid again few months ago... so now I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of gear and bored from routine grinding so I decided to try BGs for the first time since last expansion. If I remember correctly we had PvP gear before so you would grind that, my guild mate told me that I don't need any because my gear would be much better than PvP one.

    Super excited, I decided to queue for random BGs. Boy, I was disappointed. I had no idea that my gear would be almost useless because of the scaling. I don't think scaling is the problem, don't get me wrong I'm completely against Swifty oneshot macro, but how it scales is just ridiculous.

    On top of that some classes scale better than others, granted I'm not the best person to judge, all I can see is a few classes on top constantly. Maybe I'm salty because of my class but for the amount of time I spend on this game daily, it should be somewhere there on the top for sure. All in all I'm just pointing out what I've experienced while doing some BGs. I was wondering what you guys think about gear scaling, boring or fun, good or bad?

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Correct me if I am wrong but I think everybody's gear scales to 850 in rated/non rated pvp and than you get 1% stat increase for every 10 ilvl. So I have 913 ilvl meaning I am 6.3 % stronger than a freshly dinged player (without counting artifact traits)

    On top of that every class has templates that are preset. What class do you play?

  3. #3
    I am of the opinion that they should bring back pvp gear. Gearing specifically for pvp was half the fun.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by szandos View Post
    I am of the opinion that they should bring back pvp gear. Gearing specifically for pvp was half the fun.
    dude there is pvp gear. Its just easier to get higher ilvl through mythics than arena/arbg

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mohyoto View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong but I think everybody's gear scales to 850 in rated/non rated pvp and than you get 1% stat increase for every 10 ilvl. So I have 913 ilvl meaning I am 6.3 % stronger than a freshly dinged player (without counting artifact traits)

    On top of that every class has templates that are preset. What class do you play?
    You are wrong. Everyone scales to 900ilvl instantly upon entering BGs/Arena and then you get a .1% increase for every ilvl above 800. So if you are 913 ilvl that means you are 11.3% stronger than someone with an ilvl of 1 that enters the BG/Arena.

    Templates are actually a great thing. They are just a single great thing in an incomplete overall system. The PvP system would be great if all of the following existed.

    1.) Gear Templates
    2.) Options to prioritize stats within the template
    3.) Ability to use PvP only trinkets you get as gear
    4.) Ability to get pvp only gear ilvl upgrade items for completing weekly "cap"
    (this would bring back the lower level players only interested in gear and would fill out the participation the way the point cap did in the past.)

    I am sure there are tons of other great ideas, but this is the system we have right now so might as well play around it.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    You are wrong. Everyone scales to 900ilvl instantly upon entering BGs/Arena and then you get a .1% increase for every ilvl above 800. So if you are 913 ilvl that means you are 11.3% stronger than someone with an ilvl of 1 that enters the BG/Arena.
    Thanks for the clarification!!!

    Templates are actually a great thing. They are just a single great thing in an incomplete overall system. The PvP system would be great if all of the following existed.

    1.) Gear Templates
    2.) Options to prioritize stats within the template
    3.) Ability to use PvP only trinkets you get as gear
    4.) Ability to get pvp only gear ilvl upgrade items for completing weekly "cap"
    (this would bring back the lower level players only interested in gear and would fill out the participation the way the point cap did in the past.)
    I agree with you and I am 100% for all the things you suggested.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    Well, I started to raid again few months ago... so now I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of gear and bored from routine grinding so I decided to try BGs for the first time since last expansion. If I remember correctly we had PvP gear before so you would grind that, my guild mate told me that I don't need any because my gear would be much better than PvP one.

    Super excited, I decided to queue for random BGs. Boy, I was disappointed. I had no idea that my gear would be almost useless because of the scaling. I don't think scaling is the problem, don't get me wrong I'm completely against Swifty oneshot macro, but how it scales is just ridiculous.

    On top of that some classes scale better than others, granted I'm not the best person to judge, all I can see is a few classes on top constantly. Maybe I'm salty because of my class but for the amount of time I spend on this game daily, it should be somewhere there on the top for sure. All in all I'm just pointing out what I've experienced while doing some BGs. I was wondering what you guys think about gear scaling, boring or fun, good or bad?

    Let me try to hit these in order....

    1. So your guildie told you your PVE gear was WAY better than what you can get in PVP.

    2. When you joined a bg you were disappointed that your PVE gear didn't allow you to dominate the casual PVP player. This is stupid btw. PVE should not reward items that will benefit you in PVP. How would you feel if PVPers hopped into a raid with gear that made them 10% or higher better than you? You might not feel that you have an advantage BUT you do. If you have been raiding your gear and artifact (you prob have all honor talents from "pvp" WQ) are probably far ahead of others in PVP. What does change in pvp is your talent choices. Just because you have a certain spec and rotation down in PVE does not mean it will work in PVP. Doesn't seem like you have much experience in PVP..... maybe this could be your prob?

    3. You say scaling isn't an issue then go on to say that how it scales is ridiculous and that some classes scale better than others. Is it an issue or not?


    Seems like you are whining and feel entitled. You don't deserve an advantage in PVP just because you have a high ilvl but that is the way it is right now. A design flaw that bliz is riding out and prob won't be around in the future.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearilla View Post
    Seems like you are whining and feel entitled. You don't deserve an advantage in PVP just because you have a high ilvl but that is the way it is right now. A design flaw that bliz is riding out and prob won't be around in the future.
    I think you are trying to flame me but I will reply. PvP in general was never balanced around one aspect because you always have different arena brackets, rated bgs, 1v1 and so on you name it so maybe I was on the short end of balance stick in terms of BGs, who knows... I just feel like BGs are very monotone right now that is all.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    I think you are trying to flame me but I will reply. PvP in general was never balanced around one aspect because you always have different arena brackets, rated bgs, 1v1 and so on you name it so maybe I was on the short end of balance stick in terms of BGs, who knows... I just feel like BGs are very monotone right now that is all.
    What you said was you entered thinking your gear was going to put you on another level and you were disappointed it didn't..... I don't mind grinding pvp for the best pvp gear but hearing someone say they pve and thought they should be better off is irritating (partly because that is reality right now). It is ridiculous that pve has the upper hand but you were disappointed that it wasn't more. So not only is it dumb that to have best gear for pvp you need to pve but you are not happy with the amount it was benefiting you. Your gear should be junk in pvp or scale like it did in WoD so it is equal and nothing more. BECAUSE! if the tables were turned and pvp rewarded best gear PVEers would lose their minds.

    I am not commenting on the balance of pvp in general. I am focusing on your gear remarks. For #3 it was confusing the way you commented on scaling not being an issue.... then it was ridic..... then some clases scale better than others. Seems like you were contradicting yourself.


    Edit: I am saying that it is not only stupid that this is the reality we are living right now (having to pve for pvp) but on top of that you don't think your advantage is enough.

  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    Well, I started to raid again few months ago... so now I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of gear and bored from routine grinding so I decided to try BGs for the first time since last expansion. If I remember correctly we had PvP gear before so you would grind that, my guild mate told me that I don't need any because my gear would be much better than PvP one.

    Super excited, I decided to queue for random BGs. Boy, I was disappointed. I had no idea that my gear would be almost useless because of the scaling. I don't think scaling is the problem, don't get me wrong I'm completely against Swifty oneshot macro, but how it scales is just ridiculous.

    On top of that some classes scale better than others, granted I'm not the best person to judge, all I can see is a few classes on top constantly. Maybe I'm salty because of my class but for the amount of time I spend on this game daily, it should be somewhere there on the top for sure. All in all I'm just pointing out what I've experienced while doing some BGs. I was wondering what you guys think about gear scaling, boring or fun, good or bad?
    Now you're starting to see why PvPers have a problem with Blizzard's shit template system.

    Your guildmate was wrong. In wPvP your raid gear could be much better than much of the "PvP" gear is now, because all of your stats would be active. In instanced PvP only your ilvl counts, and Blizz decides what your stats are based on how high your ilvl is, regardless of class or spec.

    Don't want X% Vers as a shaman or X% Haste as a warlock? Too fucking bad, Blizz said that's what you get.

    Now imagine your PvE gear did that when you entered a raid or dungeon instance.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Caolela View Post
    Now you're starting to see why PvPers have a problem with Blizzard's shit template system.

    Your guildmate was wrong. In wPvP your raid gear could be much better than much of the "PvP" gear is now, because all of your stats would be active. In instanced PvP only your ilvl counts, and Blizz decides what your stats are based on how high your ilvl is, regardless of class or spec.

    Don't want X% Vers as a shaman or X% Haste as a warlock? Too fucking bad, Blizz said that's what you get.

    Now imagine your PvE gear did that when you entered a raid or dungeon instance.
    He will prob have a higher ilvl than the casual pvper so his gear will be better (in this case "much" becomes subjective as it will have different definitions depending on the party you ask). Along with an artifact that is further along..... more dmg, more hp and potentially more talents than others.

    Yes, wpvp he will be MUCH better off.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    Well, I started to raid again few months ago... so now I'm pretty much maxed out in terms of gear and bored from routine grinding so I decided to try BGs for the first time since last expansion. If I remember correctly we had PvP gear before so you would grind that, my guild mate told me that I don't need any because my gear would be much better than PvP one.

    Super excited, I decided to queue for random BGs. Boy, I was disappointed. I had no idea that my gear would be almost useless because of the scaling. I don't think scaling is the problem, don't get me wrong I'm completely against Swifty oneshot macro, but how it scales is just ridiculous.

    On top of that some classes scale better than others, granted I'm not the best person to judge, all I can see is a few classes on top constantly. Maybe I'm salty because of my class but for the amount of time I spend on this game daily, it should be somewhere there on the top for sure. All in all I'm just pointing out what I've experienced while doing some BGs. I was wondering what you guys think about gear scaling, boring or fun, good or bad?
    If you're just doing your first BGs in Legion it's completely normal that you're not at the top, even if your class was OP, why would you expect to magically do better than people who have been doing this more than you?
    Not to mention they most likely have very similar ilvl.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    It's all about the artifact weapon now...

    I too miss honor- and conquest gear and weapons.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    On top of that some classes scale better than others, granted I'm not the best person to judge, all I can see is a few classes on top constantly.
    In PvE it's unheard of that a class can do double or even triple the damage than others, but in PvP this is the truth and it's considered "normal" (?).
    It's not scaling, it's something else I cannot really entirely explain. It probably has to do something with the fact, that oponents in PvP have their own mind and are not controlled by aggro and scripts and therefore tend to mess up those so called dps roations (which aren't applicable for PvP anyway).

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD View Post
    In PvE it's unheard of that a class can do double or even triple the damage than others, but in PvP this is the truth and it's considered "normal" (?).
    not on every encounter otherwise guilds will only recruit that class and keep others just for the loot roll, we are talking about BGs here not PvP in general.

  16. #16
    Immortal Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    If you're ilvl 913 and I presume have an artifact with concordance unlocked, you should have a small but noticeable advantage over 99% of random BG players in a strict stats sense. What more you want? It's not like the old days where a fully geared T3 healer could tank the entire enemy team in their mix of T1, Ony helms, and dungeon blues .
    Last edited by Fahrenheit; 2017-05-24 at 08:56 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tic Tacs View Post
    not on every encounter otherwise guilds will only recruit that class and keep others just for the loot roll, we are talking about BGs here not PvP in general.
    Can't comment the first part of your statement, but for the second one: yes, we are talking about BGs (me too), and I confirm what you said: it's always the same classes that are on top of the charts (DPS and KBs). Some perform very well (SPs, Hunters, Rets, WLs) and some are very very unlikely to ever land anywhere near the top of the charts (Rogues, WWs, Ferals).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD View Post
    Can't comment the first part of your statement, but for the second one: yes, we are talking about BGs (me too), and I confirm what you said: it's always the same classes that are on top of the charts (DPS and KBs). Some perform very well (SPs, Hunters, Rets, WLs) and some are very very unlikely to ever land anywhere near the top of the charts (Rogues, WWs, Ferals).
    And that is the problem with Random BGs in a nutshell. Everyone is so concerned with KB and Damage that they ignore objectives and lose the BG. Which is more important in Kotmogu for example, the Frost DK that has 10 KB and 100 victory points with no orb possessions and top damage, or the rogue with zero KB, last place damage but 445 victory points?

    If you want to deathmatch and win the damage charts, go do 2v2. BGs are objective based. There are reasons to kill players and do damage, but the objective of the BG is not JUST to do damage and kill players.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by XMD View Post
    Can't comment the first part of your statement, but for the second one: yes, we are talking about BGs (me too), and I confirm what you said: it's always the same classes that are on top of the charts (DPS and KBs). Some perform very well (SPs, Hunters, Rets, WLs) and some are very very unlikely to ever land anywhere near the top of the charts (Rogues, WWs, Ferals).
    Being at the top of the charts in a bg doesn't necessarily mean someone did well. You are right some classes are always towards the top but on my fury I am rarely top dmg unless I have a pockets heals. BUT I feel I still perform well either grabbing a flag, focusing enemy heals or taking out efc. Because I am primarily single target I do not expect to be at the top of the charts on my Warrior. On my UH DK..... this is a different story. I am able to spread dots and then do great single target/aoe burst.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Caolela's Avatar
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    Playing for the meters doesn't mean shit. I can go Aff on my lock and like any other DoT spec, spread DoTs around and cheese numbers to the top. That doesn't mean you killed or CC'ed/stopped anyone at the right time or did the objectives to win the match. I see SV huntards and Discs do it all the time in lower lvl BGs and they're AIDS.

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