Is Versatility equal to primary stats?

[Swalload]

Tanks aren't competing with DPS or Healers for raid spots so not sure why you care.

It's already 8/4% Damage/DR lets' say you double that because it's a secondary and it starts getting OP really fast.

You should stop looking at it as "Vers is not good for my spec" and more look at it as it's a 8/4% proc for ALL tanks aka the epitome of balance.

There is nothing wrong with it.

Double that? What is this, religion math made out of nowhere?

If anything you have to reduce it by half cuz it's not gonna be 50% uptime, at all.

[Shoat]

It's way better than primary stats. 2% more healing done and 1% less damage taken is WAY more valuable than 1% parry (and it takes more strength for 1% parry than it takes vers for the 2% healing & 1% less damage taking).

Primary stats are utterly meaningless for most tanks in most situations.
Getting primary stats is a dps increase (which doesn't matter unless you're playing trivial content or are in the top 1% of guilds participating in world first mythic races, those are the only two situations where tank dps even remotely matters, and most people aren't in the top 1% and then who the hell would optimize themselves for trivial content? Ugh, this is a whole other discussion) and a tiny amount of dodge/parry. It does nothing unless in very large numbers, and even then it does less for pure survival than an equivalent or smaller number of ANY other stat (even leech or avoidance do more).

Versatility is the next best thing for the universal concordance effect: stamina on a temporary proc effect would be weird, and each of the other secondary stats have enormous variance in usefulness that is different for each tank and would be a balancing clusterfuck to just universally give to everyone, versatility is decent for everyone (a bit better for blood probably) and thus the best idea for tank concordance.

Really the only reason why vers is seen as "ugh this is bad" by most players is because it's more expensive to get each % of it and most players are DPS or healers and don't even need the second half (damage-reduction %) of it.
Tanks DO very much profit from ALL of versatility (damage up, healing up, damage-taken down).

[Kikazz]

http://imgur.com/FX2xmmw even the shit blizzard numbers say that you get dodge from it. And blizzard doesn't even show some multipliers or hidden passives.

guess i just must not notice it. i stand corrected, but due to it saying Diminishing returns, verse would probably outweigh it the higher ykou get in gear.

[Tradu]

I thought Blizz made a conscious effort back in 7.1.5 to boost the role of primary stats above secondary, so they would always be better. Wasn't that part of their move to make more item level upgrades real upgrades? And now that they've done it, shouldn't primary stats be budgeted as being more valuable?

Yeah, that's what they claimed they did in 7.1.5, in reality their changes did the opposite for most classes.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

yes but not all tanks want haste, so they dont want to confuse it with "uhh they get haste, they get mastery, they get crit, they get strength, they get vers" and just make it raw out vers so it is the same for all of them...

also your "well some specs get their best stat well others get their 4th" get a fucking hold of yourself, it effects each spec the exact same as it is the exact same % of damage reduced, damage increased, and healing recieved increased.

of corse with ANYTHING from stats some specs will get a slight advantage

"hur dur for warlocks this is stupid fucking unfair, for destro int is the third best stat but in demo it is the second, come on blizzard fucking cater to my needs"

look, if you are 0.1% weaker then a warrior tank cause they use the stat slightly better, and you need to make a thread about it. well. idk

but fine let me go make a thread crying about how "wtf blizz why the fuck did we get int? why couldent we have gotten haste, that way my spec would be catered to!?"

I'm not crying; don't be so dramatic. Or maybe I should just remind you that it can be hard to read someone's tone from words alone. I was really just bored at work, noticed something that seemed out of line with Blizz's stated intention of making primary stats more important than secondary (they really did say that, back when 7.1.5 launched), and thought I'd mention it.

Yes, I really would prefer haste to versatility. Yes, you are probably right that they just figured this would be simpler. Yes, it really does benefit some specs more than others. But yes, you're right that the difference is negligible and not worth getting upset about.

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Primary stats are utterly meaningless for most tanks in most situations.

Just lol. All the good (even decent) tanks I know would disagree with you, as would my raid leader. Guessing you don't M+ much either, or maybe it didn't occur to you that we use our artifacts for tanking M+?

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Hey Shoat is it just a derp that Blizz puts primary stats on tanking gear? Maybe they don't understand their own game!

[Ashkiman]

Tbh I think if we're going with primary stats for healers and dds, tanks should also get their most useful primary stat which is Stamina.

[Grobovshik]

Tbh I think if we're going with primary stats for healers and dds, tanks should also get their most useful primary stat which is Stamina.

With stamina I can easy stop farm ap. This would be a real gift from blizzard.

[Tojara]

Primary stats are better for tank damage, they also offer avoidance, as trivial as people might think it to be.

The reason they gave tanks versatility instead of other secondary stats is because it's universally 'safe', where giving mastery, crit or haste could be a disaster for some tanks. It also fits the role of being 'defensive' oriented, as versatility is normally thrown that label.

Personally I'd rather have a primary stat proc like everybody else, but versatility is the next best option. I understand why they gave us versatility but I don't necessarily agree with it. Once it gets high enough the DR portion of the proc is actually going to be fairly decent, however, my issue with it is that it's not reliable. I actually don't mind tank oriented things (defensive shit) when they aren't random. Procs being random or having too long of a CD is exactly why nobody uses tank trinkets, and why concordance is merely meh.

I'd much prefer concordance for tanks be a lower value than what healer/dps get, but be active all the time. If you're assuming 2 PPM or like 33% uptime, just give us a flat 1600 versatility and 100 versatility per rank flat.

[Ridcully]

Versatility is better.
1. It benefits all tank classes the same, everyone gets 8,4% increased dps and 4,2% reduced damage taken.
2. Primary stat will decrease in value with higher itemlevel gear. For example 20k on gear and 4k proc - 20% extra, 40k on gear and 4k proc - only 10% extra. Versatility is a multiplier on top of primary stat, it's value is basically constant.

[Tradu]

Primary stats are better for tank damage, they also offer avoidance, as trivial as people might think it to be.

The reason they gave tanks versatility instead of other secondary stats is because it's universally 'safe', where giving mastery, crit or haste could be a disaster for some tanks. It also fits the role of being 'defensive' oriented, as versatility is normally thrown that label.

Personally I'd rather have a primary stat proc like everybody else, but versatility is the next best option. I understand why they gave us versatility but I don't necessarily agree with it. Once it gets high enough the DR portion of the proc is actually going to be fairly decent, however, my issue with it is that it's not reliable. I actually don't mind tank oriented things (defensive shit) when they aren't random. Procs being random or having too long of a CD is exactly why nobody uses tank trinkets, and why concordance is merely meh.

I'd much prefer concordance for tanks be a lower value than what healer/dps get, but be active all the time. If you're assuming 2 PPM or like 33% uptime, just give us a flat 1600 versatility and 100 versatility per rank flat.

They specifically said they didn't want it to be consistent/passive, because then people would be annoyed that they didn't have enough traits to kill the boss rather than being annoyed that they didn't get lucky procs to kill the boss.

[beelgers]

It's way better than primary stats. 2% more healing done and 1% less damage taken is WAY more valuable than 1% parry (and it takes more strength for 1% parry than it takes vers for the 2% healing & 1% less damage taking).

Primary stats are utterly meaningless for most tanks in most situations.
Getting primary stats is a dps increase (which doesn't matter unless you're playing trivial content or are in the top 1% of guilds participating in world first mythic races, those are the only two situations where tank dps even remotely matters, and most people aren't in the top 1% and then who the hell would optimize themselves for trivial content? Ugh, this is a whole other discussion) and a tiny amount of dodge/parry. It does nothing unless in very large numbers, and even then it does less for pure survival than an equivalent or smaller number of ANY other stat (even leech or avoidance do more).

Versatility is the next best thing for the universal concordance effect: stamina on a temporary proc effect would be weird, and each of the other secondary stats have enormous variance in usefulness that is different for each tank and would be a balancing clusterfuck to just universally give to everyone, versatility is decent for everyone (a bit better for blood probably) and thus the best idea for tank concordance.

Really the only reason why vers is seen as "ugh this is bad" by most players is because it's more expensive to get each % of it and most players are DPS or healers and don't even need the second half (damage-reduction %) of it.
Tanks DO very much profit from ALL of versatility (damage up, healing up, damage-taken down).

This is a good explanation why vers is a better choice than strength, but let me add this... If tanks are getting strength/agi instead, it is RNG on top of RNG which obviously isn't awesome for tanking. There's the RNG to see if concordance procs in the first place. Then there's RNG on top of that to see if the added STR/AGI actually causes you to dodge/parry the attack. At least with vers, once you get the first RNG, the rest is predictable - you'll get DR, +healing, and +dmg for the duration.

[Swalload]

Tbh I think if we're going with primary stats for healers and dds, tanks should also get their most useful primary stat which is Stamina.

Temporary stamina doesn't do much, also we already get so much fucking stam, I don't even know what to do with it, getting hit in the face doesn't even seem enough to justify getting more at this point.

[Riistov]

Versa ranges from good to decent across the tank specs.

[Jimson]

Thats wrong, strength gives parry and agility gives dodge. While minor and RNG dependant, it has a defensive value. I'd much ratter prefere 4k strength over 4k versa just for the dmg, it helps more than a shit reduction, tanks are tanky enough.

I don't know about any other classes, but my warrior tank gets parry from crit. Strength makes Ignore Pain stronger, though.

i don't mind a versa proc, it's a guaranteed damage reduction.

[Boraal]

If this game tries to give me more versatility than it already has I'm going to take a nasty trip to California.

[Tankyouverymuch]

Unlike primary stats, versatility scales with gear and content because it's percentage-based. What's not to like about that?

[Onatala]

Just lol. All the good (even decent) tanks I know would disagree with you, as would my raid leader. Guessing you don't M+ much either, or maybe it didn't occur to you that we use our artifacts for tanking M+?

Why would guardian bears want AGI over Vers?

Agi = attack power and dodge

vers = increased damage and healing done as well as with a decreased damage taken.

Which sounds better?


This is starting to sound a lot like the stam vs dodge debate back in wrath.

[Deleted]

I don't know about any other classes, but my warrior tank gets parry from crit. Strength makes Ignore Pain stronger, though.

i don't mind a versa proc, it's a guaranteed damage reduction.

http://i.imgur.com/TkOlXXr.png double check before posting dude. Crit gives parry to STR users, that's true, but STR does too.

Unlike primary stats, versatility scales with gear and content because it's percentage-based. What's not to like about that?

If something it's bad because versa has strong dimishing returns very early on, which means the value of versatility will be worst on gear cause of the "base" versa concordance gives.

[Holofernes]

i cant speak for all , but for my dps warrior , 4 k vers would win over 4 k strenght.

[Jimson]

http://i.imgur.com/TkOlXXr.png double check before posting dude. Crit gives parry to STR users, that's true, but STR does too.

If something it's bad because versa has strong dimishing returns very early on, which means the value of versatility will be worst on gear cause of the "base" versa concordance gives.

I'm not at home so I can't check, but I'm almost positive the amount of parry you get from Str is pretty negligible compared to Crit.