Argus raid set to be worst one since Dragon Soul?

[davidbane123]

Let's take down the name calling and personal attacks please. Focus on the discussion at hand.

OP you hear that?

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Ty, it obviously worked. 8 pages and counting. Guess i had to give the thread a stupid, boring name so nobody would click it. On top of that, there's a question mark on the title, it's your fault if you expected anything official.

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Calling someone a retard is contructive? Sry mate, you walked right into that one.

Well you are kinda being a douche...

[Sariengrey]

I would not be surprised if its "not great" , this whole expansion is nothing but a mess. And I was a huge Blizz fanboy 13 years , fully subscribed from the start Veteran. But I'm sorry Legion is ,and continues to be, a mess.

[davidbane123]

That's the whole point of trying to make a prediction? If the details were all out, then it wouldn't be a prediction would it?

Facts? Wanna use em?

[DarkTZeratul]

Sunwell was a filler raid, black temple was supposed to be the last raid.

This is still absolutely, totally, 100% wrong. They told us when TBC was announced that the Sunwell would be patch content, and the quest from killing Kael'thas in Tempest Keep directly said that Kil'jaeden was coming. Ruby Sanctum was filler content. Sunwell Plateau was the culmination of the entire blood elf storyline from the beginning of the expansion.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Fixed that for you.

On topic: There's nothing to "disagree" with, because you literally have nothing to base this on. It can't even qualify as an opinion, it is nothing more than an assumption which you are touting as an opinion that no one can challenge. We don't have a single bit of factual information about the raid other than that it takes place on Argus and anything else is pure speculation. Don't get me wrong, speculation is fine and is definitely fun, but don't pretend it's anything more than just that.

Millennial is not an insult.

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There is literally nothing to agree upon. You are just making up claims based on your gut. You have no idea what the Argus raid tier will be like.

No, i am not.

Argus will be the worst raid since DS.

Will Argus be the worst raid since DS?

I hope you can tell the difference. Peace, enjoy your day!

[willtron]

No, i am not.

Argus will be the worst raid since DS.

Will Argus be the worst raid since DS?

I hope you can tell the difference. Peace, enjoy your day!

The title of this thread is 'Argus raid set to be worst one since Dragon Soul?' and you go on to make unfounded claims about a future raid tier based on your subjective opinion trying to link the two. X must be Y because Z.

Nothing about this is objective. You're just making stuff up.

[Caerule]

I think it's a legit concern that the final raid won't be interesting enough.

However, there have been plenty of raids carried by just 1 person, that were still interesting. Hell, there have been raids without anyone of interest inside, before they came out.

I think only Kil'Jaeden could carry Tomb of Sargeras. And it makes sense to face him there. It's correct that it means he won't be our villain on Argus. Not that he's been a very visible villain. It's the only thing Legion could use more of.

However, Blizzard has a lot to prove in the final patch of the expansion. The final patch, more than anything, will determine how Legion will be remembered.
They've got enough experience now, to not repeat the mistakes of the past. I think they'll give us something worthy. Or, that is my hope at least.

So, for now a thread like this, especially this eager about it, seems premature to me. I'm content to wait and see for now.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

The title of this thread is 'Argus raid set to be worst one since Dragon Soul?' and you go on to make unfounded claims about a future raid tier based on your subjective opinion trying to link the two. X must be Y because Z.

Nothing about this is objective. You're just making stuff up.

It's the same thing worded differently.

[Adoxe]

Tichondrius isn't dead, Nighthold isn't Twisting Nether. If you're gonna make a post full of BS like this, at least try to know what you're talking about.

[Deleted]

Just bored at work, wanted to share my thoughts.

And you honestly believe this was a problem only for Dragon Soul? This has been a problem ever since vanilla WoW. That's why Illidan, Malygos, and other neutral characters have become enemies. Because they're well known and thus they score better with the fan base. Sargeras is no exception.

But we need to have big names in previous raids as well. Nighthold, Tomb of Sargeras, etc need big names as well. That's why they spread the big names of Legion in multiple raids, they have done so since TBC. It's nothing new. So don't pretend it's a problem now and only happened during Dragon Soul as well.

There were problems with Dragon Soul, but the unknown raid bosses weren't the biggest problem. The lack of story development and lack of unique scenery were a bigger issue than the no-name bosses.

Please be honest, how would you feel if Mannoroth, Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, Varimathras, Malganis, Avatar of Sargeras and Sargeras himself were all bosses of the Argus raid and all the previous raids of Legion would be full of nobodies? Would that be preferable over the current situation? I think not!

[willtron]

It's the same thing worded differently.

No it isn't. You're (subjectively) claiming Argus will be a poor raid because you (subjectively) say Dragon Soul is the worst raid and will follow that format (unfounded) because we have killed off all the main baddies and will fight nobodies.

Many of the most highly regarded raids tiers in WoW have us fighting nobodies. And your example of

1st have to go through, Eredar Lord Smarty Pants, Pitlord McDaniels, Edgelord Joe, a random Nathrezim council, and then...Sargeras

is generally how the bigger raids go. Find me a big raid in game, with all known, famous bosses.

You know nothing of the Argus raid, you can make predictions and you can guess but the fact is you know the square root of fuck all.

[MrLachyG]

I still don't see why we are still debating this shitstain of a topic.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Well I can see how some may have valid concerns in regards to what argus may hold for us. Not just for the raid but the whole premise of the patch is shrouded in darkness tbh. We know nothing about the reason why we go there, how much content will be there, all while we have pretty much taken care of everything that the expansion so far was build upon. We will see.

[Pua]

Edgelord Joe for Warchief.

[Radaney]

The OP of this thread is pure aids and just baseless bashing.

But I am curious who the last boss will be.

Also Tichondrius is still alive, so are a lot of the Dreadlords actually.

Blizzard if you're reading this, if there isn't a Dreadlord council fight in Argus with all the big bitches there I will be sorely disappointed.

I want 3 Dreadlord Laser beams flying around a room at once that one shot you, i want it to be more annoying than Grind Trine. Thank you.

[Egitel]

Millennial is not an insult.

And yet here you are, using it as a "subtle" attempt at derision; you're not fooling anyone. Also, the comment was more about the overall tone of your replies throughout this thread, rather than any one comment in particular. Hardly a beacon of civility.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think it would be a very nice if they did a Council of Dreadlords fight(do they have that in game for ToS?)
Anyway, I loved watching the dreadlords interact with each other in WC3, might be even cooler to see them fight together.

Sorta, there is a "Demonic Inquisition" fight with two enemies. One looks like a jailer person and another demon named Atrigan or w/e.


Well let's look at the bosses throughout WoW(Starting at Wrath cause reasons)

Naxxramas: Anub'Rekhan, Grand Widow Faerlina, Maexxna, Noth The Plaguebringer, Heigan The Unclean, Loatheb, Instructor Razuvious, Gothik The Harvester, The Four Horsemen(Baron Rivendare was from Stratholme but that's it), Patchwerk, Grobbulous, Gluth, Thaddius, Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad are the last ones.

Only two of them are somewhat lore relevant(Sapphiron and Kel'thuzad were from WCIII and very iconic)

Obsidian Sanctum: Sarthion which is a Black Dragon. Not very known like at all

Eye of Eternity: Malygos, mostly reintroduced thanks to the War of the Ancients novels and such. Aspect of Magic, big lore guy but fairly recent at least at Wrath's time.

Ulduar: Flame levitation, Ignis The Furnance Master, Razorscale(Thorim's protodrake and such but not new, created in Wrath questing), XT-002- Deconstructer, Assembly of Iron, Kologarn(Dude from the Patch trailer), Auriaya, Hodir, Thorim,(Storm Peak dude and a Keeper) Freya,(Keeper) Mimiron,(Keeper) General Vezax, Yogg Saron(Old God so very significant but he was new)

Extra ish boss Algalon the Observer a Consteller. New boss(Nothing wrong with new bosses, just pointing it out)

Trial of the Crusader: Northrend beasts, Lord Jarraxus,(Now a WoW Meme >.>) Horde Champions, Twin Val'kyr and lastly Anub'arak(From Azjol'Nerub dungeon AND WCIII so only one again that's super notable).

Also not including Ony lair cause reasons.

Icecrown Citadel(Probably the most iconic or well lore relevant places....ever in Warcraft. Icecrown is very known)

Lord Marrowgar, Lady Deathwhisper, Icecrown Gunship,(Muradin is for Alliance and Varok Saurfang is for Horde) Deathbringer Saurfang,(Varok's son) Festergut, Rotface, Professer Putricide,(I admit this guy is amusing so yeah) Blood Prince Council(San'layn guys we've met before in Wrath), Blood Queen Lana'thel,(Related to Quel'delar questline) Valithria Dreamwalker, Sindragosa(FrostWyrm from the cinematic) and lastly but certainly not least, The Lich King(Arthas Menethil, Warcraft III guy). Roughly One big guy out of mostly new stuff.

Cataclysm:

Blackwing Lair: Only the Nefarian boss is super notable from Vanilla WoW(Along with an undead Onyxia)

Bastion of Twilight: Only Cho'gall is the biggest lore guy there. Rest are new

Throne of Four Winds: Al'akir is the only one that is well been around for awhile(Elemental lord)

Baradin Hold: All new bosses

Firelands: Staghelm that jerk from Vanilla and Ragnaros once again.

Dragon Soul: Only Deathwing. So hardly any big lore characters in the raids.

Mist of Pandaria:

Mogu'shan Vaults: Pretty much all new, which is to be expected since Blizzard created a known continent with new themes, and races. I mean Elegon might be famillar in the sense of a Constellar ish thing but that's hardly notable.

Heart of Fear: Lots of Mantid related stuff, all new. Sha of Fear's presence is there but not a boss.

Terrace of Endless Springs: All new, end boss being Sha of Fear which were introduced in Pandaria. Point still stands.

Throne of Thunder: Lots of Mogu and Troll related stuff but mostly new. Even Lei'shen was new despite the fact the lore was pretty good.

Siege of Orgrimmar: Lots of Orcish stuff. Nazgrim is the most notable at most since he started in Cata and became prominent in Mist. Mal'korok became more of a thing in Mist(Mostly novels and such). Garrosh Hellscream has been around since BC so he's the biggest.

Admittingly Siege probably had more notability then any other raid in Mists.

Warlords of Draenor:

Highmaul: Mostly new Ogre related stuff but the first fight is Kargath(Alternate but still) we know what he was back in the old Warcraft days and vanilla in BC(Hellfire dungeon or whatever). Mostly new and yes even as something as underwhelming as WoD. We got new characters of sorts/lore

Blackrock Foundry: Gruul(Alternate one) is probably the most notable outside of the next one. Blackhand is the most notable...and well loudest. So there's 2

Hellfire Citadel: Killrogg Dead Eye, Gorefiend(Alternate versions mind you) Socrethar(Alternate but not as important as the others). Mannoroth and again Archimonde.

Ironically the expansion people still loathe had most notable lore characters. Let's go to Legion


Legion:


Emerald Nightmare: Ursoc, Bear ancient but not the biggest one. Cenarius is the biggest one, bigger then Xavius who is the next one. 2 of them only super big.

Trial of Valor: All are new but been around Azeroth for a long time.

Nighthold: Tichondrius has been a thing since WCIII. And finally Gul'dan(Alternate) So roughly two of them.

Tomb of Sargeras: Pretty much the Fallen Avatar and Kil'Jaeden are the only big ones in this. Most are new.


So really it's rare to have a raid to have a lot of notable bosses in there.

[Flurryfang]

Seems like they're repeating the mistakes they made in Cata, they're killing off all the known bad guys before the final raid. Dragon Soul ended up being a very disappointing raid, in part becuase we fought a whole lot of nobodies.

What is the final raid of legion going to offer? Mannoroth was killed last expansion, Archimonde too, Tichondrius was killed in NH, the avatar of Sargeras will be killed in ToS, Kil'jaeden as well, all the other known demons have been killed in various class hall questlines.

Other than Sargeras, who at this point is pretty much guaranteed to be the last boss, who are we going to get? Yet again a lot of no name bosses. That's ok for a mid expansion raid, but not for the raid that will put an end to the legion plot, the greatest known threat to Azeroth ever since Warcraft came out.

I'm fully expecting Khadgar, Illidan, or Velen to end up being bosses in that raid. Even then, it will be very dissapointing if in order to finally defeat the legion, we 1st have to go through, Eredar Lord Smarty Pants, Pitlord McDaniels, Edgelord Joe, a random Nathrezim council, and then...Sargeras, that would just feel wrong.

Just bored at work, wanted to share my thoughts.

.... You have no idea why DS was bad and considered a totally failure, do you? O.o

[Deleted]

Why is it stupid to speculate, because you don't like it? And no, i have no idea what they have planned, hence why i'm speculating. Are people really this stupid?

I am a big fan of speculation... but you are doing it wrong. First you need to base your speculation on facts and than argue what those facts mean for the future of the franchise in question and why. And than you need to present your theory to the world and see if it holds of to scrutiny. See what other know and how other interpret the facts. And if it makes more sense than your own results. Crafting theories is like a puzzle. It's fun.

All you do is claim something and get pissed when people don't subscribe blindly. That's pretty much the polar opposite of what healthy speculation looks like.

[Eon Drache]

Hakkar the houndmaster has been around forever in WoW lore. Obviously because he's a demon his soul hasn't been destroyed yet and he keeps coming back. I remember reading about him in the Well of Eternity novels. Pretty sure he originally came through the portal Azshara opened.

The point to my post was those characters have established lore. Hekkar was the first major demon to come to Azeroth through the portal.