Should iLvL below Mythic Raiding Max out BELOW Mythic Base?

[Verdugo]

No it doesn't. That's just bullshit. If your self-esteem really hinges on whether or not other people have gear that has a similar item level to yours, that's your problem.



I'm not against specific cosmetic/mount-related Mythic-only rewards, but there is no reason to cap gear. If I pick up a 915+ from our heroic raid by chance, that doesn't devalue a mythic raider's achievement.

Its cute when mods pretend that Jaylock is normal poster that isnt baiting people at all.

[Tehr]

I personally dislike super titanforging (mostly because it disincentivizes higher, more difficult levels of content when one of the motivations for playing is getting good gear), and I would love to see titanforging stop at the Mythic Raid ilvl. I'm not very concerned with that one guy with a 925 Raid Finder Draught of Souls simply because of how rare it is, what I am concerned with is the fact that mythic players feel like they must complete a normal and heroic clear of Nighthold every week in order to get a specific warforged/titanforged item. In fact, my guild does a clear of M EN clear most weeks where we kill Nythendra (required), Ursoc (Bloodthirsty Instinct), and Cenarius (Life Relic) in the off chance of a titanforged piece.

HOWEVER, without titanforging I would never have been able to bring my fresh-ish BrM Monk to the easy first 7 bosses of Mythic Nighthold. There would be no way I could get to ~902 ilvl (or whatever I was before I came to Mythic) using just Heroic gear, and being so undergeared would just make me a liability, and it's unlikely I would have been able to do that, ESPECIALLY as a tank rather than a carry.

I think that to 95% of the playerbase, titanforging is a good thing. To the other 5% that really value gear, and the prestige that's associated with it, titanforging is a double-edged sword. It certainly gives benefits to even the most elitist player, but for the reasons listed here and above, they have justification for disliking it.

No it doesn't. That's just bullshit. If your self-esteem really hinges on whether or not other people have gear that has a similar item level to yours, that's your problem.

Getting better gear was one of the only motivations for guilds to do 25man content as opposed to 10man content when there was an ilvl disparity between the two. I think it's completely fair for someone to dislike a system where someone else can get better rewards due to luck than the player gets from doing much more challenging content.

I'm not against specific cosmetic/mount-related Mythic-only rewards, but there is no reason to cap gear. If I pick up a 915+ from our heroic raid by chance, that doesn't devalue a mythic raider's achievement.

People have provided plenty of reasons to cap gear, you just disagree with them. Titanforging doesn't devalue a mythic raider's achievement, but it does devalue the mythic raider's gear, which is one of the few tangible things that represent the prestige of the mythic raider.

[Deleted]

People complain that it's sad that mythic raiders care about what other people have, they care about Heroic, normal of LFR raiders having better gear than mythic raiders.

I have this question for who think it's good for the game for people to get better than mythic gear from less than mythic. Why do you want the mythic tier loot? You probably won't be killing mythic bosses which is what you need the gear to do. Do you need 920 items to kill normal bosses? Are you people that sad you need the prospect of looting of 925 LFR draught of souls to keep you logging in every day to play? Because most of you are too shit to ever kill mythic Gul'dan when it's current.

The people who think that getting the possibility of getting better gear than mythic from Heroic-LFR are literally delusional. Take the everyone is a winner shit back to the playground.

[Kvo]

I personally really hate the way loot is setup currently, (including legendaries, and I just got my last one as a SP). I've gotten more 915+ gear from Heroic NH than I have from Mythic NH. Its infuriating. We are currently 8/10 M NH, and have lost a lot of people due to the "what's the point because loot sucks." We got M Elis to 10% last night, and hopefully will get it tonight, and you know whats going to be hilarious...? When every item that gets dropped gets sharded because they aren't upgrades for anyone. THAT is why I agree with OP in this...

[araine]

no it should not since if it does you have no reason to ever help out your buddies in lower difficulties since you cant ever get an upgrade even if it is a very very very tiny chance like right now which is why the current titanforge system works excellent

[snackfeat]

Yes it should.

[Tradu]

No it doesn't. That's just bullshit. If your self-esteem really hinges on whether or not other people have gear that has a similar item level to yours, that's your problem.



I'm not against specific cosmetic/mount-related Mythic-only rewards, but there is no reason to cap gear. If I pick up a 915+ from our heroic raid by chance, that doesn't devalue a mythic raider's achievement.

Who said that anybody gives a fuck what other people have? The problem is that people kill mythic Gul'dan for the first time and give all the loot to transmog/disenchant because of titanforging bullshit having given them higher gear already. That devalues killing mythic bosses, because the LFR/normal/heroic/M+/WQ item that you got WF/TF'd is better than the mythic items. Doing the hardest content should reward the best loot, and that is not currently the case.

There should definitely be limits to titanforging other than the global cap, because as it is currently in Legion, the reward structure is straight up broken. Whether that means capping it at 5 below the next difficulty up, or just capping all non-mythic/elite PvP gear at 5 below the base ilevel of the mythic/elite PvP gear is debatable, but the reward structure definitely needs to be fixed.

[Egitel]

Well wouldn't a cap up to mythic base ilvl solve the problem you are talking about? Then, mythic raiders wouldn't feel so inclined to go back to old content for possible upgrades because if the focus on mythic content they will be absolutely getting upgrades

Potentially, but not in all cases. Titanforged didn't even exist in WoD (though WF did, but it was capped at 6 ilvls) and even without TF the Mythic Goren Soul Repository trinket off of Oregorger in BRF remained BiS for Fire Mages for nearly the entire expansion. It may have been the entire xpac, but I think it was replaced by the crafted crit trinket after they buffed the max level you could upgrade it to, but I digress.

Point is a cap up to the basic ilvl of Mythic would still cause situations like that because some trinkets just have too much synergy with certain classes and specs, but it would reduce how often this occurs I suppose?

[Tradu]

no it should not since if it does you have no reason to ever help out your buddies in lower difficulties since you cant ever get an upgrade even if it is a very very very tiny chance like right now which is why the current titanforge system works excellent

You can help your buddies even if you don't get gear. That's kinda the point of helping friends, you don't need to be rewarded on top of doing that.

[Gaidax]

The system as it stands now kind of devalues the higher raiding echelons especially with how frequently an item can warforge / titanforge.

lolno?

Go ahead, find me an example of a guy who does not do mythic raiding, but has gear comparable to actual Mythic Raider (before you try - guys who killed Trilliax 3 times and Spellblade once don't count).

I am sure you will find some edgelords who manage to come close, but that either requires ungodly amount of time and/or divine luck.

Personally, I, as a Mythic Raider, don't give two fucks about some random Billy McNab rolling 925 socketed dungeon pants, because that shit is so rare and so irrelevant in a grand scheme of things, that I see no reason why that should even bother me.

It would be an issue if you could reasonably match or outgear actual mythic raiders (i.e. not grinding your ass out hoping for miracle shots at right slots), but it is simply not the thing really.

[Deadite]

The system as it stands now kind of devalues the higher raiding echelons especially with how frequently an item can warforge / titanforge.

It must be horrible being you. All you do is worry about how other people play the game and what gear they have. For being such an insecure worrywart you have my condolences.

[Deleted]

It isn't about other people getting gear, it is about being rewarded relative to the difficulty of the content you are doing.

Contrary to popular belief, the "hardcore" players are not quiting because of the grinds, but the lack of rewarding content. Burnout from grinding is just an effect

[Tradu]

lolno?

Go ahead, find me an example of a guy who does not do mythic raiding, but has gear comparable to actual Mythic Raider (before you try - guys who killed Trilliax 3 times and Spellblade once don't count).

I am sure you will find some edgelords who manage to come close, but that either requires ungodly amount of time and/or divine luck.

Personally, I, as a Mythic Raider, don't give two fucks about some random Billy McNab rolling 925 socketed dungeon pants, because that shit is so rare and so irrelevant in a grand scheme of things, that I see no reason why that should even bother me.

It would be an issue if you could reasonably match or outgear actual mythic raiders (i.e. not grinding your ass out hoping for miracle shots at right slots), but it is simply not the thing really.

Again, it doesn't matter what the random LFR idiots get. The problem is that the reward structure is broken for people who do higher end content(not even just mythic). You should not constantly be disenchanting loot from first kills for whatever difficulty you're progressing on, and that is a very frequent occurence in Legion(and it affects lower difficulties more, because there are more sources that can out-ilevel the gear drops from normal/heroic than from mythic)

[Gaidax]

Its not a question of self-esteem, its a very real problem that many people who would otherwise run mythic content questions why to run it if I can get 905+ gear from getting lucky titanforges from heroic content and below.

It's not a "very real problem", it's a made up thing literally, simply because it is literally impossible to actually reasonably gear up like that.

I am in a 2 nights per week Mythic Guild, I spend 6 hours per week raiding and another two-three hours doing dungeon or lower raid content, mostly for weekly chest. There is no way in hell I could gear like that with 8 hours per week dungeons grind and fuck my gear is not even that amazing.

[Jtbrig7390]

Your entitlement is just amazing, and you think that you deserve everything that someone honing their skill and ability deserves.

The amount of irony in this post is fucken amazing, Do you not realize the thread u made? yet you called me entitled. Not once did I say I deserved everything, but that is what you been saying.

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Well wouldn't a cap up to mythic base ilvl solve the problem you are talking about? Then, mythic raiders wouldn't feel so inclined to go back to old content for possible upgrades because if the focus on mythic content they will be absolutely getting upgrades

No they would still feel inclined to do it for the items they haven't replaced yet.

[stevan021]

Because most of you are too shit to ever kill mythic Gul'dan when it's current.

Holy shit people on this forum like talking trash lol

[analmoose]

If your self esteem hinges on "Wahhhh that person can get something and I'm not good enough" that's your problem. It goes both ways. The ones with low self esteem that caused these issues was NOT the high end players but the bad players who were jealous and started to call them special snowflakes pejoratively. It's funny you get infracted for calling LFR players baddies, but this phantom special snowflake term is never dealt with.

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And LFR players don't need high ilvl or tier. You're not forced to have tier so stop clamoring for it. Works both ways.

So doing m+15 or higher doesn't require higher ilvls? Can go into lfr, get some loots, and then NP clearing out m+18 ?


@OP No, ilvl is insignificant to anyone but the person working on their own. What should be different is the raid sets. LFR and Normal should have a set, Heroic and Mythic should have another, with recolors differentiating the two. Set looks are what stands out, they are the real status symbol. Having specific drops or sets only available in the hardest of difficulties should be the norm

[Flurryfang]

Yes, ohhh god yes. This would really solve my biggest problem right now, which is that most of my guilds raidgroup have items better then base mythic, so people have 0 motivation to go into mythic.


IF WF and TF maxed out at 5 item lvl under the current mythic base, what would be lost? The only lvl where it would have an effect is Heroic, but that just creates a natural line from heroic to mythic, which is currently lacking. Mythic has a problem right now and that is that people are not finding it rewarding enough to actually give a crap about it, even if their skill is there to do the content. Having a unique level of item lvl in mythic would make mythic players shine more out and make it a much more lucretive difficulty, where the reward is not only high, but totally unique for the difficulty.

[Gaidax]

Again, it doesn't matter what the random LFR idiots get. The problem is that the reward structure is broken for people who do higher end content(not even just mythic). You should not constantly be disenchanting loot from first kills for whatever difficulty you're progressing on, and that is a very frequent occurence in Legion(and it affects lower difficulties more, because there are more sources that can out-ilevel the gear drops from normal/heroic than from mythic)

Dunno? When we downed Guldan I did not see his gear getting disenchanted neither first nor second time and neither we DE'ed anything from Elisande even after 3rd kill.

You disenchanted gear from first kills in Mythic NH? Sorry mate, but I call bullshit on that one, unless your guild was like SUPER slow and even then it's improbable.

[Jaylock]

Yet people do the content anyway. Mythic raiders still raid mythic, converting from heroic groups (depending), despite the WF/TF system. Despite Jaylock claiming that no one will want to raid mythic because of TF, people still do.

We still raid heroic even though you can do mythic+ dungeons and get the same gear (if you're lucky). Whether or not there is another source cannot replace the fun (for a lot of people) of challenging yourself and your team in appropriate content.

I didn't say no one would want to raid mythic because of TF, I am just saying that the desire to do so is lessened when they know they can run heroic every week and almost guaranteed to get a wf/tf item.

My guild does a full NH Heroic clear every week. We kill all bosses in about an hour and a half as we have the difficulty on farm, and without fail, i see at least 2-3 pieces of TF 910+ gear dropping from it every week. Yes it takes longer, but the fact that it exists devalues the desire to want to kill a boss that is tuned 2-3 times as difficult just to get pieces of 900 gear with a chance up to 925. The difficulty vs. reward is minimized because of the TF system.