(NEW)Scarlet Inquistor's Expurgation - Ret Pally Legendary

[killwithpwr]

Well if it's exactly your point, please do tell me, have you ever managed to do upwards of 6kk dps on Scorpyron as Ret?

Arguing that Skorpycheese is at any rate a metric for performance other than epeen mesurement is idiotic.

Btw... Ret can reach way more than 6mil on Skorpyron... If you are lucky and faster than all the rest of the groups, and know how to save cds.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Arguing that Skorpycheese is at any rate a metric for performance other than epeen mesurement is idiotic.

Btw... Ret can reach way more than 6mil on Skorpyron... If you are lucky and faster than all the rest of the groups, and know how to save cds.

Sure as sure it's idiotic.
Let's argue Botanist.
Let's argue any other AoE fight, actually.
Who will come ontop?
A lock, or Ret?

Whose AoE is THE strongest?
And who has stronger ST damage to boot?

Then how can people really say Ret can't have stronger ST damage?

[Nition]

No, I don't.
But what I DO want, is to people to stap parading Ret AoE like some kind of justification for our ST damage being below middle.

I may have misplaced Demo and Affli, but the point stands.
And btw, do you see any Lock nerfs inbound?
Yet Ret recives both PvP and Dragonslaying AoE damage nerfs.
Yes, separate nerfs, so doubly so in PvP.

Yes, I mean 6 millions worth of DPS.
Doesnt matter if it's done to boss or not.
Ret AoE dps is not done to boss alone either.
And my point is , Ret AoE is not The strongest.

But for the sake of arguement, name a fight where Ret can surpass an Afflilock.

Right, there's none.

I in no way think our single target shouldn't be buffed because our AOE is good. I do however think complaining that our aoe isn't that great is a pointless argument. Our aoe is clearly one of the best.

I agree however, that the fact that affliction hasn't been nerfed is retarded. But again I don't think we should be using what is clearly an overpowered spec as justification for not having our own balance brought in line. Obviously I'd prefer our aoe not to be nerfed and our single target to be buffed at the same time, I just don't think its gonna happen.

Your whole point here is, affliction is better so we shouldn't be getting nerfs. No one wants to be nerfed, but I don't think using what is clearly an overpowered current spec is a good argument or point of comparison. Affliction is quite clearly an outlier.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Sure as sure it's idiotic.
Let's argue Botanist.
Let's argue any other AoE fight, actually.
Who will come ontop?
A lock, or Ret?

Whose AoE is THE strongest?
And who has stronger ST damage to boot?

Then how can people really say Ret can't have stronger ST damage?

Problem with Ret is really just ST outside of Crusade is just utter garbage. Divine Purpose and to some extend 4p T20 borrowing mastery on Blade of Justice was a solution for that, but the problem remains that you can't buff one end of Ret rotation without over-doing Crusade duration.

This is probably Blizzard's reasoning in reducing 4p T20 to flat 15% for Divine Hammer and BoJ. Because if they didn't, with high enough mastery and BoJ relic, BoJ will hit harder than Templar's Verdict. To rectify this problem the fundamental of Avenging Wrath/Crusade has to change to mirror something like Metamorphosis:

-Causes all Holy Power spender to deal 45% (Avenging Wrath) 60% (Crusade, 45% haste) during Avenging Wrath/Crusade
-Judgement causes all holy spender and BoJ/DH to deal increase damage for it's duration. (Baseline preferably if not just 4p T20, shortsighted as next tier you'd have to fix it again)
-Change 4p T20 to something along the lines of Judgement effect increased by 10-15%

[Reith]

I agree however, that the fact that affliction hasn't been nerfed is retarded. But again I don't think we should be using what is clearly an overpowered spec as justification for not having our own balance brought in line. Obviously I'd prefer our aoe not to be nerfed and our single target to be buffed at the same time, I just don't think its gonna happen.

Actually, Affliction Warlock AOE is buffed in 7.2.5, I'm pretty sure. Also, our AOE is nerfed in 7.2.5 via Divine Hammer doing 20% less (actual) damage, and single target is buffed by roughly 2%? in 7.2.5.

[Nition]

Actually, Affliction Warlock AOE is buffed in 7.2.5, I'm pretty sure. Also, our AOE is nerfed in 7.2.5 via Divine Hammer doing 20% less (actual) damage, and single target is buffed by roughly 2%? in 7.2.5.

So you basically just confirmed what I said? Even though I think its retarded what they're doing, using affliction as the scapegoat for our current state is pointless.

[Deleted]

Oh yeah forgot to mention the strength nerf we are getting along these lines.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Oh yeah forgot to mention the strength nerf we are getting along these lines.

Stop spreading misinformation. Blessing of the Ashbringer is to make our trait scale with ilvl. If you're at 905+ ilvl and Concordance 1 you should see about the same amount of STR gain with the flat 2000 STR. (Flask+pot etc inclusive)

There is ZERO REASON you would want Blessing of the Ashbringer at it's current state over the PTR version.

[Reith]

Stop spreading misinformation. Blessing of the Ashbringer is to make our trait scale with ilvl. If you're at 905+ ilvl and Concordance 1 you should see about the same amount of STR gain with the flat 2000 STR. (Flask+pot etc inclusive)

There is ZERO REASON you would want Blessing of the Ashbringer at it's current state over the PTR version.

Concordance has ZERO RELATION to Blessing of the Ashbringer, so no one knows why you brought it up - not even you know. Everyone gets Concordance, so it's a moot point. It's still a nerf until you manage to get heroic+ tomb gear probably.

[Deleted]

Sorry to interrupt the worshipping. meet u back in the dungeon.

[Talvindius]

So you basically just confirmed what I said? Even though I think its retarded what they're doing, using affliction as the scapegoat for our current state is pointless.

Affliction's current state is higher than it should be by a tiny bit whereas we're in a good place. We're getting buffed in the patch, afflic isn't.

If anything afflic is one of the specs that is helping us get stronger.

People also keep forgetting Ret's other key strengths, like blessings and lay.

Oh ye and that we have a cheat death on par with rogues, the OG cheat death, that we can also manually trigger.

Ret is arguably the most unkillable dps spec. Having top dps would be imbalanced just based on that.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Concordance has ZERO RELATION to Blessing of the Ashbringer, so no one knows why you brought it up - not even you know. Everyone gets Concordance, so it's a moot point. It's still a nerf until you manage to get heroic+ tomb gear probably.

Blessing of the Ashbringer gives us 4% STR increase which affects the Concordance proc. Just like how Draenei Passive and Armor passive also affects it.

Thus base line Concordance 1 will give you 4360 STR once the changes is made. Subsequent point in Concordance increases the STR proc by 327.

We will have a 1.09 STR multiplier come 7.2.5. Draenei will have a 1.1 STR multiplier.

There was no patch notes stating a nerf on Base STR and I DID say 905+ with Concordance 1 (Accounting for 0.04 of the effect) which should more than enough cover the 2000 STR change.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Oh Emperor guide my soul...

Blessing of the Ashbringer gives us 4% STR increase which affects the Concordance proc. Just like how Draenei Passive and Armor passive also affects it.

Thus base line Concordance 1 will give you 4360 STR once the changes is made. Subsequent point in Concordance increases the STR proc by 327.

We will have a 1.09 STR multiplier come 7.2.5. Draenei will have a 1.1 STR multiplier.

To take said proc into concideration, we must first figure out it's uptime.
So, what's the uptime?
afaik it's 1ppm.
Should we even factor it in?

Affliction's current state is higher than it should be by a tiny bit whereas we're in a good place. We're getting buffed in the patch, afflic isn't.

Dual PvP and Dragonslaying nerfs are called buffs now?

Speaking of good place, though.
What are the Ret standings on ST fights?
Does it look like we're in a good place?
Please don't give me "being middle of the pack is good" manthra.

People also keep forgetting Ret's other key strengths, like blessings and lay.

Key strengths?
Such as..?
Because what you listed are anything but.

Oh ye and that we have a cheat death on par with rogues, the OG cheat death, that we can also manually trigger.

Oh ye and that we have the worst mobility and longest rampup in game on par with none, with longest burst window, where said burst window makes or breaks our ENTIRE dps.

Ret is arguably the most unkillable dps spec. Having top dps would be imbalanced just based on that.

Could you please point me at anyone in particular within this very thread, who would demand "top ST dps" tucked ontop Retribution?
Failing that, could you please explain where did said hyperbole about "top ST dps" come from?

[Reith]

Blessing of the Ashbringer gives us 4% STR increase which affects the Concordance proc. Just like how Draenei Passive and Armor passive also affects it.

Thus base line Concordance 1 will give you 4360 STR once the changes is made. Subsequent point in Concordance increases the STR proc by 327.

We will have a 1.09 STR multiplier come 7.2.5. Draenei will have a 1.1 STR multiplier.

There was no patch notes stating a nerf on Base STR and I DID say 905+ with Concordance 1 (Accounting for 0.04 of the effect) which should more than enough cover the 2000 STR change.

You'd have to have 49k buffed strength (with bota) to equalize, which I'm pretty damn sure you can't get with 905 ilvl. Maybe you don't need quite heroic tomb level, but still, it's a nerf going into tomb.

Highest ilvl raiding ret in the west doesn't have that much strength. Seriously.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...r/illidan/pzgg

- - - Updated - - -

Affliction's current state is higher than it should be by a tiny bit whereas we're in a good place. We're getting buffed in the patch, afflic isn't.

No, we're not. We're going in with an AOE nerf and a trait nerf. ST is basically the same because they nerfed T19 2P and buffed non-finisher abilities by approximately 3.8%.

If anything afflic is one of the specs that is helping us get stronger.

Um, no?

People also keep forgetting Ret's other key strengths, like blessings and lay.

Blessings are pretty trivial tbh.

Oh ye and that we have a cheat death on par with rogues, the OG cheat death, that we can also manually trigger.

Okay, so do mages.

Ret is arguably the most unkillable dps spec. Having top dps would be imbalanced just based on that.

I don't want top DPS.

[killwithpwr]

Blessing of the Ashbringer gives us 4% STR increase which affects the Concordance proc. Just like how Draenei Passive and Armor passive also affects it.

Thus base line Concordance 1 will give you 4360 STR once the changes is made. Subsequent point in Concordance increases the STR proc by 327.

We will have a 1.09 STR multiplier come 7.2.5. Draenei will have a 1.1 STR multiplier.

There was no patch notes stating a nerf on Base STR and I DID say 905+ with Concordance 1 (Accounting for 0.04 of the effect) which should more than enough cover the 2000 STR change.

nope.

with 905 gear you barely scratch 38k strength, and the concordence doesnt proc enough to be factored in as baseline.

with ToS gear, if you raid at a high lvl or are a very lucky person, this BoTA nerf will not hit you as hard as others...

but the main effect of it as a buff will probably come when Argus releases.

[Reith]

To take said proc into concideration, we must first figure out it's uptime.
So, what's the uptime?
afaik it's 1ppm.
Should we even factor it in?

Oh yeah, for me it averaged to about 30% in my Nighthold heroic run last night. That would be up from 25% before.

[Deleted]

Problem with Ret is really just ST outside of Crusade is just utter garbage. Divine Purpose and to some extend 4p T20 borrowing mastery on Blade of Justice was a solution for that, but the problem remains that you can't buff one end of Ret rotation without over-doing Crusade duration.

This is probably Blizzard's reasoning in reducing 4p T20 to flat 15% for Divine Hammer and BoJ. Because if they didn't, with high enough mastery and BoJ relic, BoJ will hit harder than Templar's Verdict. To rectify this problem the fundamental of Avenging Wrath/Crusade has to change to mirror something like Metamorphosis:

-Causes all Holy Power spender to deal 45% (Avenging Wrath) 60% (Crusade, 45% haste) during Avenging Wrath/Crusade
-Judgement causes all holy spender and BoJ/DH to deal increase damage for it's duration. (Baseline preferably if not just 4p T20, shortsighted as next tier you'd have to fix it again)
-Change 4p T20 to something along the lines of Judgement effect increased by 10-15%

I don't understand. Meta gives DH's more burst than Ret. So... why do you think crusade is a problem? Crusade isn't a problem. Even prior to the nerf i doubt we would be top DPS in ST. I don't think BoJ would ever do more damage than TV because TV also benefits from mastery and BoJ is physical damage.
So... crusade is a problem because Crusader strike and BoJ do extra damage even though DH's do so much more spike damage with meta? :/

Like... don't accept the crap blizzard gives. End of the day they will just nerf and give you no compensation with no good justification. Better off the way we are. There's no use trying to negotiate with them, we always come out losing.

Thankfully concordance is extremely good for us. So, let's not do something stupid that will get us nerfed again. We are fine the way we are.

[Ulthane]

"Concordance of Legionfall now procs 70% less often with 70% less effect for retribution paladins" anyone?

Dont even joke about that. Id lose my tacos over that

[Angelyka]

Anyone noticed that Concordance uptime is much lower on ret than on most other specs?

[Morally Grey Storm]

I've noticed my Concordance doesn't proc at all.
As I don't have it just yet.