Would you Die for your Country?

[Revi]

Too vague.

If someone invaded us and threatened the lives of everyone I love, yes I would.

If my country wanted to send people to Africa to die fighting for rights to diamonds, no I wouldn't.

[Puupi]

Too vague.

If someone invaded us and threatened the lives of everyone I love, yes I would.

If my country wanted to send people to Africa to die fighting for rights to diamonds, no I wouldn't.

Hehe it's funny that Norwegians have had to come up with a new analogy/argument....they can't use the oil comparison.

[Sekach]

Well shit look at all these superbly relevant and preciously unique indiduals valuing their existence so highly. And to think i once defined humans as simple beasts driven solely by fear and lust.

[Revi]

A Country is a geopolitical construct, I ain't dying for no constructs.

Surely your country is more tangible than just lines on a map.

Mine protects my rights, keeps me safe, provides me with infrastructure, makes sure I have food and water, educated me, treats me if I'm sick, etc. etc. etc.

Brushing it off as just some political construct seems like a weird ideological thing.

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Hehe it's funny that Norwegians have had to come up with a new analogy/argument....they can't use the oil comparison.

Yeah it struck me that invading others for oil wouldn't make sense

[Deleted]

Heck no, dying for a country is for poor and dumb people.

[Puupi]

Surely your country is more tangible than just lines on a map.

Mine protects my rights, keeps me safe, provides me with infrastructure, makes sure I have food and water, educated me, treats me if I'm sick, etc. etc. etc.

Brushing it off as just some political construct seems like a weird ideological thing.

You are Norwegian, he is Russian.

[Revi]

You are Norwegian, he is Russian.

Yeah, but even if he might think his country does bad things, that still makes it more than just lines on a map.

[Deleted]

All it takes is one violent group to disrupt the whole system.

The US is the only country that even makes an effort to act as the police. If you don't want stronger, more violent people to come take your shit and kiss your girl, you'd better defend yourself.

Here's the problem. People play too much world of Warcraft, and watch too much TV, and then they really think we can all just get along. It's never going to happen, humans are violent and oppressive creatures.

[Elim Garak]

Surely your country is more tangible than just lines on a map.

Mine protects my rights, keeps me safe, provides me with infrastructure, makes sure I have food and water, educated me, treats me if I'm sick, etc. etc. etc.

That has nothing to do with the Country construct. A Country is just borders, society within borders is limited by them and thus different ways of doing things develop - speciation if you will. But if you remove all the borders on the planet and leave just one government - nothing will change in all those things you mentioned - well we will see lots of improvements.

The question will transform into - "Will you die for your planet?"

[Damajin]

........and what is that?

Be Seated

Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.

Men, all this stuff you've heard about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans, traditionally, love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle.

When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time.

Now, I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. Because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.

Now, an army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post don't know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating.

Now, we have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world. You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're going up against. By God, I do. We're not just going to shoot the bastards. We're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel.

Now, some of you boys, I know, are wondering whether or not you'll chicken-out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you will all do your duty. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do.

Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we're not interested in holding onto anything -- except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose, and we're gonna kick him in the ass. We're gonna kick the hell out of him all the time, and we're gonna go through him like crap through a goose!

Now, there's one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home, and you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you, "What did you do in the great World War II?" -- you won't have to say, "Well, I shoveled shit in Louisiana."

Alright now you sons-of-bitches, you know how I feel. Oh, I will be proud to lead you wonderful guys into battle anytime, anywhere.

[toxicrusader]

If by country you mean politicians making decisions behind a desk and sending other to fight for their personal interests... Hell no!

But I would die for my family and loved ones.

[Benitora]

If my country keeps on doing what it is doing now, by ignoring the Northern parts, spending all the money on southern projects and do not give a actual damn about the travel lengths up here, no. I would not die for my country.

I live in Norway, and southern politicians really do not give a damn about our problems up here in the north.
They destroy our defense, hack away at our possibility to fix our roads, and increase gas prices because the hacks down there can take the bus more often to and from work.
Do that up here, and you won't have much free time, as the bus does not go as often here as it does in the oh so great fucking south.
(I'm a tiny bit salty about the subject)

[Deleted]

Simple question.

My answer: Yes I would die for my country.

Eeeeh, nah.

[Ragelicious]

Didn't I just say that?

Seek help.

[Revi]

That has nothing to do with the Country construct. A Country is just borders, society within borders is limited by them and thus different ways of doing things develop - speciation if you will. But if you remove all the borders on the planet and leave just one government - nothing will change in all those things you mentioned - well we will see lots of improvements.

The question will transform into - "Will you die for your planet?"

One global government that everyone is happy with and that has all groupings cooperating peacefully and sharing the same goals and values seems nice.

I just don't think that's the likely outcome of a global government.

I think it's a fallacy to think of a country merely as borders though. You're not dying for lines on a map, you're dying for the rights of your government(i.e. the people, in a democratic country) to be sovereign.

[kail]

Vague question. I wouldn't sign up as a combat soldier and "die for my country" that would make little difference to the U.S.

If my death would be the direct requirement to saving the lives of my country's citizens, yes (and frankly would probably be forced to anyways).

[albionesp]

No.
10 chars.

[Sevyvia]

I suppose I would.

[Soeroah]

Nah, patriotism is dumb.

I might die for specific people I treasure, or innocent lives, but fuck dying for "the country", which is just a nice way of saying "politicians and the rich who don't want to fight themselves".

Human lives > the concept of a country.

[Elim Garak]

One global government that everyone is happy with and that has all groupings cooperating peacefully and sharing the same goals and values seems nice.

I just don't think that's the likely outcome of a global government.

We (you and me) will never see it, so there's no point to even bother about it.

I think it's a fallacy to think of a country merely as borders though. You're not dying for lines on a map, you're dying for the rights of your government(i.e. the people, in a democratic country) to be sovereign.

I'm certainly not dying for lines on a map, you are correct. And I'm certainly not dying for anyone's rights. With one exception - I will die fighting for my right to live. That's all. As the saying goes: it's better to live in chains than to die free.