[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Toroq]

The Keg Smash charge is a little more useful than what people are giving credit for.

With a 3 second BoS cd (disgusting), our rotation is KS -> BoS -> TP -> BoF -> BoS -> TP -> 1 sec gap -> KS, but BoS is off cooldown as well.

With the extra charge, you can use it during the gap and use BoS on cooldown, or if you gain the charge at the same time as BoS, you can hold it and use BoS without losing anything.

I don't think it's useful enough to offset the other changes we're getting though.

It does bring a bit more fluidity to our rotation, and looking back on it it will probably emerge as a strong DPS legendary in our currently pretty weak repertoire of DPS legendaries. But from a defensive standpoint it doesn't seem worth it.

Perhaps I'm wrong though, anything regarding this legendary at this point will be pretty feelycrafty.

Maybe chest + shoulders will be a good combo on fights where our defensive legendaries aren't needed or don't make much of a difference. They do take up 2 tier slots however, which would mean you have to use the mastery heavy helm if you want to have 4 piece equipped.

[keqe]

On PTR the "keg smash can have charges" change made keg smash have static 8s cooldown. Great.

edit: And stave off consumes a charge.

edit2: stave off puts keg smash to 8s CD always (with shoulders you lose a charge too). Nice to see CD just rollback with procs.


blizzard/10

[ReD-EyeD]

On PTR the "keg smash can have charges" change made keg smash have static 8s cooldown. Great.

Well this is clearly a bug.

Do you understand the whole point of PTR, right?

[keqe]

Well this is clearly a bug.

Do you understand the whole point of PTR, right?

I understand the point of PTR. However this is something that they could have easily seen the moment they just looked at tooltip. PTR is to mass test things that aren't crystal clear like interactions and stress durability which require manpower.

I just find it funny that this simple thing and many others just go right through this "Internal build".

[ribthanwa]

I understand the point of PTR. However this is something that they could have easily seen the moment they just looked at tooltip. PTR is to mass test things that aren't crystal clear like interactions and stress durability which require manpower.

I just find it funny that this simple thing and many others just go right through this "Internal build".

They do not aim to make PTR a completely polished game experience. If you see something blatently broken like that, point it out on the PTR forums, and then complain about it here if it isn't fixed by live. That's what you should do.

[keqe]

We are going to be ridiculously good for ToS. On PTR on bosses without adds (goroth, demonic inquisition (adds don't go to tank), sisters) I got 65% average dodge chance. And that was with the bugged keg smash making me have less BoF's and making me play like shit (=less BoS). On live getting to 70%+ avoidance won't be an issue and the more random stuff the bosses cast between attacks the more ridiculous it gets.

Even on add fight like Mistress I got 55% average avoidance.

If blizzard intends to nerf this I hope they cut the EB from abilities instead of nerfing mastery itself.

[ReD-EyeD]

We are going to be ridiculously good for ToS. On PTR on bosses without adds (goroth, demonic inquisition (adds don't go to tank), sisters) I got 65% average dodge chance. And that was with the bugged keg smash making me have less BoF's and making me play like shit (=less BoS). On live getting to 70%+ avoidance won't be an issue and the more random stuff the bosses cast between attacks the more ridiculous it gets.

Even on add fight like Mistress I got 55% average avoidance.

If blizzard intends to nerf this I hope they cut the EB from abilities instead of nerfing mastery itself.

I like the part where you ignore everything except dodge. Yes, dodge is of absolute importance for monks, but we have tremendously much less stuff to keep us alive, like cooldowns, shield blocks, absorbs, heals or just huge-ass armor.
Also, as you already stated, "bosses without adds" where you can actually utilize that elusive brawler stacks somehow, but the more stuff hits you the less it is effective to the point of not difference between live and ptr.

And they won't nerf mastery as it's actually very rarely stacked on any monks who prefers vers/haste or just plain crit for dps.

[keqe]

I like the part where you ignore everything except dodge. Yes, dodge is of absolute importance for monks, but we have tremendously much less stuff to keep us alive, like cooldowns, shield blocks, absorbs, heals or just huge-ass armor.
Also, as you already stated, "bosses without adds" where you can actually utilize that elusive brawler stacks somehow, but the more stuff hits you the less it is effective to the point of not difference between live and ptr.

And they won't nerf mastery as it's actually very rarely stacked on any monks who prefers vers/haste or just plain crit for dps.

Because of stagger, overall damage is the only thing we have to worry about. And huge dodge% is one way to achieve that. You do realize that 70% dodge equals 70% damage reduction? That is huge. And with more irregular stagger income the more effective purifies we can get further increasing the gain.

Also, unlike NH, ToS isn't full of adds so you will get full benefit on most bosses.

[ReD-EyeD]

You do realize that 70% dodge equals 70% damage reduction? That is huge.

Yeah, but its basically our only mitigation with a little bit of leather armoring.

While on my warrior I have 20% parry (with +3% basic dodge), 56% armor, permanent uptime of 30% reduction block with 49% of critical block (60% of all damage instead of 30%) and huge shield absorb bursts. And warriors are considered mid-tier tanks at best.

It's damage spikes that kills tanks (not always tho). But listen, aren't monks are good at that? Exactly! This is my whole point. Despite you saying that 70% dodge is a lot monks actually have the lowest mitigation of all tanks, BUT you can't compare tanks like that, especially special cases like monks.

And damn I hate that 5% stagger nerf so much, more than anything else in those changes.

[keqe]

Yeah, but its basically our only mitigation with a little bit of leather armoring.

While on my warrior I have 20% parry (with +3% basic dodge), 56% armor, permanent uptime of 30% reduction block with 49% of critical block (60% of all damage instead of 30%) and huge shield absorb bursts. And warriors are considered mid-tier tanks at best.

It's damage spikes that kills tanks (not always tho). But listen, aren't monks are good at that? Exactly! This is my whole point. Despite you saying that 70% dodge is a lot monks actually have the lowest mitigation of all tanks, BUT you can't compare tanks like that, especially special cases like monks.

And damn I hate that 5% stagger nerf so much, more than anything else in those changes.

And on 7.2.5 monk has 40% armor. Less than warrior but not that as much as you'd think. So your warrior has 20% parry and 3% dodge. Well that 3% dodge doesn't exist because bosses being 3 levels higher ignore 4.5% of it. So you are left with 15.5% parry. And average 45% damage is blocked.

I don't think those "huge shields" will be even close to bridging that gap in comparison to only taking 30% of hits in.

For other tanks you can't really compare 70% avoidance to being 70% damage reduction, but for monks it can be because stagger will make those irregular hits smooth. And how EB naturally works helps too. This isn't WoD/MoP anymore where bosses 2 hit you.

And my point is, that we will have both immunity to burst (with stagger) and we will even have humongous overall damage avoidance. I doubt that will stay.

[Grobovshik]

And my point is, that we will have both immunity to burst (with stagger) and we will even have humongous overall damage avoidance. I doubt that will stay.

Raids are about doing mechanics while doing damage anyway. Even for tanks.

[Tech614]

While on my warrior I have 20% parry (with +3% basic dodge), 56% armor, permanent uptime of 30% reduction block with 49% of critical block (60% of all damage instead of 30%) and huge shield absorb bursts. And warriors are considered mid-tier tanks at best.

And in spite of having "all that" your warrior is still far worse then a brewmaster at surviving in mythic...

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to argue, Brewmaster already shits on every tank but Guardian and those 2 are pretty close to each other. The patch is adjusting both, but both will still be the 2 strongest tanks in ToS(MoU change especially means nothing when most damage in ToS is physical).

Prot War and VDH are likely to top the damage meters, but they are both going to be far worse options for progression survival. Prot Pal has their utility and Blood is sitting in the corner crying.

You should stop crying about any changes, because Brewmaster is still gonna be at the top. They might even surpass Guardian out right instead of being neck and neck with each other.

[keqe]

Raids are about doing mechanics while doing damage anyway. Even for tanks.

And where did I say you have to ignore mechanics and damage?

[Grobovshik]

And where did I say you have to ignore mechanics and damage?

I meant its not about tank survival anymore.

[ReD-EyeD]

I meant its not about tank survival anymore.

Basically this. Unless you're in top10 world guild doing the top first race. And everyone below just parroting what you're doing.

Tank balance right now is the best as ever in 12 years.

[keqe]

I meant its not about tank survival anymore.

During those first weeks it is. You aren't overgearing the place. Every healer global used on you could have been used on someone else when you use minimum amount of healers and healers have bad gear because gear is funneled to DPS.

Why do you think guardians were so used on NH. Paladin did more DPS and had more utility. Why wasn't it full of paladins in the first weeks by top guilds?

- - - Updated - - -

Basically this. Unless you're in top10 world guild doing the top first race. And everyone below just parroting what you're doing.

Tank balance right now is the best as ever in 12 years.

"it doesn't matter outside of top 10" is one of the top 10 stupidest arguments on these forums.

I agree the tank balance is better than it used to be, especially in 7.2. But where did I argue that monk is good and everyone is shit? My only point from the beginning was that the current PTR system will make us overpowered.

Arguing about tank philosophy semantics is stupid in this context.

[ReD-EyeD]

"it doesn't matter outside of top 10" is one of the top 10 stupidest arguments on these forums.

Can you please not quote things that I didn't say? Please check what I was quoting myself. That answer was to the guy saying that it's not about survival anymore. Which I'm actually agreeing to, but every single world first kill is done being undergeared (by blizzard standards of progression) and survival is actually a big matter there, but not for other 99,999% of the guilds around the world.

And by parroting I meant blindly following flavor of the month. Even if we had an absolutely perfect balance between all tanks, but world first sargeras was made by, let's say, DK then the next 3 months we will have at least half of tier2 guilds running DKs too.

[vsb]

What relics should I use for progression raids? I have 3/3 hot blooded atm, because 6% damage reduction is quite strong. But it's getting nerfed and 3% damage reduction doesn't look that strong. I know that many brewmasters use Face Palm relics, I, personally, not interested with increasing my DPS, I'm conservative tank and the only thing I'm trying to maximize is my survivability. I looked over other traits and didn't find anything that's clearly better, but I would like to get other opinions.

[dcc626]

What relics should I use for progression raids? I have 3/3 hot blooded atm, because 6% damage reduction is quite strong. But it's getting nerfed and 3% damage reduction doesn't look that strong. I know that many brewmasters use Face Palm relics, I, personally, not interested with increasing my DPS, I'm conservative tank and the only thing I'm trying to maximize is my survivability. I looked over other traits and didn't find anything that's clearly better, but I would like to get other opinions.

if you arent going to run facepalm or hot blooded, you probably want to be running potent kick.

[Juliansfist]

Face palm also offers significant defence as it reduces the CD on brews.