Argus raid set to be worst one since Dragon Soul?

[FelPlague]

Funny how everybody keeps pointing out the demons that haven't died in the nether. Guess you don't mind having the same bosses brought back for the 27th time, that will surely make a pretty exciting raid.

Kil'jaeden for instance. Kicked his ass in Sunwell, now we kick his ass in ToS, but we don't kill him because that would be just nonsense right? He just retreats to Argus so we kick his ass again in the next raid. While at it, bring back Mannoroth, Archimonde, Tichondrius, Magtheridon, Balnazzar, Anetheron, Mephistroth, Brutallus(even though hes a pushover world boss), Hakkar who got his ass beat up too in the hunter questline, Azgalor, Kazzak, Jaraxxus, Malchezar or whatever his name is.

What's more, i actually agree. They need to bring all these guys back for the millionth time, otherwise it will just feel wrong to be fighting a bunch of nobodies.

Also, if Sargeras is not the last boss, then who? Unless Azshara and N'zoth are chilling in argus, Sargeras will be the last boss, there's no other alternative...

btw most of the charecters you list we have fought ONCE TO TWICE BEFORE MAX nice try "millionath time"

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A boss in a raid that's all, no reason at all to believe we will kill him.

we didnt kill garrosh, we did not kill ragnaros in molten core, we dd not kill plenty of bosses bro
we didnt kill ANY of the watchers in udluar

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The point to my post was those characters have established lore. Hekkar was the first major demon to come to Azeroth through the portal.

you mean hakkar? yes it is weird, his name is the same as the blood god we killed in the troll raid...

[Theoris]

Tichondrius and Mannoroth (and maybe Archimonde; they haven't really made it clear) aren't dead since they didn't die in the Twisting Nether. Even if they were, there are still numerous high-ranking demons within the Legion for us to (potentially) finish off on Argus:


Hakkar the Houndmaster (hopefully with his actual appearance and not just a fel lord model)
Lord Kazzak
Jaraxxus
Malchezaar
Socrethar
Brutallus
Magtheridon
Azgalor
Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar
Mephistroth
Mal'Ganis
Anetheron (I'll honestly be very surprised if a Nathrezim council isn't among the bosses)

And that's just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Sure, a lot of those would be recycled bosses, but that's what happens when you extend "cannot die outside the Twisting Nether" to all demons.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Tichondrius and Mannoroth (and maybe Archimonde; they haven't really made it clear) aren't dead since they didn't die in the Twisting Nether. Even if they were, there are still numerous high-ranking demons within the Legion for us to (potentially) finish off on Argus:


Hakkar the Houndmaster (hopefully with his actual appearance and not just a fel lord model)
Lord Kazzak
Jaraxxus
Malchezaar
Socrethar
Brutallus
Magtheridon
Azgalor
Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar
Mephistroth
Mal'Ganis
Anetheron (I'll honestly be very surprised if a Nathrezim council isn't among the bosses)

And that's just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Sure, a lot of those would be recycled bosses, but that's what happens when you extend "cannot die outside the Twisting Nether" to all demons.

Balnazzar died in the Netherlight Temple which is in the Twisting Nether.

[Magnagarde]

Archimonde's fate could've been written so much better.

For instance, they could've made it so Sargeras, furious over Archimonde's second failure, shackled him on a Legion world where he is being tortured over his incompetence. Somewhere along Legion's questlines, we'd travel to this world, unsuspecting that Arachimonde is there. Upon entering this massive stronghold, we'd find Archimonde and his body being broken and scarred, ultimately running away to save our characters' lives. They could then pick his story up whenever they see fit, while also making it all look extremely Burning Legionish and senseful.

[MrLachyG]

snip

I'll finish your post off with the Vanilla and BC raid characters who had any sort of lore

Molten Core - only one really notable here was Ragnaros, maybe Baron Geddon but the rest are just lacking lorewise
Blackwing Lair - just Nefarian, rest are nobodies really
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj - General Rajaxx has some lore attached to him, but again that's about it really
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj - obviously C'Thun
Onyxia's Lair - yeah Onyxia has lore attached to her

Karazhan - Moroes was probably the only one who had any lore attached, the rest were new
Gruul's/Magtheridon's Lair - just Gruul really, Magtheridon was a throwaway character in WC3
Serpentshrine Cavern - Lady Vashj was the only one of any importance lorewise
The Eye - Kael'thas, nobody else
Battle for Mt Hyjal - Archimonde, nobody else
Black Temple - Illidan definitely, one could make an argument for Gorefiend and Gurtogg but not really
Sunwell Plateau - Kil'jaeden, I'm not counting Kalecgos cause we don't fight him really, we fight the thing controlling him. Brutallus has
reappeared in Legion but thats hardly indicative of being important lorewise

[omfgreally]

OP has a point.

Just like TBC, making heros like Illidan, Kael'thas and Lady Vashj bad guys, only to end up recon Illidan's death.

We blood elves are still without a king, queen, prince or princess. Just a regent lord...

Kael'thas in TBC was the same voice actor but the character wouldn't have done what he did.

[Theoris]

Balnazzar died in the Netherlight Temple which is in the Twisting Nether.

Oh right... I forgot about that.

[stomination]

Well, not to dampen your bitching, but Demons cannot be killed outside of the Twisting Nether, so who did we kill again???? Even Kil'Jaeden when we beat him in Tomb isn't dead. I dare say you could even see Archimonde come back.

we fight both at the same damn time.

[Deleted]

I thought I was reading a fanfiction Dungeon Journal for a second. Good job on this paragraph.

Thank you

I've actually changed my mind.

Maiev isn't going to turn to the Legion.

She is going to turn to the void lords / old gods.

At the moment, Maiev isn't in a healthy state of mind. She hates the legion. She hates Illidan / the Illidari. She is tolerating the I-squad's freedom because of the Legion threat. But she is running on hatred. And all the while... the void lords / old gods are whispering into her ear.

Her current state of mind is that the I-squad is being allowed freedom to deal with the Legion threat, but that once the Legion threat is dealt with, the I-squad will be put back in prison. That's what's keeping her above water. The "knowledge" that the I-squads freedom is temporary.

But the I-squad is vastly more powerful than the Wardens are. She does not have the power to put the I-squad back in prison. Not without the allied forces' power backing her.

Once the Legion threat is dealt with, she will turn to the allied forces for support to put the I-squad back in prison. She will not see this as a favor she's asking. The allied forces backing her to put the I-squad back in prison, to her, will be the only acceptable option. It will be what WILL happen. But... it won't. The allied forces won't agree to turn against the I-squad. Whatever transgressions they committed in the past, they served their punishment - 10.000 years imprisonment. And their help in dealing with the Legion threat is invaluable. They will be "forgiven" by the allied forces, and accepted.

This will put Maiev over the edge.

The old gods / void lords, with all their scheming and whispers, will convince her that all of the allied forces are corrupted and must be dealt with.

She will turn. To the void.

Legion's final raid will be a transitional raid to the next expansion (old gods / void lords) with a corrupted Maiev as (second?) final boss.

I know this is a lot of speculation (this is what we're doing here, right), but from my perspective, there's a couple of things that CAN NOT HAPPEN:

- Maiev can NOT accept the permanent freedom of the I-squad. Her hatred is too deep.
- The I-squad CAN NOT go back to jail. Because... DH class...

The combination of these two things is the basis of my entire theory. She cannot accept them being free, and they cannot go back to jail. That's why i believe she WILL turn.

[MrLachyG]

Thank you

I've actually changed my mind.

Maiev isn't going to turn to the Legion.

She is going to turn to the void lords / old gods.

At the moment, Maiev isn't in a healthy state of mind. She hates the legion. She hates Illidan / the Illidari. She is tolerating the I-squad's freedom because of the Legion threat. But she is running on hatred. And all the while... the void lords / old gods are whispering into her ear.

Her current state of mind is that the I-squad is being allowed freedom to deal with the Legion threat, but that once the Legion threat is dealt with, the I-squad will be put back in prison. That's what's keeping her above water. The "knowledge" that the I-squads freedom is temporary.

But the I-squad is vastly more powerful than the Wardens are. She does not have the power to put the I-squad back in prison. Not without the allied forces' power backing her.

Once the Legion threat is dealt with, she will turn to the allied forces for support to put the I-squad back in prison. She will not see this as a favor she's asking. The allied forces backing her to put the I-squad back in prison, to her, will be the only acceptable option. It will be what WILL happen. But... it won't. The allied forces won't agree to turn against the I-squad. Whatever transgressions they committed in the past, they served their punishment - 10.000 years imprisonment. And their help in dealing with the Legion threat is invaluable. They will be "forgiven" by the allied forces, and accepted.

This will put Maiev over the edge.

The old gods / void lords, with all their scheming and whispers, will convince her that all of the allied forces are corrupted and must be dealt with.

She will turn. To the void.

Legion's final raid will be a transitional raid to the next expansion (old gods / void lords) with a corrupted Maiev as (second?) final boss.

I know this is a lot of speculation (this is what we're doing here, right), but from my perspective, there's a couple of things that CAN NOT HAPPEN:

- Maiev can NOT accept the permanent freedom of the I-squad. Her hatred is too deep.
- The I-squad CAN NOT go back to jail. Because... DH class...

The combination of these two things is the basis of my entire theory. She cannot accept them being free, and they cannot go back to jail. That's why i believe she WILL turn.

Maybe she will turn to Jaina who lets face it is in a similar situation who too has been corrupted

[Doomchicken]

Maybe she will turn to Jaina who lets face it is in a similar situation who too has been corrupted

Being angry is not the same as being corrupted.

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This is also the dumbest thread I've seen this week.

[SL1200]

They've probably changed their minds about having a "filler" raid akin to the Ruby Sanctum. I think it will be a smaller non tier raid to tide the players over to the next expansion. Maybe it has 3-4 bosses. Maybe only one.

[McFuu]

Tichondrius and Mannoroth (and maybe Archimonde; they haven't really made it clear) aren't dead since they didn't die in the Twisting Nether. Even if they were, there are still numerous high-ranking demons within the Legion for us to (potentially) finish off on Argus:


Hakkar the Houndmaster (hopefully with his actual appearance and not just a fel lord model)
Lord Kazzak
Jaraxxus
Malchezaar
Socrethar
Brutallus
Magtheridon
Azgalor
Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar
Mephistroth
Mal'Ganis
Anetheron (I'll honestly be very surprised if a Nathrezim council isn't among the bosses)

And that's just the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

Sure, a lot of those would be recycled bosses, but that's what happens when you extend "cannot die outside the Twisting Nether" to all demons.

Hakkar is "killed" in the Hunter campaign I believe. Don't know if there is an established limit on how long it takes Demons to "come back"

[Video Games]

I really doubt it. Tov and en were the worst raids they've made. Yes, more than ds and toc.

[beelgers]

For those saying Maiev will "turn". I don't think that's necessary. She's never really been "good" or stable.

[Nebulatica]

What if we had several "encounters" with Sargeras throughout the Argus raid, weakening and pushing him back and or killing different forms/parts of him. If he would even be defeated this expansion, I think it would be a fizzle to kill him in 1 fight at the very end when we haven't even seen him yet. Could have different bosses sprinkled between, and I agree that there are plenty of demons that aren't "technically" dead, but I'd rather fight a boss fresh out of someones imagination than Archimonde or Tichondrius again. I'm expecting a little sprinkling of Void Lord introduction as well somehow. Guess we will see...

[micwini]

You refuse to accept anything that doesn't align with your views, and instead of adding anything to the discussion or simply ignoring it, you proceed to make personal attacks. Very predictable at this point.

This is basically 99% of the people here, including moderators who will just infract you or close your thread for it.

[beelgers]

What if we had several "encounters" with Sargeras throughout the Argus raid, weakening and pushing him back and or killing different forms/parts of him. If he would even be defeated this expansion, I think it would be a fizzle to kill him in 1 fight at the very end when we haven't even seen him yet. Could have different bosses sprinkled between, and I agree that there are plenty of demons that aren't "technically" dead, but I'd rather fight a boss fresh out of someones imagination than Archimonde or Tichondrius again. I'm expecting a little sprinkling of Void Lord introduction as well somehow. Guess we will see...

So like Spine and Madness (lesser extent the boat with Thrall using the beam) but like 8 fights instead of 2? :P

Mostly just kidding. I actually thought the Deathwing concept was okay considering it made no sense to fight DW at full strength

[Mirishka]

That's a bit dumb though. We already had a Warden get corrupted and work for the Legion. To pull that exact plotline again so soon would be extra dumb. Also, it was Maiev who released the Illidari from their imprisonment in the Vault of the Wardens in the first place. Why would she be so salty about a decision that she made that it would make her fall to Legion corruption? Her becoming corrupted by the Legion and work for them because of a decision she made for the better of Azeroth as a whole would be the absolute most idiotic thing anyone could ever write.

Pretty much the exact post I was going to make. To have her turn makes no sense at all.

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So like Spine and Madness (lesser extent the boat with Thrall using the beam) but like 8 fights instead of 2? :P

Mostly just kidding. I actually thought the Deathwing concept was okay considering it made no sense to fight DW at full strength

I thought Spine was pretty awesome, it really gave you a sense of 'holy f**k this dragon is HUGE'. Would have made no sense for DW to be a 'tank and spank' at that size, he'd one-shot pretty much anything we can play as.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I thought Spine was pretty awesome, it really gave you a sense of 'holy f**k this dragon is HUGE'. Would have made no sense for DW to be a 'tank and spank' at that size, he'd one-shot pretty much anything we can play as.

I mean maybe they could of had one phase where we fight his human form for a bit. I wouldn't of minded that, not for the whole fight though.