Are Casual Mythic Raiders Going Extinct?

[Roiids]

For sure. I play every day, do all the AP WQs, do my random heroic, get in my 10 each week and rarely more, and I just got 52 on my third weapon. If you don't have 52 at least once by now it's cause you're just not playing.

You play more than most though. I do 3 emissary quests at 1 login every 3 days. 1 M10 and then broken shore stuff. Also raid 6 hours a week of mythic. I am still 400K short of concordance.

[Saracens]

You play more than most though. I do 3 emissary quests at 1 login every 3 days. 1 M10 and then broken shore stuff. Also raid 6 hours a week of mythic. I am still 400K short of concordance.

That does seem a bit odd, considering if you're current on AK each base WQ would give 3.5 million AP. Hope you finished off that 400k by killing 12 mobs!

[Roiids]

That does seem a bit odd, considering if you're current on AK each base WQ would give 3.5 million AP. Hope you finished off that 400k by killing 12 mobs!

3.5mm isn't much when you need 520MM for concordance.

[Banard]

And maybe a few more buffs! Quite liked stats/mastery/crit buffs but they would need to be slightly more widespread to avoid smaller raiding groups losing out

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You're entire post reaks of "my opinion is fact" when in reality you're lumping people in the top 100 that do split runs, have strict requirement for AP, up to 5 alts (in Methods case) and shit like extended raid hours and mandatory time off work for new raids to, say the guild I'm in who were on task to hit around R130 on guldan M before we had roster issues and landed at 200ish... Who do 0 split raids, have 0 AP requirements, strictly raid 4 times a week with no extensions or bonus days, have no requirements with what you do outside of raid or any of that bullshit and you believe me we are far from the only ones too.

At best, 750 of the guys that have currently killed Guldan are semi-hardcore, but the lower you get in mythic kills the more casual it becomes. If a guild raids 2 days a week and is 10/10, they're casual but fucking good players.

Its not opinion it is fact. Yo really need to open your eyes to what true casuals are like. People fling that word around willy nilly these days...the fact is no mythic guild is casual. There is no "casual mythic guild." Do not get me wrong there are magnitudes of difference between the top 1% and top 0.1% but at that level its not skill that differentiates but retarded behaviour as you refereed too.

The world casual should not be added to any mythic raid...if you want a feel for a casual guild join a heroic or normal guild....find a guild who is working on HEORIC guldan...it will open your eyes a little into the world of "casual wow players".....considering only 32% of guilds even kill heroic guldan.

I understand in the spectrum of mythic guilds there are different levels of "effort" but casual is not a term to be used for mythic guilds. To do so means you don't understand WoW player base or your position in it.

understand the nuisance i am trying to explain here?

Another example of this ...is what is the population of wow? To me its wow progress #...which is around 200-300K people...(ball park # based on eyeballing the server list)...but i know full well that is not the true population...just the GUILD RAIDING population....ie

* Population - amount of unique players that meet any of the two conditions:
- has a level 110 character that killed something in Tier 19 Heroic Mode
- has a level 110 character in a guild that killed something in Tier 19 Heroic Mode

This is just a small portion of the wow players......and only 1% of that group has killed mythic guldan. Now...the original question is, its hard to find a "casual" mythic guild that clears raids.....and the following statement stands true,

"Although there are different levels of effort in mythic raiding guilds, no mythic raiding guild is casual...especially not one that has cleared mythic raids".

[primalmatter]

Its not opinion it is fact. Yo really need to open your eyes to what true casuals are like. People fling that word around willy nilly these days...the fact is no mythic guild is casual. There is no "casual mythic guild." Do not get me wrong there are magnitudes of difference between the top 1% and top 0.1% but at that level its not skill that differentiates but retarded behaviour as you refereed too.

The world casual should not be added to any mythic raid...if you want a feel for a casual guild join a heroic or normal guild....find a guild who is working on HEORIC guldan...it will open your eyes a little into the world of "casual wow players".....considering only 32% of guilds even kill heroic guldan.

I understand in the spectrum of mythic guilds there are different levels of "effort" but casual is not a term to be used for mythic guilds. To do so means you don't understand WoW player base or your position in it.

understand the nuisance i am trying to explain here?

Another example of this ...is what is the population of wow? To me its wow progress #...which is around 200-300K people...(ball park # based on eyeballing the server list)...but i know full well that is not the true population...just the GUILD RAIDING population....ie




This is just a small portion of the wow players......and only 1% of that group has killed mythic guldan. Now...the original question is, its hard to find a "casual" mythic guild that clears raids.....and the following statement stands true,

"Although there are different levels of effort in mythic raiding guilds, no mythic raiding guild is casual...especially not one that has cleared mythic raids".

I always referred to casual as time spent...

I used to play the game for roughly ten hours a week and considered myself a casual player who happened to full clear mythic. The issue I am having now is the time requirements outside of raiding in order to have the necessary items for progression.

Most past expansions I simply played the AH and lived easy of off mount carry money that I never really had to invest large amount of time and while.

I got the low artifact knowledge blues atm.

[Deleted]

Its not opinion it is fact. Yo really need to open your eyes to what true casuals are like. People fling that word around willy nilly these days...the fact is no mythic guild is casual. There is no "casual mythic guild." Do not get me wrong there are magnitudes of difference between the top 1% and top 0.1% but at that level its not skill that differentiates but retarded behaviour as you refereed too.

The world casual should not be added to any mythic raid...if you want a feel for a casual guild join a heroic or normal guild....find a guild who is working on HEORIC guldan...it will open your eyes a little into the world of "casual wow players".....considering only 32% of guilds even kill heroic guldan.

I understand in the spectrum of mythic guilds there are different levels of "effort" but casual is not a term to be used for mythic guilds. To do so means you don't understand WoW player base or your position in it.

understand the nuisance i am trying to explain here?

Another example of this ...is what is the population of wow? To me its wow progress #...which is around 200-300K people...(ball park # based on eyeballing the server list)...but i know full well that is not the true population...just the GUILD RAIDING population....ie




This is just a small portion of the wow players......and only 1% of that group has killed mythic guldan. Now...the original question is, its hard to find a "casual" mythic guild that clears raids.....and the following statement stands true,

"Although there are different levels of effort in mythic raiding guilds, no mythic raiding guild is casual...especially not one that has cleared mythic raids".

Casual doesn't mean bad players though, that's the issue I have with your "fact".

Guild A has cleared 10/10m with a respectable 2 day schedule, they raided 8 hours a week and are now raiding 2-3hours a week clearing farm.
Guild B has is currently progressing on Krosus Mythic with a 3-4 day a week schedule and will continue to do this until ToS.

Casual is literally defined as "a person who does something irregularly" along with "relaxed and unconcerned" so explain to me how a guild that has to put twice as much time into their gameplay is LESS casual than a guild of BETTER players, raiding 50% as much. Guild B are just better players, pure and simple.

The same applies for PvP, many seasons have had MASSIVE FoTM influxes, for example Season 13 at the start of MoP where Warriors were oneshotting people. There was a Warrior on EU with --->49<--- 3v3 matches won who got a rank 1 title, compared to a shaman slightly lower down with something stupid like 1400 games played.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

It's the 40 hour a week guilds that are going extinct. But requiring a full clear is not easy on two nights. The raids have gotten seriously difficult and are lasting considerably shorter so that is a lot to ask. But we are recruiting on two ight schedule. Tuesday and Wednesday 7 est pull time. Us servers, horde side. Need some ranged damage dealers mostly. Been raiding for 8 years. Pm me if interested.

[Vaerys]

A lot of people are talking past each other due to differing ideas on what casual means.

To some, casual means you don't spend a lot of time in game.
To some, casual means you don't care about optimizing.
To some, casual means you don't research fights before encountering them for the first time.
To some, casual means you dont have orange numbers on warcraftlogs.
To some, casual means you don't compete for world firsts.

The more of these criteria you count as being casual, the less casual you probably are.

I raid with several groups.

1) 10/10 heroic, 3 nights a week in progression, but H NH is on one-night farm where we seldom wipe, alts are welcome. Some have concordance, some do not, some farm the shit out of mythic+, some do not. We're server transferring to progress in Mythic ToS.
2) 7/10 Heroic progression. Just killed Spellblade. This is a joint effort between the better players in two guilds with a wide variety of players. Only a few these people have ever done a +10 mythic dungeon.
3) 3/10 Heroic progression. Everybody can come. This group includes somebody's grandmother playing a Destruction warlock that refuses to cast Chaos Bolt because she doesn't like it.

To the most hardcore players, all of these groups are casual. They don't even raid mythic!
To the most casual player, all of these groups are hardcore. They raid Heroic!

[Banard]

Casual doesn't mean bad players though, that's the issue I have with your "fact".

No one stated that casual = bad players. Casual is how people approach their game. Its in their behaviour. Its how you play this game.

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3) 3/10 Heroic progression. Everybody can come. This group includes somebody's grandmother playing a Destruction warlock that refuses to cast Chaos Bolt

perfect example...this doesn't mean the guild is full of bad players...its their approach to the game.

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I always referred to casual as time spent...

I used to play the game for roughly ten hours a week and considered myself a casual player who happened to full clear mythic .

You didn't spend 10 hours a week clearing a raid i guarantee you didn't.

Every xpac up to this xpac was:

Step 1: play a shit load make my toon optimal outside raiding
Step 2: watch guides on class/boss/sim - research
Step 3: clear content

If your clearing first raid on mythic then you spent alot of hours doing step 1.

Meanwhile the casual guy isnt even max level yet....
Meanwhile...the casual guy is hitting dungeons for the first time...
Meanwhile the casual guild just down the first boss on normal.....

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I got the low artifact knowledge blues atm.

This changes over time...i stop caring about AP around xmas time...was getting the wow blues in general and just logging for raids and then every odd weekend playing a shit load for 1 day. I still kept up on AP with the guild and we are currently 9/10M.

They key is not to think about AP and just play the game....find a short term goal...do that then move on...the AP come in just playing the game.

...my own wow blues kind of over now and for the past two weeks i cant get enough.....

[Xjev]

Why do people even think that casuals are supposed to raid mythic?

They are not supposed to as have to, but they do it in casual schedule with slower pace, if they like to.

[Deleted]

I raid with several groups.

Well you are definitely not casual.

[Saracens]

3.5mm isn't much when you need 520MM for concordance.

Yeah but with all the double pops and AK still having a few percentages to go it's not going to be that bad. Myself who only plays a few hours every other night, plus 9 hours a week for raids are moving to 54 soon. Very casual play and making smart use of your time can allot you decent goals completed.

[Vaerys]

Well you are definitely not casual.

Even that is a matter of perspective. I did not raid with my 10/10 Heroic Nighthold group when it was progression for them because I could not commit to the late nights three times a week. Now that it is on farm and they are doing it in one night, I can.

[SupBrah]

I don't think it's that "casual mythic raiders" are going extinct, more that a lot of "mythic raiders" realized they're not as hardcore as they think.


A lot of guilds got a little too big headed thanks to the general faceroll that was known as mythic Emerald Nightmare. Many guilds who usually would never be considered mythic guilds were able to clear it.

In comes Nighthold, and many of those "hardcore raiding guilds" ended up getting put into their place real quick.

[Azarak]

I don't have it yet and I am indeed playing. Just not like you. I don't go out of my way to do AP WQs, but I am playing. I rarely do dungeons and never raid beyond LFR, but I am playing. I don't have Concordance yet, but I am playing. Just not like you.

I do literally one mythic 10 for the cache a week and complete maybe 5/7 emissaries + some broken shore world quests and I have 2 specs with concordance... I don't even raid anymore and haven't in weeks (not like progression raiding gives much AP anyway). Ever since 7.2, I stopped trying so hard to get AP to save my sanity. He's pretty right to say you aren't doing much at all if you don't have concordance by now.

[Krille]

I don't think it's that "casual mythic raiders" are going extinct, more that a lot of "mythic raiders" realized they're not as hardcore as they think.


A lot of guilds got a little too big headed thanks to the general faceroll that was known as mythic Emerald Nightmare. Many guilds who usually would never be considered mythic guilds were able to clear it.

In comes Nighthold, and many of those "hardcore raiding guilds" ended up getting put into their place real quick.

It was the exact opposite for us. We were rank 1500 world in EN mythic due to roster issues and being stuck on Eye/Cenarius for 200+ wipes. But in NH we managed to finish at rank 500 (and we even had roster issues this time around as well, we raided like 4-5 times during all of february). Some guilds die, some new guilds appear. We've got several new recruits that are doing great that started playing the game in WoD. Mythic raiding is def a step up from heroic, and i do think some of those guilds "stuck" at 3/10 on wowprogress have just disbanded/stopped raiding. I've just found that the players that get stuck, they don't flat out quit the game, they switch guilds or they turn to heroic farming.

However, even if EN was an easy raid besides eye/cenarius i think it was a great introduction to mythic raiding. People that never dreamed of doing mythic could suddenly clear it. Even if only a small % of those players went on to fail in NH or swap guilds because they wanted to progress, i see it as a win for the mythic raiding scene that more people got to do it.

[darklogrus]

On my connected realm 2 grps are 7/10 and 4 grps are 1-3/10. Based on what you are asking, they definitely do not exist on my realm lol

[Deleted]

He's pretty right to say you aren't doing much at all if you don't have concordance by now.

There is a difference between "you aren't doing much" and what I replied to: "you just aren't playing".

[Roiids]

Yeah but with all the double pops and AK still having a few percentages to go it's not going to be that bad. Myself who only plays a few hours every other night, plus 9 hours a week for raids are moving to 54 soon. Very casual play and making smart use of your time can allot you decent goals completed.

Oh by no means was I complaining, I'll easily get concordance in a week without any effort at all. Im 912 ilvl as well. I was just saying that the folks who have it already def play a lot more than I do. Some folks in my guild had it last week already.

Another dude had it 2 weeks ago, ironically he stopped raiding that same week because he was burnt out lol.

[Uglyduck]

I find it is becoming harder and harder to find guilds that play for only 10 or so hours a week and full clear mythic this expansion. I am starting to think that I may have taken it for granted...

Is anyone else finding this problem? It isn't that mythic raiding guilds have disappeared it just seem that the time requirements with AP grinding have more or less weeded out everyone but the most hardcore of the hardcore.

Check out <Heroes Always Get Laid> on Zul'jin Horde. They only raid mythic 2 days a week. Most of the players are constantly on, but they don't expect everyone to be as dedicated. It was founded by myself and some good friends. I no longer do mythic progression due to my personal life being a bit too busy, but there's still plenty of options out there.