Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Berengil]

When beloved superheroes are made diverse for the sake of diversity, and not for legitimate plot reasons, it does leave a pretty sour taste.

Well said.

How about that, another mod for me to follow.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Right, but if it doesn't sell, then it doesn't sell and it makes particularly no sense when you've got hit movies featuring live action versions of classic superheroes like Captain America (Steve Rogers), Thor (Odinson) and the Hulk (Bruce Banner) to instead offer those who might want to read more bunch of characters that don't look and behave like the ones gaining mass appeal in the other medium. Comics used to assume aspects of their TV/Movie/Radio counterparts... not seek to offer something so radically different. It's almost like they're doing this out of spite.

Fem Thor atleast was in the top 10 for bough jaunary and February when it comes to marvel comic sales so if say it's selling pretty well. As far as the movies go the movies should try to be like the comics not the other way around. I don't really care how well the movies are selling I don't think they should effect the comics they were based on.

[cyberglum]

Thor Odinson was turned into a woman years ago by Alex Ross when he designed Earth X. I don't recall any backlash against him for doing so.

The Mighty Thor comic is currently headlined by Jane Foster (an existing character) who is the current wielder of Mjolnir where a substantial amount of Thor Odinson's power derives from. She does use the moniker of Thor simply because she does literally have the power of Thor. An important thing to remember about Thor is that his power is conferable. There's no reason why not to have different people with the power.

The same goes for other heroes. 13 different Captain America's and 8 different Captain Marvel's come to mind. Some of those characters work, some don't.

I think you missed Heladys main point and taken him a bit too literally about Thor.

Diversity isn't the issue, its how savagely they pushed the agenda. Marvel made such sweeping changes in its name right across the board with their core characters in too short a period of time.

Oct 2014 - Thor - Deemed "unworthy" and the mantle taken-up by a woman.

Apr 2015 - Ice Man - Gay.

Oct 2015 - Captain America - replaced by Sam Wilson (Falcon)...basically because he was black.

May 2016 - Iron Man - (this is the worst imho) Killed (well, at least dis-embodied) and replaced by a black 15 year old genius girl who'd been specifically created too replace him.

Sep 2016 - Hulk - Assassinated by fucking Hawkeye for the most stupid plot reason and replaced by an asian teenage boy.

etc etc...alll the way down to Moonboy being replaced with Moongirl...fucking seriously!

All of the above examples (and that's just a few) took place over a 2 year period. 1 or 2 major changes like these have always taken place but nothing as systemic and fucking obvious has been done before in 50-60 years of Marvel history. To completely dismiss that this alienated a lot of long time buyers is very short-sighted.

Also, I took the time to read through that Atlantic article and while it makes some good points, some of which are almost word-for-word stuff I've spouted over in the Media forums about Marvel and its publishing schedule, there are some painfully embarrassing points raised which flag it as liberal tosh in relation to its dismissal of Diversity being an issue for Marvel.

"Is there really any more harm in publishing a comic where Captain America has a romantic cup of coffee with his boyfriend Bucky than one where he’s a Nazi?"


Jeez..

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well said.

How about that, another mod for me to follow.

It's only well said in case of marvel if you ignore the comics as almost none of theses things happen just for the sake of disvursity.

[cyberglum]

Fem Thor atleast was in the top 10 for bough jaunary and February when it comes to marvel comic sales so if say it's selling pretty well. As far as the movies go the movies should try to be like the comics not the other way around. I don't really care how well the movies are selling I don't think they should effect the comics they were based on.

I called you out on this before pie,

I think you're grasping here in trying to justify your original point which was that the Thor books "were top selling in both January and February". A pretty sweeping statement which you've narrowed (conveniently) down to just Marvels sales because, y'know, its easier to prove a point by ignoring the fact a lot of readers are actually enjoying DC's non-political agenda in just putting out fun comics rather than Marvels current approach.

January - Unworthy Thor is Marvels 9th best-selling book, Mighty is #13th.

February - Unworthy Thor is Marvels 7th best-selling book, Mighty is #12th.

To me, that shows that readers want to read about the original, male version of Thor more than they want to read about the female version, which is actually at odds with your original point.

Mighty was never in the top 10 for Jan/Feb, it was Unworthy...you know, the one with the (original) guy in it...?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

When beloved superheroes are made diverse for the sake of diversity, and not for legitimate plot reasons, it does leave a pretty sour taste.

I'm not sure what "legitimate plot reasons" means.

Is Steve Rogers handing off the mantle of Captain America to his best friend and partner not a legitimate plot reason? How about when Steve was "killed" a few years earlier and his other best friend and former partner took over the mantle? How about how in both cases Steve later came back and resumed the identity of Captain America (this time sharing the role with Sam Wilson)?

[RobertoCarlos]

I hope we can move past this diversity nonsense and just hire the right person for the job regardless of creed or race

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I called you out on this before pie,



Mighty was never in the top 10 for Jan/Feb, it was Unworthy...you know, the one with the (original) guy in it...?

http://www.cbr.com/no-diversity-didn...s-comic-sales/

In February 2017, Marvel published only two ongoing superhero series that sold above 40,000 single issues: “The Amazing Spider-Man” (61,953) and “The Mighty Thor” (40,175). The predecessors of both series were among Marvel’s top sellers in 2015, with their last pre-“Secret Wars” issues selling 88,338 and 86,222 copies, respectively.

[I Push Buttons]

I hope we can move past this diversity nonsense and just hire the right person for the job regardless of creed or race

That's sexist, racist, homophobic, Islamophobic, etc.

How bigoted of you.

/s

[cyberglum]

I'm not sure what "legitimate plot reasons" means.

Is Steve Rogers handing off the mantle of Captain America to his best friend and partner not a legitimate plot reason? How about when Steve was "killed" a few years earlier and his other best friend and former partner took over the mantle? How about how in both cases Steve later came back and resumed the identity of Captain America (this time sharing the role with Sam Wilson)?

Well, Riri Williams was created specifically to replace Tony Stark as a character by Bendis and the editors in their efforts to diversify their core books. That's the "not legitimate plot reasons" bit you're not understanding.

[Azadina]

Well, Riri Williams was created specifically to replace Tony Stark as a character by Bendis and the editors in their efforts to diversify their core books. That's the "not legitimate plot reasons" bit you're not understanding.

If Ironman was killed off, then here's a question: why does replacement have to be white male also?

Is there some legitimate reason why, instead of replacement being able to be practically anything?

[cyberglum]

http://www.cbr.com/no-diversity-didn...s-comic-sales/

Diamond distributors disagrees:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-01.html

I'm more inclined to trust the distributor than a columnist with an agenda.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think you missed Heladys main point and taken him a bit too literally about Thor.

Diversity isn't the issue, its how savagely they pushed the agenda. Marvel made such sweeping changes in its name right across the board with their core characters in too short a period of time.

Oct 2014 - Thor - Deemed "unworthy" and the mantle taken-up by a woman.

Apr 2015 - Ice Man - Gay.

Oct 2015 - Captain America - replaced by Sam Wilson (Falcon)...basically because he was black.

May 2016 - Iron Man - (this is the worst imho) Killed (well, at least dis-embodied) and replaced by a black 15 year old genius girl who'd been specifically created too replace him.

Sep 2016 - Hulk - Assassinated by fucking Hawkeye for the most stupid plot reason and replaced by an asian teenage boy.

etc etc...alll the way down to Moonboy being replaced with Moongirl...fucking seriously!

All of the above examples (and that's just a few) took place over a 2 year period. 1 or 2 major changes like these have always taken place but nothing as systemic and fucking obvious has been done before in 50-60 years of Marvel history. To completely dismiss that this alienated a lot of long time buyers is very short-sighted.

Also, I took the time to read through that Atlantic article and while it makes some good points, some of which are almost word-for-word stuff I've spouted over in the Media forums about Marvel and its publishing schedule, there are some painfully embarrassing points raised which flag it as liberal tosh in relation to its dismissal of Diversity being an issue for Marvel.

"Is there really any more harm in publishing a comic where Captain America has a romantic cup of coffee with his boyfriend Bucky than one where he’s a Nazi?"


Jeez..

Thing with them doing it over 2 two years is that seem to be setting up story's a lot of time in advance. Fem Thor was set up in the god butcher arch, Steve losing his serum was prosbbly to set up the hydra arch even then and it makes sense to get a new cap while he was de powers as they pretty much always replaces him when he dies or what ever, the only arch I can say I have a problem with is cho becoming the hulk as I've never liked cho and they dropped the doc green arch which I liked a lot.

[Ivanstone]

I think you missed Heladys main point and taken him a bit too literally about Thor.

Oct 2014 - Thor - Deemed "unworthy" and the mantle taken-up by a woman.
Your point? Someone had to pick up the Hammer.
Apr 2015 - Ice Man - Gay.
Admittedly a little bit out of nowhere. I was talking with another customer and we both figured it would be Beast before it was revealed to be Iceman.
Oct 2015 - Captain America - replaced by Sam Wilson (Falcon)...basically because he was black.
Replaced by his best friend (who happens to be black). The other best friend (the white one) got to go first though.
May 2016 - Iron Man - (this is the worst imho) Killed (well, at least dis-embodied) and replaced by a black 15 year old genius girl who'd been specifically created too replace him.
Got replaced by some white European dude actually. Who may or may not be trying to be the good guy.
Sep 2016 - Hulk - Assassinated by fucking Hawkeye for the most stupid plot reason and replaced by an asian teenage boy.
Noted side kick of the Hulk gets powers. Before the Hulk was actually killed. The internet explodes.

[cyberglum]

If Ironman was killed off, then here's a question: why does replacement have to be white male also?

Is there some legitimate reason why, instead of replacement being able to be practically anything?

Well, hes been killed of specifically to be replaced by a black teenage female.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Well, Riri Williams was created specifically to replace Tony Stark as a character by Bendis and the editors in their efforts to diversify their core books. That's the "not legitimate plot reasons" bit you're not understanding.

"Make new characters that are Diverse instead of changing old characters", They cry. Then, When Marvel makes a new diverse character they say "No...not like THAT!"

[Sunseeker]

Well, Riri Williams was created specifically to replace Tony Stark as a character by Bendis and the editors in their efforts to diversify their core books. That's the "not legitimate plot reasons" bit you're not understanding.

But editors do this all the time and they've been doing it for decades. They replace a big-name character with a new one that has similar, but different appeal and eventually the character peters out (no Park pun intended) and they go back to the original character. The death of Gwen Stacy was all on some editor's opinion. One More Day which absolutely destroyed a lot of standing Spider-lore was completely based on some editor's opinion with no plot basis at all.

I'll repeat what I said when this thread started and what I say every time this happens: The people bitching by-and-large don't read comics and have ZERO understanding about the medium and its history.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Well, hes been killed of specifically to be replaced by a black teenage female.

a) He wasn't killed off.
b) He's also been "replaced" by Victor Von Doom.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I called you out on this before pie,



Mighty was never in the top 10 for Jan/Feb, it was Unworthy...you know, the one with the (original) guy in it...?

You might be right I didn't acually go though the links you posted last time and am goin off rembered numbers which might be wrong. So my bad on if I am but point still stands that it's up there selling we'll.

[Ivanstone]

Diamond distributors disagrees:

http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/2017-01.html

I'm more inclined to trust the distributor than a columnist with an agenda.

The sales figures show that Marvel has the highest market and dollar share.

It also shows that amongst Marvels regular comics:
1 - Amazing Spider-man. Shocking. Nothing will ever knock Spider-man from his perch.
2 - Venom. It is new and shiny.
3 - Spider-man. OGAWD SJW ALERT!
4 - Mighty Thor. Yuck. Girls.