Marvel VP of Sales blames diversity for falling comic book sales

[Cheze]

as was pointed out earlier in the thread, a lot of the books regularly criticized on 'diversity' grounds have actually sold really well (Mighty Thor, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Gwen, Ultimate Spider-Man.)

Marvel's biggest problem lately (imo) is that they've been super focused on short (<12 issue) title runs with expensive #1s. That works okay for a while, but when it's every book for a couple years people start to disengage or feel like they can't keep up. It's kinda the same issue they had with limited run covers in the 90s.

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The 80's and 90's you say...when there was a Black Iron Man, A Black Female Captain Marvel, Eric Masterson was Thor, Spider-Man was replaced by his own Clone only to reclaim the mantle later, Steve Rogers was replaced as Captain America only to reclaim the mantle later, and they introduced a future timeline with New Versions of the same "Characters".

Yeah. Totally different from Today.

haha seriously

it always makes me giggle when these dudes who claim to have been 'reading comics forever' are somehow surprised at a character getting reinvented, gender-swapped, etc. "ALL-NEW XYZ" has been happening for the whole history of the medium

[elaina]

The independent link doesn't actually mention it, but the statement was made at a retailer summit. As i wasn't there I cannot say for sure but I would assume hes made the statement after he'd been talking to retailers. But hey! What do they know?

Just seems like an odd excuse for what is more than likely a dying media form. It's possible that it may not be helping things or it is not as popular as they want it to be, but to say it is a critical/driving factor seems far fetched and overly politicized (mentioned & overblown specifically to speak ill of promoting diversity in geek culture).

[Kallisto]

haha seriously

it always makes me giggle when these dudes who claim to have been 'reading comics forever' are somehow surprised at a character getting reinvented, gender-swapped, etc. "ALL-NEW XYZ" has been happening for the whole history of the medium

Honestly I wonder what would happen if John Stewart who some consider the best Green Lantern were to debut today. Those who are always bitching about "diversity" (Aka why isn't it always standard white male getting everything) would have a field day.

[Cheze]

it's fun to imagine how twitter might have reacted to this in that notable era of political correct-itude, 1983

[globenstine]

sjw pandering, plus making steve rogers pure evil isnt helping. sjw pandering never goes well. just look at what happened with Bioware after the Mass effect Andromeda fiasco. EA had to swoop in and shit can over half of the dev team and put the entire project on hold because the sjw virus got out of hand.

[Daethz]

Well thanks to them changing iron man into a black teenage girl among the other things theyve been doing, im done with them, their racist anti-white anti-male pandering has ruined that entire industry for me.
Tony stark is the only iron man, there will never be any more iron mans or iron womans, anything based on iron man that is not tony stark is absolute trash and should be boycotted.

[Maneo]

Up until about 4 years ago I worked at a comic store part time for fun and to get the discount.

The shop was just outside of a military base so it was in a truly diverse location. That being said I could count on one hand the number of females that would walk through the door and leave w/a comic in hand. The same could be said in regards to Black and Hispanic.

The majority of comics were sold to Caucasian males between 16-35 (guess). Asian folks purchased a fair amount to but not typically from the DC or Marvel they would tend to purchase manga.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

"Thor" isn't a job title, neither is "Iron Man".

Sure it is. All Superhero Identities are, in essence, Job Titles. Only Tony Stark can be Tony Stark...but anyone can be Iron Man

Multiple people have been Iron Man and Thor. Same goes for Batman, Captain America, Spider-Man, and The Flash.

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Well thanks to them changing iron man into a black teenage girl among the other things theyve been doing, im done with them, their racist anti-white anti-male pandering has ruined that entire industry for me.
Tony stark is the only iron man, there will never be any more iron mans or iron womans, anything based on iron man that is not tony stark is absolute trash and should be boycotted.

So War Machine is "Absolute Trash"?

[Mormolyce]

Pssst... not all of them. Today they all are.

What do you mean? There's still Frank Miller. Kek.

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"Thor" isn't a job title, neither is "Iron Man".

If "Chick-Thor" and "Metal Lady" went by different names there'd be no problem at all.

Bzzzzt.

[Racthoh]

Well no shit Einstein. No one wants a female Thor, nor a black teeny female Iron Man.

disagree. iron man continues to be awesome. can't comment on female thor but it sounds more interesting than regular thor.

[Mormolyce]

sjw pandering, plus making steve rogers pure evil isnt helping.

Isn't that anti-SJW pandering?

Kek.

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disagree. iron man continues to be awesome. can't comment on female thor but it sounds more interesting than regular thor.

I mean, we're all acting like Thor is a high bar to reach :P

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Yeah Clone saga definitely didn't work out but there was some other 90's changes that did.

Isn't that the same thing that's happening here?

[Deleted]

can't comment on female thor but it sounds more interesting than regular thor.

Can somady who actually read the comic comment? Do fem-Thor strugel to be worthy? Or they ignore that part for fem-Thor.

[Deleted]

The problem is they are effectively shooting themselves in the foot by destroying some of their most iconic teams. Although it is a sound strategy on paper they seem to be doing more damage to themselves than anything else.

Because Disney and Fox will bleed out money and Disney can afford to use such tactics, seeing how they have billions to spare.

What do you mean? There's still Frank Miller. Kek.

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Bzzzzt.

That image actually proves our point. You get the power of Thor, not become Thor as in the person Thor.

If you say that someone has the strength of a bear, it doesn't mean they become a bear every time they lift a couch.

[urasim]

I prefer reading Manga.
At least this way the author is usually the writer and the artist so it's consistent. If characters die they usually stay dead.

There are sooooooo many instances in manga where that's just straight up false statement. Out of all the heroes in Naruto, only a handful die. Many come back from the dead. So do the villains. Bleach does the same shit. Dragon ball is the name of a fucking wish making machine that brings people back to life. I don't read manga anymore, because I don't have the time, but you can't sit there and tell me that they don't have some of the same flaws comics have.

[Mormolyce]

That image actually proves our point. You get the power of Thor, not become Thor as in the person Thor.

That is literally Donald Blake becoming Thor.

[Shinra1]

Who reads comic books?

[Adam Jensen]

If they wanted diversity so bad they should have made new characters and also not made those characters defined by their race or sexual orientation.

And we have a winner. Diversity is fine and all, but make new characters rather than forcing these changes on the old.

[Shadowferal]

And we have a winner. Diversity is fine and all, but make new characters rather than forcing these changes on the old.

When Luke Cage was a new character...
When Shang-Chi was a new character...
When Ms. Marvel was a new character...
When Falcon was a new character...

All had good writers, good editors....and the timing was spot on.
When Marvel started sliding downhill they lost (or fired) their best people, and they lost their fanbase of which there were far more then than there was today. And when that older fanbase looks at what they done recently, as compared to what was...Well, as one of those older fans I see no reason to return. Comic books used to be fun...they don't look that way now.

[Ivanstone]

I'm not saying that manga is perfect. I am simply saying it's better in my opinion as it has less of the flaws that comics typically have. writers at DC and marvel often times retcon shit because they've written themselves into a corner.

DC and Marvel's problem is they are often just trying to maintain a brand so they end up with a soap opera. You can actually make decent stuff within that confines but its still a problem. They also need different ways to give their creative teams a time-out to try other things. DC has Vertigo but that only sort of works. Marvel has Icon but at this point it only exists to keep Bendis happy. Most of the good people have gravitated towards Image for a reason.

Manga's biggest problem is that it goes forward at 16 pages a week which results in a lot of filler. Sure, its cool you'll more than likely have a concrete ending someday but it may take an unnecessary amount of time getting there. I've been a fan for Rumiko Takahashi for decades now but I'm pretty sure Inu Yasha didn't need to run 55 volumes.

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When Luke Cage was a new character...
When Shang-Chi was a new character...
When Ms. Marvel was a new character...
When Falcon was a new character...

Luke Cage took decades to catch on.
Shang Chi who? Some guy who doesn't have his own comic.
Ms Marvel is a cheesy rip off of Captain Marr-vell.
Falcon is cool. He shows his coolness by being Captain America. Although helping out your friend and your country is a big no-no for some.

They're not the innovators you think they were. Ms Marvel in particular got a leg up by being a gender-changed version of a male character.

[Shadowferal]

Luke Cage took decades to catch on. Shang Chi who? Some guy who doesn't have his own comic. Ms Marvel is a cheesy rip off of Captain Marr-vell. Falcon is cool. He shows his coolness by being Captain America. Although helping out your friend and your country is a big no-no for some. They're not the innovators you think they were. Ms Marvel in particular got a leg up by being a gender-changed version of a male character.

And this is why the older fanbase wants nothing to do with the new...
clueless....They were all original...just as every character you already know. Marvel took risks in creating them. (And those you dismiss had their own comic books for years)
The "anchors" were created in the 60s. (Not counting Cap, Namor or the original Human Torch, or any character from the Golden Age) Then Marvel got even more creative in the 70s...and they went to the wall with just about everything we know today. They blame diversity when they should be blaming the writing and the decisions at the top that refuses to invest in originality. (and perhaps more so in consistency) What do they have today that's original? "How many versions of a character can we create this years?"
How about another crisis event?
Or my favorite out of the ridiculous; Let's destroy it all...again and again, and rewrite the same characters differently and see if that sticks?"
In every way they force you to spend money at every stage to get a full story....

And there's the utter stupidity of trying to keep all of the media together...comic-books, television, and movies. And since movies are the biggest and quickest money makers, those call the shots. Which has led to some the dumbest decisions in comics ever...