Who are Muslim extremists trying to convince?

[Blobfish]

They are so wrapped up in the Quran & their faith that some of them believe every verse and try to act it out.

It would be similar if Christians acted out & where serious about every verse of the Old Testament of the Bible... An eye for an eye etc.

Quran verses that mention killing infidels:

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

[Farrarie]

ISIS is the antichrist pawn to get conflict between religion
and get other people to hate religion
but in the end Muslims Christians and maybe even Jews but I don't think they believe that Jesus peace be upon him will return like Muslims and Christians
but Ibrahim Faith will unite until Jesus return

[Revi]

Other muslims, surely?

[procne]

potential goals:

1. Make western countries not want to get themselves involved in the middle east.
2. Make western societies hate muslims, which makes it harder for muslims from middle east to escape to western countries. Also, muslims who are already in western countries become rejected and prosecuted by the societies they live in, which in turn makes it easier to "radicalize" them.
3. Right side populists gain more votes and permission to isolate their country and lead it to dictatorship.

[Aeula]

Muslims. And it's working, they're not short on recruits.

[Kiri]

Which is a bit weird in my opinion. 72 virgins? Good god, give me 72 women who know what the fuck they are doing.

Well you would have to spend eternity with them, so I guess they could learn?

[Kaleredar]

Attempting to radicalize their own population by killing dissenters and converting others while simultaneously driving out western influences in order to establish a caliphate-like government.

[Pannonian]

The better question is:

What do they hate most?

Unbelievers? Christians?

No!

Muslims! Muslims that don't comply with their view of how the world should be. They drive on a narrative that the West is the arch nemesis of the Muslims. So the biggest threat to them is Muslims + Christians (or any other denomination) living peaceful together.

Thats where terror comes in. Killing unbelievers is just a nice bonus, what the actual goal is: Stir up the general western population, to make harsher laws against muslims and also change the public opinion to see Muslims as a threat. This works quite well, and a lot of Muslims that are integrated in the West get the feeling that they aren't welcome anymore. Now a 45 year old Muslim wont suddenly become a terrorist, thats not how it works. But his 17 year old son, who consumes media and reads and listens to all this stories, will get the impression that the West is his enemy, so he will be open to fantasy stories of 40 virgins etc.

And he will commit some crime - Rinse and repeat.

So every time anyone is outraged at terrorism and Muslims, they are the most important helpers of the terrorists, because their whole strategy wouldn't work otherwise.

[callipygoustp]

Well you would have to spend eternity with them, so I guess they could learn?

Fair point. That could certainly be fun.

[Kuntantee]

I doubt they want to convince people.

[looorg]

Women are like fine pastries.. would you want to lick a pie that's had another mans dick in it? Better off blowing yourself up.

Which brings the questions -- why would you want to lick a pie that you previously had your own dick in?

[Majestic12]

These people have lived in misery since 2001 and are the product of their environment.

They are trying to convince muslims all over the world that their cause is righteous and just. These people also feel like they have nothing to lose(they've already lost it). It's the most dangerous kind of person to exist.

The Right is helping ISIS by pushing the same agenda as them, that Islam is somehow incompatible with the West.

ISIS and the exteeme Right are allies, and the Right is the West's most influential people that help ISIS.

[Frenegade42]

It surely can't be the victims or their families. And what are they trying to convince us of? What is the point in spreading their [insert god here] by murdering people? Has anyone actually tried to understand their logic or is it completely nonsensical?

Aside from the obvious barbarism I don't think I've ever read anything that touches on the mentality of these people. I know religion is brainwash and these people are afflicted at a young age but what is the end game? Are they really told they get 40 virgins if they suicide bomb or what?

It seems to me that they have no issues corrupting the natives so I don't think that's it.

Essentially the two main players are political Islamist and the Fundamentalist Apocalyptic Islamists.

Political Islamists are best described as Al Qaeda or the Taliban. They typically have real-world/real-life political goals and their level of religious devotion varies depending on how cynical you want to be, ranging from honest religious fanaticism through to jaded old men using the young, the brainwashed, the coerced and the poor as tools. Al Qaeda essentially wants the expulsion of all non Muslims from the middle east, and the establishment of one Islamic State over the entire area. The goal of their terrorism is to make the cost of resistance against that goal seem too high, either through body count or public opinion. This includes terrorising abroad in the West and goading Western armies into committing in the region. They don't actually expect to destroy the armies, just stay the course and wear down their resolve.

Now the Fundamentalist Apocalyptic Islamists are best described as ISIS. ISIS sees the establish of the Islamic State in the Middle East only as a checkbox on their list of criteria to bring about the end of the world (and the start of the Islamic paradise). They know they have to take and hold territory and govern people to still be in the game as a Caliphate. They know their Caliphate will see great victories, they know also their Caliphate will then take great losses, and then at the end when they are nearing final defeat at the hands of Rome (they've decided the U.S and its allies are Rome), Jesus will fly down with a flaming sword, slay the leader of Rome, end this bad world and create the muslim paradise, with free rezzes all around.

This is why the Islamic State commits atrocities to provoke, because of the very real fear the West is just going to starve them out, and bomb and drone them from a distance without engaging them directly to fulfill the criteria of their prophecies.

It also goes to expose the fallacy of "this is what the Terrorist want". In the case of ISIS, "giving them what they want" by doubling down and exterminating them directly is only a bad move if you believe this is going to fulfill their attunement quest, summon Jesus and end the world. When in reality, its just going to end in a lot of dead Islamic Fundamentalists.

[Aquinan]

Religion is one of the greatest cons and sources of misery in the world (excluding Buddhism I suppose) hopefully society can evolve away from it then we won't have the problem of religious extremism.

[Zomis]

It surely can't be the victims or their families. And what are they trying to convince us of? What is the point in spreading their [insert god here] by murdering people? Has anyone actually tried to understand their logic or is it completely nonsensical?

Aside from the obvious barbarism I don't think I've ever read anything that touches on the mentality of these people. I know religion is brainwash and these people are afflicted at a young age but what is the end game? Are they really told they get 40 virgins if they suicide bomb or what?

It seems to me that they have no issues corrupting the natives so I don't think that's it.

Their endgame is to control people with fear, because it works in barbaric areas of the world. They are too dumb to realize the more terror they spread the more united we become! You can't expect bunch of jackasses giving each other handies in a cave has any real end game!

[Teaon]

Religion is one of the greatest cons and sources of misery in the world (excluding Buddhism I suppose) hopefully society can evolve away from it then we won't have the problem of religious extremism.

not really, bad people will have something else.

i mean, the two worst thing that happened in the world, WW1 WW2, was not a religious reason or motivation.

[Darkeon]

Trying to convince the good ol' deity to give them several virgins after they do their religious deed.

[Deleted]

The same as like right wing extremists on this forum. Weak minded people full of hatred.

Both islamists and alt rights want:

- to punish gay and transsexual people
- show the west and democracy as "weak"
- make females their property
- xenophobia
- violence against their opponents

In fact, a nationalist extremist and a islamist share the same mindset. And the bigger danger for america currently comes from nationalist extremists.

What does nationalism have to do with; gay and transsexual people,democracy, women rights and violence?

A bigger question is the subjective nature of extremism. One's extreme conservative religious person is anothers' devout religious person. Muddling these waters further by calling any opinion you disagree with an extreme is detrimental to both the danger of terrorism and the adjective extreme on its own.

tl;d;r rym is polarising society further by classifying anyone that disagrees with him as

weak minded people full of hatred

[mvaliz]

Right now they're trying to radicalize all muslims by getting non-muslims to hate all muslims (not just the bad ones) and get them to act against them.

Which is why comedian Jim Jeffres said: if you put in the muslim ban, then ISIS wins - cuz how quickly do you think a muslim, born in this country, would radicalize when they see their country turn against them?

[Kryos]

They want to create chaos, they want to put the countries they attack in a state of anarchy. Then they can invade and kill everyone with little resistance. Yes, completely crazy but that's what they told reporters. Their end goal is to have a global caliphate and to kill all infidels.

The german journalist Todenhoefer who was able to get into an ISIS group for interview asked the fighter about their treatment of other religions, especially Shia Muslims.

"So you also want to come to Europe?" Todenhoefer asked him.
"No, we will conquer Europe one day," the man said. "It is not a question of if we will conquer Europe, just a matter of when that will happen. But it is certain ... For us, there is no such thing as borders. There are only front lines.
"Our expansion will be perpetual ... And the Europeans need to know that when we come, it will not be in a nice way. It will be with our weapons. And those who do not convert to Islam or pay the Islamic tax will be killed."

"What about the 150 million Shia, what if they refuse to convert?" Todenhoefer asked.
"150 million, 200 million or 500 million, it does not matter to us," the fighter answered. "We will kill them all."