Players should stop doing LFR if they don't like it.

[Sansnom]

Mythic+ will never be queueable, and quite frankly if you can't muster up the social skills to play a dungeon with four other people without a crippling dependency on game systems that do the work for you, maybe an MMO isn't the right choice of game.

Given the type of post people make in this forums against others who simply play the differently, the various insults, labelling, I would say almost everyone has some social skills problem.

But to answer your question, is it really a social skill problem when one cannot meet the insanely high entry requirements? Sure they can form a group, they is not answering the original question, is it?

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Them reading skills, though. Note, I said, "chances are crazy low." It's not common, but it's also not as rare as you'd like to believe.

So, the "chances are crazy low", but at the same not as rares as I like to believe? Someone the two does not quite connect.

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Same story with PVP for some PVErs...

Not surprises. It has been "My way is the correct way" for some.

[pkm]

Oh hey a very original thread on mmo champion

Said no one ever

But complain about LFR? Nah. It's nice to have an environment where I can relax and unwind and go full retard after doing a mythic raid. It gets tedious.

[Aggrophobic]

Killed by a single tank? Or just using one tank supported by some of the raid?



Then there's still the other half playing the game and possibly enjoying themselves while doing so. Like I said, easy, but not a literal free loot run.

LFR serves exactly the purpose it's meant to: Letting low skill players, or players who just don't care about raiding, see the story.

Well, it's free loot for halft the raid.
Also, you don't need the best loot in the game to "see the story" yet it does drop from LFR.
As I said, WoD did LFR much better than Legion. There was no reason to do it unless you actually wanted to do it. Now you have to do it to maximize your chance to get the best gear.

[kamuimac]

Rofl it isn't called an addiction lololol, its called wanting to help your raid out the best you can by doing whatever you can outside of raiding.

no its called addiction you have more efficient ways to do so too

i have this usper hardcore friend who is not pretending that he isnt addicted at least - but in his case this "helping raid" means doin >4k mythic + dungeons .

if you think you "need to do lfr" to help them you should seek proffesional help or embrace your innner addict and stop pretending its blizzard fault

[thunterman]

Inspected a random Paladin last week in Dal cause I liked his xmog and wanted to know what it was. He was around 870 ilvl, never raided Mythic, Heroic or even Normal. Just LFR on that toon. That's cool, whatever floats your boat. In contrast, my guild is 9/10M 2-day a week (6 hours total). We have run HC/Norm every week trying to get our warrior a better Draught then the only one we have ever seen (a 890 one). RNG gods don't like us, but that's fine, we are still progressing. This Paladin in Dal? 925 LFR Draught with a socket. I don't mind that he doesn't raid like I do. I don't mind that he has luck on drops that we don't. I do mind when LFR loot can Titanforge better than any loot that drops in Mythic.

Got my Mythic Eli tier helm last Thursday. Rolled 905. Not better than my 915 with socket heroic tier. Sucks when they add RNG chances to your already RNG chance drops.

But that's the game right now.

This is 90% of the reason I quit Mythic raiding. The warfarged should be 5 ilvls, titanforged 10. no more. A TF heroic item should (IMO) be EQUAL, maybe even 5 lower to a normal Mythic drop. You should always get better loot at higher difficulties, that's a no-brainer, and right now, you can get better than mythic in a raid that's 3 pegs down in difficulty, it's ludicrous. I don't want LFR removed, it has it's place, but damn, the loot shouldn't even be able to beat Mythic loot RNG or not.

[AlmightyGerkin]

What are we discussing here?

Think this is just a rant thread about players hating LFR. No real discussion here.

[SirCowdog]

Well, it's free loot for halft the raid.
Also, you don't need the best loot in the game to "see the story" yet it does drop from LFR.
As I said, WoD did LFR much better than Legion. There was no reason to do it unless you actually wanted to do it. Now you have to do it to maximize your chance to get the best gear.

Wait...the "best" loot in the entire game drops in LFR? Are you referring to legendaries? Because those drop literally anywhere, and shouldn't be part of the discussion.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Let's not be delusional here, you can only enjoy LFR if you haven't tried anything better. It is a clusterfuck of ignored tactics, goofy loot pinatas, and tyrannical regime, since speaking up means getting kicked.
I can agree it's a necessary evil, it is widely popular, and ran often. But that doesn't mean it is an enjoyable experience, because it's not.

[Aggrophobic]

Wait...the "best" loot in the entire game drops in LFR? Are you referring to legendaries? Because those drop literally anywhere, and shouldn't be part of the discussion.

You can get 925 gear and legendaries from LFR, yes.

[Deadite]

I can agree it's a necessary evil, it is widely popular, and ran often. But that doesn't mean it is an enjoyable experience, because it's not.

For you. I know it is a shocking concept but different people like different things! *gasp*

[Jtbrig7390]

But that doesn't mean it is an enjoyable experience, because it's not.

I enjoy doing it, So I guess that just kills this then.

Shit its almost like different people, Like different things.

[SirCowdog]

You can get 925 gear from LFR, yes.

And do Titanforged items not drop in Mythic raids? Real question here, as I'm not a mythic raider.

Even if they do, I can see the problem. The amount of effort required to clear a Mythic raid is 100 times that of running a LFR. LFR should not be dropping gear which is better than even non-WF/TF Mythic gear. That's just silly.

[Hctaz]

Guess you don't remember cata then ... the "attempt" to go back to more Vanilla and TBC style play ... that ended well didn't it .... NOT, with half the games subscribers leaving because it was awful...

Almost had the game in a good state in WoD, your joking right... you have to be lol.

Also flying is not a negative point for the game, its been in the game since TBC and should not be removed and Its very rigid and poor thinking to just say "its not perfect, remove it" when it can be improved upon.
I personally like legion model as a balance, they made it nice to play without it with it it just adds to the fun, you don't need it as much as you used to but its a good thing to have.

But please take off the rose tinted nostalgia glasses.... you try and move the game back to Vanilla or TBC and it will kill the game no matter how much you think otherwise. Vanilla and TBC were great for there time but that's long gone.

I do remember Cata. The reason why the sub loss was there had nothing to do with them going back to more Vanilla and TBC playstyle because they didn't. Cata was the first step AWAY from that playstyle. Vanilla-Wrath was all one continuation of the same game. They made a few quality of life improvements that I can agree with. It started going downhill with LFD.

But seriously there are numerous reasons why Cata started bleeding subs and literally none of it has to do with their non-existent push towards a Vanilla and TBC experience. First and biggest thing was that Wrath was over. Warcraft 3 was over. The entirety of WoW up until Arthas' death was a continuation of the story of warcraft 3. Many people devoted their time and effort into seeing the story of their favorite RTS come to a conclusion. Afterwards many people just decided that 6 years was enough and they needed to stop playing the game.

Secondly, the change to the talent system. Every expansion had grown upon the older model. Add two more rows of talents and some additional stuff to the previous last tier of talents and make some new spells that improve QoL. Players had grown to expect new cool things to do and new talents to mess with. Instead they pruned the talent trees, gave us less "choice" which mattered to some people a lot, and sorta dumbed down the overall leveling experience by slowing the way your character progressed.

Third was the redesign of the world. People were excited that the world would finally allow flying in it since it was so huge and flight points were so long but a lot of players were really upset that they removed certain questlines and altered their favorite zones. I remember the outrage of Org's aesthetic being drastically changed that still continues to this day. I've even seen new players who didn't play Pre-Cata complaining that the new aesthetic to some of the zones really upsets them after watching one of those "Then and Now" videos on youtube.

Questing was boring as fuck. They allowed players to fly during questing which made everything a forgettable mess. There are a few reasons why people don't like questing in Vash'jir and one of them is because it's the "hardest" to quest in since mobs can "fly" around the zone with you. Why would you go there when you could go to Hyjal and simply bypass every single mob you don't want to fight? Questing in zones went from a journey that forced you to traverse hills, mountains, and valleys to a mindless pattern of fly up, fly down, kill mob, loot chest, loot item, repeat. This is why they think flying is bad for the game. I devolves the world into this repeated pattern.

Fourth, raids and cut content. Raiding was abysmal in Cata. The first tier was pretty good and offered something cool and unique in the form of a heroic only boss but there were too many issues. Blizzard decided that they wanted to try to cater to the casual crowd who enjoyed the smaller sized group of raiding that was 10 man. Previously, 10 man was seen as an inferior difficulty. They balanced it as such and the loot it provided was worse. In Cata they decided to try to make 10 and 25 man raiding guilds fight on equal footing which was a nightmare. Some bosses required stupid compositions that were nearly impossible to pull off in a 10 man setting but needed to be balanced equally. I remember Maloriak being a nightmare to do on 10 man because you most certainly needed three tanks to pull it off effectively. On 25 man you simply had a dps swap and it was easy. On ten man, you couldn't afford to lose 1/5 of your dps. You either needed a healer to tank and pray that your dps could stay alive or you needed to 2 tank it and pray your offtank could kite. It put off a lot of people because 10 man previously WAS a more casual experience. Not only that, but raid quality started to suffer as well. I'm not sure 100% why. Maybe they thought that having fewer, more memorable bosses is superior to more but forgettable ones.. but it wasn't. People saw Firelands had only 7 bosses and were pissed as fuck. This was the new big, epic raid? It was fucking tiny. And Dragon Soul continued this trend by only including 8 bosses. Now, they say that LFR fixed this issue but they would be lying to your face. Sure, all of MoP looked great and WoD was okay but what happened with Legion? EN had 7 bosses, NH has 10 by the grace of god, but now Tomb only has 8. We're back to the same small raids that Blizzard said was a problem only because LFR didn't exist yet. Well it exists and we're still getting shafted.

LFD. Oh boy did LFD have issues. See the ONE thing they did try to do which is something that many, many people asked for, was to make heroic dungeons hard again. Ghostcrawler advocated for it too and apparently the dev team agreed it would be fun. The problem wasn't that the dungeons were too hard. I know plenty of people who went in and did it with their guild and had a great time. I remember the first time I cleared Grim Batol heroic. It was intense as fuck and took nearly 2 hours to do. I didn't play end game in BC so the only experience I had with max level heroic dungeons was the AoE fest in Wrath. I thought this was significantly better than the previous expansion... but LFD randoms did not. These dungeons were so difficult for an uncoordinated group to accomplish that they should NOT have been a part of the LFD system but they put it in anyway. This killed off many people who were used to an easy clear with a random group. Then, when people were cancelling subs due to this failure, they nerfed them which then made people who WERE having fun want to quit. LFD ruined the Cataclysm dungeon experience for basically everybody. Heroic was designed to be done with your guild or a skilled and coordinated group.

There were also many changes that purposefully went against Vanilla and TBC. They removed weapon skills, pruned talent trees, had no attunements, allowed flying during leveling, cut class content, altered the entire old world, removed certain quest chains from the game (mainly class ones) altered a lot of old quest chains, etc.
Saying that Cata was their aim to bring the game back to Vanilla and BC is simply wrong. Cata was their attempt at making a WoW 2 without cutting the playerbase in half or putting off players who didn't want to leave their old characters behind. People didn't like it.

There is no nostalgia glasses. There are plenty of people who leave retail to go play on BC or Vanilla servers. Obviously there is appeal there for some reason despite the numerous flaws that that time had. Nobody wants weapon skills or to spam trade chat for groups again. People want to be out in the world while also looking for a group. That's why many private servers introduce a global chat. But if BC removed weapon skills, awful and pointless grinds, and added in the improved LFG system that we have now in Legion, it would be a pretty fun time.

[stomination]

I am trying to find the reason this thread was made, but I can't find it.

Because the OP needs a current lfr thread so he can talk about how he dislikes organized groups.

[Hctaz]

I can't speak for others but as for me, Ya for the most part I am. I'm not ok with how long they want to release all of LFR and that's why I just unsub until its open.

I wish they wouldn't release LFR until after the new raid opened. EN shouldn't have opened until ToV, ToV until NH, NH until Tomb. Easy solution.

[Aggrophobic]

And do Titanforged items not drop in Mythic raids? Real question here, as I'm not a mythic raider.

Even if they do, I can see the problem. The amount of effort required to clear a Mythic raid is 100 times that of running a LFR. LFR should not be dropping gear which is better than even non-WF/TF Mythic gear. That's just silly.

Of course it does drop in mythic as well but a competative raider will feel forced to do LFR just for the chance of getting an upgrade befor the next progress raid.
It's not really a fun system and it gets even worse when you get your mythic item only to DE it becuase you got better from LFR/normal/HC last week.
It's a poor system, imo.

Thats only one of the issues with LFR atm though.

[Typhoria]

Would be nice if they would go ahead and release a permanent Defiled Augment rune from rep or something similar to the Empowered Augment Rune. LFR is the only reliable source to get them, can't count on either class hall missions or wq/caches to have them.

[SirCowdog]

Of course it does drop in mythic as well but a competative raider will feel forced to do LFR just for the chance of getting an upgrade befor the next progress raid.
It's not really a fun system and it gets even worse when you get your mythic item only to DE it becuase you got better from LFR/normal/HC last week.
It's a poor system, imo.

Thats only one of the issues with LFR atm though.

That sounds like less of a problem specific to LFR, and more of a problem of WoW's reward system being massively inconsistent when compared to effort required.

[primalmatter]

That sounds like less of a problem specific to LFR, and more of a problem of WoW's reward system being massively inconsistent when compared to effort required.

This is my current issue. Lfr itself seems a rather mute point when daily quests give bis.

[judgementofantonidas]

Nothing in this game is required, Its a video game its not curing cancer and there is no gun to your head. If u don't like something don't do it.


Also by doing it you keep it relevant and blizzard will keep it around because its getting used.


(Personally I enjoy LFR)

still wearing titanforged tier helmet. so as long as shit like that can happen there is more or less a smoking gun.