G7 communique acknowledges split with U.S. on climate

[Noradin]

The superior route would have been what the French did, which is have a competition for a simple, safe winning design facilitate by the government, and then have competitive bidding for construction of that winning design.

There is a problem with this approach: The design they chose and made the most competitive by promoting it with their concentrated economic power wasn't the save option, but the cheap one, the one that has the danger of a meltdown. It damaged the competitiveness of this energy source (by damaging its public image) in the long run, and subsequently hindered funding for the technologies that would let us get rid of the dangerous waste instead of just burying for a time.

[Kontinuum]

U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says President Trump is weighing the pros and cons of the Paris climate deal and is 'wide open' on whether the U.S. will stay in the agreement.
http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/05...eoId=371767371

[Slant]

The funniest bit about all of this is how Trump returns home claiming everything is peachy and swell while the European leaders think it was a devastating meeting. The disconnect from reality is real, Mr. Trump. :P

[alexw]

U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says President Trump is weighing the pros and cons of the Paris climate deal and is 'wide open' on whether the U.S. will stay in the agreement.
http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/05...eoId=371767371

Translation : We are busy telling Donald Trump how wise and great a leader he is and how a wise and great leader such as himself would make the decision to say in the Paris Accord. We are telling him this because its how we got him to reverse other utterly stupid decisions of his in the past, and hopefully after we've got him to change his mind this time I will be able to make something other than such a non-committal statement.

[Cyberowl]

He is so fucking embarrassing. Merkel and Prince Henry met with Obama to discuss all sorts of issues while Donnie was also over there. Its bad when they rather speak with our former head of state than the current one.

*giggles*

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...506945?lang=de

50 bucks on Trump backpaddeling on his climate change stance this week. No wonder he is so exhausted he can't even go by foot and needs a Wallmart cart to follow the G7 leaders, all this backpaddeling on every promise must be exhausting.

[Tyrianth]

You are missing a potential part of the equation

Trump probably expects the rest of the world to make up for the US not reducing emssions thus (in his book) hopefully sacrificing competitiveness while the us does not. It would be America First to the fullest.

The solution obviously is for the rest of the world to accept defeat and increase co2 emissions to match the us per capita. Call the bluff so to speak.

Until the rest of the world starts implementing tariffs or sanctions against US goods.

[Deleted]

Looks more like Europe was just left alone with fight they barely have any impact on anyway.

[Kiri]

Looks more like Europe was just left alone with fight they barely have any impact on anyway.

Yeah, sadly. It took decades to finally get enough people in this to potentially make a difference, then the US jumps ship first chance they get.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Yeah, sadly. It took decades to finally get enough people in this to potentially make a difference, then the US jumps ship first chance they get.

Yup. Because our people are so fucking stupid and elected Trump we along with the whole world get to deal with what it is like having an angry 4 year old run the worlds last super power.

[Xarkan]

Yup. Because our people are so fucking stupid and elected Trump we along with the whole world get to deal with what it is like having an angry 4 year old run the worlds last super power.

There were republican candidates who did not intend to back out of the Paris agreement?

[Kiri]

There were republican candidates who did not intend to back out of the Paris agreement?

There were republican candidates that would have seen it untenable to alienate the rest of the G7 over this. They would just have quietly not met the targets, or not gone to the full extent of it.

[Noradin]

Looks more like Europe was just left alone with fight they barely have any impact on anyway.

Actually, they did have quite an impact already: By creating a demand in renewable energy sources they made countries like China build factories that produce those at a price China itself now finds appealing. This will gain more and more momentum and save the world an enormous amount of pollution simply by shifting this developement forwards a few years.
It did cost a lot of money (mostly Germany citizen's money), but it did have quite the effect.

[alexw]

Actually, they did have quite an impact already: By creating a demand in renewable energy sources they made countries like China build factories that produce those at a price China itself now finds appealing. This will gain more and more momentum and save the world an enormous amount of pollution simply by shifting this developement forwards a few years.
It did cost a lot of money (mostly Germany citizen's money), but it did have quite the effect.

I heard about that. I can't remember it now but there was a special phrase they coined for it. In essence Germany made a huge stonking economic sacrifice to push the world over to a renewable based one. To jump the initial barrier so to speak. They were the first adopters and so took the majority of the economic hit while everyone else will get the lower cost renewables.

[Blade Wolf]

U.S. Defense Secretary James Mattis says President Trump is weighing the pros and cons of the Paris climate deal and is 'wide open' on whether the U.S. will stay in the agreement.
http://www.reuters.com/video/2017/05...eoId=371767371

At this point i believe we can call what people are doing, "Trumpsplaining".

[Slant]

Yup. Because our people are so fucking stupid and elected Trump we along with the whole world get to deal with what it is like having an angry 4 year old run the worlds last super power.

I used to say "Hey now, nothing happened that can't be fixed" on these occasions, trying to offer some support for you guys. But what with Merkel and the last meetings Trump had... it would be disingenious. I hope someone will reign him in, soon. He is damaging your country. This is like watching someone dismantle his own house. Without actually needing to, too. There is nothing to gain of his antics... It baffles me.

[Deleted]

Actually, they did have quite an impact already: By creating a demand in renewable energy sources they made countries like China build factories that produce those at a price China itself now finds appealing. This will gain more and more momentum and save the world an enormous amount of pollution simply by shifting this developement forwards a few years.
It did cost a lot of money (mostly Germany citizen's money), but it did have quite the effect.

If that's true, wouldn't it have been easier to fund such factories and/or create demand through funding solar/wind/whatever farms and similar directly? Without all this political mess.

[Nadiru]

I just don't understand climate change denial.

Even if you don't think it's a big problem I don't see why reducing pollution and supporting alternative energy isn't a good thing.

It's so baffling. Even if you aren't a scientist it should just logically flow that cutting down forests, dumping chemicals into the water, and emitting massive amounts of pollution into the atmosphere isn't a good thing.

Because alternative energy has pretty specific - and limited - applications until we develop two of the three following:

1) Inexpensive high-temperature superconducting wire.
2) Inexpensive, long-lasting battery technology.
3) Wireless, long-distance power transmission that is not harmful to life.

Right now, solar is really good at cutting out peak usage for electricity but without the ability to shuttle electricity around from place to place across the country from where it is generated to where it is consumed, or without the ability to store vast quantities of electricity for long periods of time, solar will remain in that extremely useful niche market. Wind has the same kind of problem without the periodicity which makes solar useful; sure, the wind blows at night, but without an ability to store or transport those joules somewhere, it's wasted effort. Also, the fans kill birds.

[Mormolyce]

I just don't understand climate change denial.

Even if you don't think it's a big problem I don't see why reducing pollution and supporting alternative energy isn't a good thing.

It's so baffling. Even if you aren't a scientist it should just logically flow that cutting down forests, dumping chemicals into the water, and emitting massive amounts of pollution into the atmosphere isn't a good thing.

Simple, you have shares in companies that would go down if we regulated fossil fuels and/or pollution.

And it becomes partisan dogma so the drones lap it up.

[Noradin]

If that's true, wouldn't it have been easier to fund such factories and/or create demand through funding solar/wind/whatever farms and similar directly? Without all this political mess.

Not without breaking a lot of treaties on Germany's part, and it wouldn't have been as effective either.
Despite what everyone might have to pretend in public due to politics: Having China and other developing nations build these factories is really the best outcomeand just giving them the money to build some would't have worked either. Instead Germany created demand, let China take over the production, then cut the extra money to be earned by private people getting new systems installed. This automatically reduced the growth of demand below projections leaving China with surplus due to their own massive subsidies and investments that strictly speaking break the WTO agreements, but since the money is already spent and the price is somewhat low enough already Chine won't just get rid of the surplus, not they use it to reduce their own pollution problem.
So in a way Germany tricked China into (illegally) subsidising renewable energy, then turned the tables on them thereby for once twarting their standard tactic to exploit free markets and punishing them by effectively having them fund cleaner energy sources for themselves--something they always refused to do in the past.
And the beautiful thing about it? German politicans got away with it without alienating China, without breaking these treaties themselves, and even without losing their electorate on the way.

- - - Updated - - -

Because alternative energy has pretty specific - and limited - applications until we develop two of the three following:

1) Inexpensive high-temperature superconducting wire.
2) Inexpensive, long-lasting battery technology.
3) Wireless, long-distance power transmission that is not harmful to life.

We are almost ther with #2, and that one is really the one we need most.
The next big step up for us will be the industrial production of graphene sheets.
Granted, we have been at it for decades, but it is beginning to look promising. Given all the potential applications we have prepared already for the moment this takes off the funding into this technology is really taking off now.

It has incredible properties.

A sheet of graphene is made up pf carbon, it is one layer of atoms thick yet strong enough that you could lie on it if it was used like a hammok.
It and the carbon nanotubes you can make from it could be used to literally build a tower to the moon.

It can be seen with the naked eye (despite being one atom layer thick), absorbing 2.5%* of all light passing though it (this is more than any other known material at this thickness), yet at the same time its conductivity is so great there is no material that can match it without the layer being less transparent. This makes the mass production of cheap organic solar cells possible.

The other thing about its conductivity? It is only along the sheets and out of their borders.
If you lay two sheets of it flat onto each other the resistance for electrons to pass from one to the other is enormeous, given how thin they are and how close together that makes it possible to build huge capacitors that take up almost no space.
Basically: Take two sheets of grapehen, roll them up side by side and you get the ideal battery and it won't even detoriate as much as the old ones, it will react faster to demand and its output will be more constant. And it will be light. This part has already been demonstrated.

So all we need is the industrial production of sheets of graphene, if we can do that the same way we do it with steel right now then we are set.

* don't quote me on this number I do not have time to look it up and it has been years

[Danner]

I just don't understand climate change denial.

Even if you don't think it's a big problem I don't see why reducing pollution and supporting alternative energy isn't a good thing.

It's so baffling. Even if you aren't a scientist it should just logically flow that cutting down forests, dumping chemicals into the water, and emitting massive amounts of pollution into the atmosphere isn't a good thing.

You and me both. Just have a look at China. This is a 2005 picture of Beijing on a rainy (smog washed away) and "sunny" (smog) day.



This is a 2009 picture of Chinese smog seen from space.



That smog ain't going away. It's blowing its way over the pacific. Sucks to be Korea and Japan.



The pacific is currently absorbing most of that smog. At the cost of turning the ocean acidic. But it cannot absorb it all. In a few years, it might suck to be the west coast of the US.

A bit of a shame that the pacific isn't smaller than it is. I expect the US would be up in arms against pollution had they gotten the chinese smog like japan and korea does. Give it a few years I guess?