Tinkers In Our Future?

[Thimagryn]

To be honest, they don't need to fit any expansion theme at all.

Worgen and Goblins had almost no footprint in Cataclysm outside of their starting zone lore. What did they really contribute to fighting Deathwing? Monks had very little to do with Garrosh's insane bid for power, and they didn't contribute any more than any other class when fighting the Sha or Mogu. Tinkers are just going to be another playable class if they get added. Their lore is most likely going to be tied to Kazan/Undermine, which is conveniently situated in the South Seas.

[Kiradyn]

They totally do, because they know what fans want and what sells. It's only a matter of possibilities whether it's feasible or not to go that route. An entire expansion pack around Pandarens is proof of how far they are willing to take their IP just for the sake of an April Fools joke that was never made canon.

The Tinker is the in that exact same boat.

I agree.

I personally don't believe that Mekkatorque riding around in a mech (and Gazlowe and Noggenfogger riding around in flame-throwing mechs) was put there without a larger purpose. Blizzard had to have known that the fanbase would highly desire something like that (especially Gnome and Goblin fans).

[SirCowdog]

To be honest, they don't need to fit any expansion theme at all.

Worgen and Goblins had almost no footprint in Cataclysm outside of their starting zone lore. What did they really contribute to fighting Deathwing? Monks had very little to do with Garrosh's insane bid for power, and they didn't contribute any more than any other class when fighting the Sha or Mogu. Tinkers are just going to be another playable class if they get added. Their lore is most likely going to be tied to Kazan/Undermine, which is conveniently situated in the South Seas.

Deathknights had virtually the entire expansion centered around the theme of Arthas and northrend. Demon Hunters have the whole LEgion thing going on. Monks...I'm surprised you glazed over that one, considering how the entire expansion was asian-themed.

But you've got a point with Worgen and Goblins. And Blood elves/Draenei also had a similarly weak presence.

I guess I'd just be curious as to how they'd segue from "holy crap guys we just defeated Sargeras and the Burning Legion" to....."Time for pirates yaaaarrrrrrrr....oh, and Tinkers." That just seems like a hard sell.

[Teriz]

Lore arguments are a waste of time. If Blizzard wants Tinkers in the game, they will be in the game regardless of what it overlaps with, or what's in the game currently. The introduction of Demon Hunters should have taught us that Blizzard does what ever it wants when they want to do it.

Good points. Moving on.

Deathknights had virtually the entire expansion centered around the theme of Arthas and northrend. Demon Hunters have the whole LEgion thing going on. Monks...I'm surprised you glazed over that one, considering how the entire expansion was asian-themed.

But you've got a point with Worgen and Goblins. And Blood elves/Draenei also had a similarly weak presence.

I guess I'd just be curious as to how they'd segue from "holy crap guys we just defeated Sargeras and the Burning Legion" to....."Time for pirates yaaaarrrrrrrr....oh, and Tinkers." That just seems like a hard sell.

From the expansion leak a few weeks ago;

Name: Rise of the Naga Empire Main Villians: Azshara, N'zoth Plot: The Burning Legion has diverted the attention of the heroes of Azeroth away from their home lands. As the war wages on Argus to stop the Legion, Azshara continues her preparations in carrying out the will of N'zoth by readying an invasion that will cover every continent on the planet. The Naga Empire has been building its forces and patiently waiting for the perfect time to strike. Using a twisted form of black magic and power granted to her from N'Zoth, Azshara will carry out a ritual that will cause the submerged Naga empire to rise from the depths. Both the Horde and Alliance are unprepared for such an attack, and as a result, many iconic locations will be destroyed. In order to defend the lands that the factions of Azeroth hold dear, both major factions must band together even amid the hatred both feel for each other.

Inventions created by the Gnomes and adopted by the Goblins will be created and refined to help curtail the invading Naga. Gifted and mechanically intelligent Gnomes and Goblins will pilot massive suites of Armor and will be instrumental in holding off the Naga invasions. These Tinkers will be looked at by the rest of the horde and alliance as essential to the military efforts that will greatly help turn the tide of battle.

I find this plausible because (as Thimagryn posted), there are quite a few major Goblin holdings in the south seas which, if threatened, would force the Goblins to use their technology to defend themselves. We saw a bit of that with Noggenfogger in Gadgetzhan, and Gazlowe in the Barrens during the Legion invasions. In the absence of the Alliance and the Horde, I could see them using mechs on a much larger scale. You already have a class figure in Gazlowe who just happens to be an engineer, who just happens to control Rachet, and just happens to be a member of the cartel that controls Gagdgetzhan, Rachet, Undermine, and Booty Bay, which all just happen to be pretty easy targets for a massive Naga invasion.

You can just bring in the Gnome equivalents for whatever reason you want. I could imagine Mekkatorque leading a mech army in defense of Kul Thiras, since apparently their forces were decimated by the legion.

[Fahrenheit]

I honestly think the next class will be some kind of tinker/engineer hybrid. I also think the next player class will be neutral Naga that choose a faction after a starting zone like the panda folk.

[Teriz]

I honestly think the next class will be some kind of tinker/engineer hybrid. I also think the next player class will be neutral Naga that choose a faction after a starting zone like the panda folk.

Yeah, and that's another reason why I think the leak is plausible; Blizzard probably views a Naga neutral race as not enough to carry an expansion, and probably feels that it needs a class to go along with it. That would harken back to Mists of Pandaria that introduced a neutral race and a new class, and was largely seen as a successful expansion.

The only hole I see in that theory is that if that pans out, then the new race couldn't utilize the new class, which would be a first for Blizzard. However, I don't view that as a major hole because you could view it as Blizzard fulfilling the desires of two very vocal parts of the WoW fanbase: Tinker fans and Naga fans who would be both satisfied in one big swoop.

I don't think many Tinker fans are interested in playing as Naga, and I don't think that many Naga fans are interested in playing as Tinkers.

[Fahrenheit]

Yeah, and that's another reason why I think the leak is plausible; Blizzard probably views a Naga neutral race as not enough to carry an expansion, and probably feels that it needs a class to go along with it. That would harken back to Mists of Pandaria that introduced a neutral race and a new class, and was largely seen as a successful expansion.

The only hole I see in that theory is that if that pans out, then the new race couldn't utilize the new class, which would be a first for Blizzard. However, I don't view that as a major hole because you could view it as Blizzard fulfilling the desires of two very vocal parts of the WoW fanbase: Tinker fans and Naga fans who would be both satisfied in one big swoop.

I don't think many Tinker fans are interested in playing as Naga, and I don't think that many Naga fans are interested in playing as Tinkers.

I don't think we're going to see a tinker player class in the next expansion. I'd be shocked if we didn't see player race naga in it.

[Ielenia]

I don't see the connection between a deadly dragon (Deathwing) breaking the world, and discovering Pandas. Not much makes sense from Expac to Expac. Blizz just has its own whimsical musings.

You're not making sense, there. It's not like the discovery of Pandaria happened during the Cataclysm expansion. Each expansion is its own story arc. Sure, one plot thread may linger from expansion to expansion, but the overall story arc begins and is concluded with the expansion.

[Teriz]

I don't think we're going to see a tinker player class in the next expansion. I'd be shocked if we didn't see player race naga in it.

Well if the Tinker class is next, you're going to have to find an expansion where they fit in. Honestly, a Naga-based expansion is a very good fit since Goblins can be a major part of it.

I don't think we should base our arguments on patterns or traditions (I made that mistake in the past). Blizzard has released new races back to back, there's no reason they can't release new classes back to back.

[Deleted]

They totally do, because they know what fans want and what sells. It's only a matter of possibilities whether it's feasible or not to go that route. An entire expansion pack around Pandarens is proof of how far they are willing to take their IP just for the sake of an April Fools joke that was never made canon.

The Tinker is the in that exact same boat.

Well, if we go for the April fool joke. GIVE ME A FUCKING BARD! XD

[-Joker-]

You're not making sense, there. It's not like the discovery of Pandaria happened during the Cataclysm expansion. Each expansion is its own story arc. Sure, one plot thread may linger from expansion to expansion, but the overall story arc begins and is concluded with the expansion.

Let me SIMPLIFY it for you, since that seems to be necessary.

Each expansion is it's own plot. Each one so far has made sense, except MoP. If MoP had never been an expansion, Garrosh still would have committed his crimes, we still would have gone to Draenor, and we'd still end up facing off against a Legion that was always bound for Azeroth.

My point is, even things that make no sense at all, and are the most obscure and trivial of story lines, can still be written into existence by Blizzard. The Pandaren Warrior doesn't even have a NAME when we meet him in WC3. He is simply "The Panda" or "Pandaren Brewmaster".

Now, if an entire Expac and lore can be written for "The Panda", it only makes sense that Blizz could do the same for a Tinker Class which we also saw in WC3. People claim shit will never happen all the time. Well, we have Demon Hunters, Gnomes finally have hunters and a healing class, and there are Pandas everywhere. Anything is possible.

[Ielenia]

Like you said in a earlier post, just because we don't see them doesn't me they don't exist.There may not be big name Tinkers in Wc3 but does that mean they don't exist?The Neutral Heroes are simply Heroes that are not tied to any of the 4 armies available in wc3, all of those Heroes are Cannon, some just lack a major character to represent them.

It's apples and oranges. It's one thing to say that just because you can't see something appearing in the game, doesn't mean said something is not canon; and saying something is canon because it appears in the multiplayer part of Warcraft 3.

Its like you're saying Gnomes weren't cannon despite the wc2 units Gnomish Flying machine and Submarine.

No, you're wrong, because gnomes appeared in the official campaigns in those games.

- - - Updated - - -

They totally do, because they know what fans want and what sells.

Then that begs the question: why were they not implemented sooner? Why was the Pandaren the last race to be introduced in twelve years? Why was the Demon Hunter the last class to be introduced in twelve years?

[TriHard]

Point is. Goblin and Gnomes are the least popular races, now why would they give a class EXCLUSIVELY to the two races that people like the least? It does not make sense and they already know it would backfire.

Had they given the class to Orcs and Draenei as well as the midget races, then I could POSSIBLY see it happening, the Orcs have always been great at engineering and the Draenei's technology is far superior to anything else in Warcraft and they also have the best engineers in the lore as proven by the Exodar.

Tinker will destroy the Engineering profession's purpose and they can definitely not remove engineering altogether because a lot of people have paid tons of gold to get that shit up to max. And also, they've never done a new class after one another so I don't see it happening.

It's either going to be a neutral race (Naga) or it's going to be sub races that'll be the next expansion's selling point. Though I guess we'll just have to wait and see until Gamescom or Blizzcon

[Ielenia]

Let me SIMPLIFY it for you, since that seems to be necessary.

Each expansion is it's own plot. Each one so far has made sense, except MoP. If MoP had never been an expansion, Garrosh still would have committed his crimes, we still would have gone to Draenor, and we'd still end up facing off against a Legion that was always bound for Azeroth.

You're the one not making sense here. Because for the same reason you're excluding MoP, it could be used to exclude any expansion. If Wrath had never happened, the Lich King would have taken advantage of the chaos caused by Deathwing when he 'broke the world' to unleash his undead minions, for example. Conversely, by the same token, if MoP hadn't happened, Garrosh wouldn't have done all the evil things that he did, and most likely still be leader of the Horde (a controversial one, but not one where the the majority of the Horde itself would rebel against), therefore most likely WoD wouldn't have happened, and neither would the Legion expansion.

My point is, even things that make no sense at all, and are the most obscure and trivial of story lines, can still be written into existence by Blizzard. The Pandaren Warrior doesn't even have a NAME when we meet him in WC3. He is simply "The Panda" or "Pandaren Brewmaster".

Now, if an entire Expac and lore can be written for "The Panda", it only makes sense that Blizz could do the same for a Tinker Class which we also saw in WC3.

The key point that you're ignoring is that, unlike the Pandaren Brewmaster, the Tinker unit has never appeared in an official campaign, therefore you cannot consider the WC3 Goblin Tinker as a canon character.

[Teriz]

Point is. Goblin and Gnomes are the least popular races, now why would they give a class EXCLUSIVELY to the two races that people like the least? It does not make sense and they already know it would backfire.

Ever stop to think that people like them the least because there isn't a class that encompasses the technological side of their respective cultures? Especially when said culture is by far the most visible aspect of both races. My avatar shows Gnomes as a highly advanced race. No class to represent that fact. If your first introduction to Gnomes and Goblins is Hearthstone or Heroes of the Storm, you're going to be sorely disappointed when you enter WoW and see NO classes taking full advantage of the technology theme.

I mean, consider someone who is watching the Legion cinematic, and they see Mekkatorque blasting a demon away while inside a mech. They think that's pretty cool, and roll a Gnome hoping that they can play as a mech pilot in the game. Now imagine their disappointment when they roll through the class list and don't see the option available. What's worse is that they see the options available and are completely turned off because that isn't how the race was presented in the cinematic. I mean, why play as a Gnome warrior when you can play as an Orc, Tauren, or Human one?

That's potentially thousands of players who aren't playing WoW, or are playing WoW but are playing as a different race, because they couldn't play a Gnomish mech pilot.

Tinker will destroy the Engineering profession's purpose and they can definitely not remove engineering altogether because a lot of people have paid tons of gold to get that shit up to max. And also, they've never done a new class after one another so I don't see it happening.

1. Engineering's purpose is to craft and sell items to players. None of that changes if you introduce a tinker class.
2.They also never did a new race back to back until Mists of Pandaria.

I'm not saying that its definitely going to happen, but the arguments against it happening are extraordinarily weak.

[Deleted]

Point is. Goblin and Gnomes are the least popular races, now why would they give a class EXCLUSIVELY to the two races that people like the least? It does not make sense and they already know it would backfire.

Had they given the class to Orcs and Draenei as well as the midget races, then I could POSSIBLY see it happening, the Orcs have always been great at engineering and the Draenei's technology is far superior to anything else in Warcraft and they also have the best engineers in the lore as proven by the Exodar.

Tinker will destroy the Engineering profession's purpose and they can definitely not remove engineering altogether because a lot of people have paid tons of gold to get that shit up to max. And also, they've never done a new class after one another so I don't see it happening.

It's either going to be a neutral race (Naga) or it's going to be sub races that'll be the next expansion's selling point. Though I guess we'll just have to wait and see until Gamescom or Blizzcon

Seriously, destroy engineering and all other professions with it while at it and bring the tinker. Boring stuff vs fun stuff. Sounds like an improvement to me.
Btw though, that is complete BS. A profession and a playable class are very different things with very different purposes. Engineering has always been "just for funsies" and often breaks the game with exploiting. We can do without it.

Also... the bias over the "midget races". <3

See, i don't like elves. You didn't see me QQ that DH's can only be elves. Theres fantasy in these classes and if they make a tinker class it makes full sense for it to be goblin and gnome exclusive. Don't like it? Don't play it. It's what i did with DH.

[-Joker-]

The key point that you're ignoring is that, unlike the Pandaren Brewmaster, the Tinker unit has never appeared in an official campaign, therefore you cannot consider the WC3 Goblin Tinker as a canon character.

The High Tinker has appeared in an official campaign, therefore showing Tinkers to be of use in the next expac. Gnome Tinkers and Goblin Tinkers are already iconic in the WoW universe.



I'd say there is MORE than enough evidence to suggest that Tinkers, much like Night Elf Magi, will be needed at some point, and the Tinkers of Azeroth will take on Apprentices and teach them to master their technical craft. Blizz has plenty to work with, not only from WoW, but from their RTS collection. If they can make Pandaria from ONE little Brewmaster, surely they can make a Tinker line from almost 50 existing Tinkers on Azeroth.

[TriHard]

Seriously, destroy engineering and all other professions with it while at it and bring the tinker. Boring stuff vs fun stuff. Sounds like an improvement to me.
Btw though, that is complete BS. A profession and a playable class are very different things with very different purposes. Engineering has always been "just for funsies" and often breaks the game with exploiting. We can do without it.

Also... the bias over the "midget races". <3

See, i don't like elves. You didn't see me QQ that DH's can only be elves. Theres fantasy in these classes and if they make a tinker class it makes full sense for it to be goblin and gnome exclusive. Don't like it? Don't play it. It's what i did with DH.

One of my mains were a goblin hunter, there's no bias there whatsoever.
But Tinker ain't happening anyway

[Ielenia]

The High Tinker has appeared in an official campaign,

No. As far as I know, he never appeared. Care to show where has it appeared in any of the previous Warcraft games and their expansions, please?

I'd say there is MORE than enough evidence to suggest that Tinkers

None of those existed before WoW, so you're making a point against an argument that does not exist, rendering your entire point rather moot.

[Thimagryn]

Then that begs the question: why were they not implemented sooner? Why was the Pandaren the last race to be introduced in twelve years? Why was the Demon Hunter the last class to be introduced in twelve years?

And we already know the answers to that when we go to the developer interviews and find out why things like that aren't front-loaded in the first two expansion packs.

The developers can't just add every class concept they want to whenever they want. Demon Hunters were planned for TBC; why not be added? The game wasn't ready for a new class considering class balance was still completely FUBAR. Remember that TBC was the first to open up Shamans to the Allliance and Paladins to the Horde too, that itself was a huge rebalancing effort.

Why did Pandaren get introduced later instead of being the Alliance option in TBC like they planned? Because they felt Draenei had a better concept they could run with, something that fit the high-concept theme they were aiming for with Outland's cosmic ethereal landscapes. They could have added Pandas, but it was decided internally that it was a concept they could revisit later.

And thus we have the Tinker. Why now instead of sooner? Well, it's always been a concept that sat on the backburner while they tackled expansion ideas and themes that they wanted to explore more of instead. Same reason why we haven't had South Seas expansion despite the fact it's been anticipated since Vanilla. Same reason why we didn't get an Emerald Nightmare expansion despite the fact it being hinted straight out of WoW's original concept art.