College students furious after they’re tricked into rejecting socialist ideal

[Mistame]

Did the OP watch a different video? I saw no "furious". In fact, it looked pretty tame and pretty much a fail on the part of the trolls. Education is hardly comparable to economics and doing so actually works against the point they're trying to make.

The problem with this hoax is a central misunderstanding that wealth is earned justly, solely and without attachment from social infrastructures. This is just not the case and almost never the case in instances of extreme wealth.

First, "earned" is not limited to physical labor. If I win the Powerball, drop the majority into savings and earn more in interest than most people make working, I've still earned every penny, including the initial winnings. Secondly, there are no such things as implied favors. If you do something for me without my asking, I don't owe you anything. The notion that one "owes" society because without the infrastructure, etc, success wouldn't have been possible is not an argument for, well, anything. If I have a successful transport business, I don't owe road-builders (or society) anything. I pay taxes to use the roads. My "debt" ends there. If I've a successful internet business, I don't owe those who built that infrastructure (or society) anything. My "debt" ends at my hosting and ISP fees.

[Vash The Stampede]

Eh. Money and grades aren't that comparable.

That's what I was thinking. Might as well use achievement points as a comparison.

[Draco-Onis]

Because why would you address the argument, when ad hominem is just at hand, right?

Because there is no argument to be had, the OP is just there for right wingers to have themselves a good chuckle. There used to be a good argument to be had with conservatives about state rights, economies and taxation but today the alt right doesn't even understand basic economics let alone the nuances of taxation and economic opportunities.

[Forogil]

Are all communists socialists? Are all socialists communists?

Simple answers would be yes and no.

But as previously stated there are multiple definitions of both terms, including that they mean the same thing - but are used by different people, so there are multiple right answers.

Languages also change over time. Communism and socialism have been associated with failure (either as states - or as ideologically pure) and people thus switch labels, and there are also new ideologies that don't fit the old mould - like third way; and thus some parties switch ideology without changing name - and some switch name but not ideology.

Is Sweden communist? Canada? Britain? It would be hilarious to watch the response of people living in those countries to you claiming that they were all communists.

Of course none of those countries are predominately communist or socialist (there are some significant elements that might be called socialists - e.g. large parts of education and in some cases health-care are publicly owned and controlled in those countries; but it is not as simple as one might think).

None of them have a large communist party, and except for labour under Corbyn none of them even have a major party with a socialist program (and many claim that the socialism proposed by Corbyn explains the decline of labour in the polls).

[Triks]

That's what I was thinking. Might as well use achievement points as a comparison.

Duh. Libertarianism works until you are made redundant and have to take welfare. The primary difference between education, a junky video game and life is that in the former two I am not fighting for my physical survival. Ignoring this is ignoring the reason for most revolutions - eventually the socially-deprived get pissed and take up arms.

[Astalnar]

The "argument" of the op is a combination of gish gallop and lying to the other side people.
The asked them about redistribution of grades then pretended they had asked about equality of education, no wonder the other side was upset.

Actually that is a common deconstruction in philosophy. You try to find an analogous situation and see if the logic still holds. If the logic holds, but the one saying the first thing is now objecting to the second it is on him to explain why that is so. Getting upset because someone pointed out at the flaw in your argument never helped anyone.

Hell, that alone was the whole point of science fiction and fantasy genre. To reexamine ideas without their baggage attached to them. In that respect, question still stands, how can you argue for more redistribution of wealth while at the same time object to redistribution of grades. All while providing the same argument against redistribution of grades, that people use against redistribution of wealth.

[Dextroden]

That's what I was thinking. Might as well use achievement points as a comparison.

Think of it this way.

It's the intent. Money and grades aren't really similar. But, the idea of not wanting to reduce your grade/the money in your pocket that you worked to make to help someone else.

Some people truly are fine with it. And some are for the idea as long as it's not their A turning into a B or C.

[Zecora]

This is dumb. Money and grades aren't the same and redistributing one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with why you should or shouldn't redistribute the other.

But really, what is it with conservatives and their constant fixation with trying to troll college students?

At a guess, either jealousy of someone doing something they never got to, or bitter resentment that someone actually have some ideals that opposes their own warped worldview. Then there is the tired old narrative of universities and colleges being "breeding grounds" of "libhruls", which somehow makes them...what, evil?

For a nation with essentially no real political diversity beyond two parties that are near mirror images of eachother, americans sure spend a lot of time hating eachother. Which is fine, except that the hatred is spilling over into the rest of the world. So just speed it up and rip your nation apart already, so the rest of us can get some peace and quiet again.

[Forogil]

No one in the video has an extreme or unreasonable reaction. A good number of the students in the video actually do sign the petition to redistribute GPA scores.

Yes, I like one of them explaining the reason: he has low GPA-score so he would benefit.

However, it was not only students - but also an alleged professor signing it.

[Orange Joe]

Since you want to compare earning grades with earning money. Shouldn't there be a cap on how much money you can earn?

[niil945]

Actually that is a common deconstruction in philosophy. You try to find an analogous situation and see if the logic still holds. If the logic holds, but the one saying the first thing is now objecting to the second it is on him to explain why that is so. Getting upset because someone pointed out at the flaw in your argument never helped anyone.

Sure, I'm not sure who actually doesn't understand that thus explaining it is superfluous. The issue that people take is that the comparison isn't remotely valid. As an aside, it's not "on him to explain why that is so". If the comparison was actually valid the person who argues the logic is flawed could demonstrate why the logic is flawed using the logic of the first case. Except instead we get people who are intellectually dishonest who try to argue by deconstructing an argument and applying that logic to something that isn't analogous.

- - - Updated - - -

Simple answers would be yes and no.

Of course those are the answers. Your tangent is entirely irrelevant to the conversation and Nexx is right.

[Forogil]

Think of it this way.

It's the intent. Money and grades aren't really similar. But, the idea of not wanting to reduce your grade/the money in your pocket that you worked to make to help someone else.

And some realize that others might be freeloaders in that case.

Some people truly are fine with it. And some are for the idea as long as it's not their A turning into a B or C.

The magic in both economy and education is that we can make it seem that everyone is better off by the wonders of inflation - except that we no longer have it in the economy; so that most persons had better pay and grades than their parents.
(Yes, on longer time-scales there has also been an actual economic improvement - and according to the Flynn effect also an increase in intelligence.)

It seems the most common grade in the US is actually 'A' nowadays; not 'C'.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course those are the answers. Your tangent is entirely irrelevant to the conversation and Nexx is right.

You mean that communism is (part of) socialism and thus Nexx who started this with "communism isn't socialism" is right by stating that there isn't a super/subset relation between them and there is only a slight overlap?

[Triks]

Actually that is a common deconstruction in philosophy. You try to find an analogous situation and see if the logic still holds. If the logic holds, but the one saying the first thing is now objecting to the second it is on him to explain why that is so. Getting upset because someone pointed out at the flaw in your argument never helped anyone.

Hell, that alone was the whole point of science fiction and fantasy genre. To reexamine ideas without their baggage attached to them. In that respect, question still stands, how can you argue for more redistribution of wealth while at the same time object to redistribution of grades. All while providing the same argument against redistribution of grades, that people use against redistribution of wealth.

That's a common way to make yourself sound insane. Grades don't impact your physical survival and don't impact society the same way as large multinationals (or the top 10% or whatever). If I get a D and Point Dexter gets an A, this has no bearing on me. When I pay my taxes but Starbucks decides to use legal loopholes, it means that I will be taxed more to make up for it.

This is taking an incredibly complex question - taxation and what should be a fair rate of taxation - and turning it into a binary choice with a retarded analogy strapped onto it. Please, just stop.

[Taso]

The founding fathers didn't really believe in meritocracy though, most were wealthy slaveholders who only had the time to sit around all day debating abstract philosophical points because their plantations provided for them. Also, calling the estate tax the "death tax" is just some GOP dog whistle - inheritance is a payment from one person to another and thus is taxed just like any other transfer should be.

And Karl Marx and engles wrote while profiting off the working class and capitalist. Someone had to buy those books and fund them.

[Forogil]

That's a common way to make yourself sound insane. Grades don't impact your physical survival and don't impact society the same way as large multinationals (or the top 10% or whatever). If I get a D and Point Dexter gets an A, this has no bearing on me.

If you cannot get into the next tier of education, or cannot get a good job because 'Point Dexter' got there first and had better grades it directly influences you.

It might be that it doesn't happen, or that the job 'Point Dexter' got wasn't that good; but in general grades matter - and thus fair grades are important for society and individuals.

[Everwake]

Everyone is magnanimous on the internet. Everyone is a freedom fighter and "resists" on the internet. Everyone is a civil rights icon on the internet...until it comes time to put up or shut up. When it's time to open their wallets and redistribute the contents or shelter refugees in their homes, these people vanish.

A petty example:
"We want diversity in comic books!"
"Fine. Here's your diversity. Please start buying the comic books you demanded."
"Oh. Well, I don't read comics."

[Forogil]

And Karl Marx and engles wrote while profiting off the working class and capitalist. Someone had to buy those books and fund them.

I don't think that was a major source of income.
The name is Engels, and I believe that they profited from the workers at his father's mill.

[Theinquisition]

So can anybody else. Their stupid ideas are not worth less or more than the edgy libertarian or the retarded anarcho-capitalist. Kids do stupid shit, what else is new?

- - - Updated - - -



Then please tell me why you lot voted for Trump and his pledge to "bring back the jobs" and to "stick it to the elites"? Income inequality IS an issue and is going to get a whole lot worse as mindless consumerism and egoism are the basis of modern "society".

Not to get all religious here, but Socialism violates at least three of the Ten Commandments: It turns government into God, it legalizes thievery and it elevates covetousness. Discussions of income inequality, after all, aren't about prosperity but about petty spite. Why should you care how much money I make, so long as you are happy?
Capitalism requires individual responsibility and accountability. People are seen as atomized units in a capitalist system - they are either useful, or they are not. They are not seen racially or ethnically or religiously. They consume and they produce, and those are their only relevant characteristics.

[PosPosPos]

This is dumb. Money and grades aren't the same and redistributing one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with why you should or shouldn't redistribute the other.

But really, what is it with conservatives and their constant fixation with trying to troll college students?

That's pretty much the "success" they are capable of. Anything bigger, and you get the massive failures that is the GOP and Trump.

[Zeek Daniels]

Its almost as if people want to stay poor because thats what happens when you redistribute wealth. The rich and wealthy leave because its pointless to have a business generate money and then have that money stolen and given to people who neither deserve or earned it. Then all you have is poor companies and poor individuals with no wealth to pool from. So the whole system collapses and the poor are even worse off than b4 because they have been incentivized to ignore work and now theres no businesses to get work.

People on the left keep thinking theres going to be people to steal from to get your way. Soon as all those people leave, and they will as has been shown historically, your going to be left with nothing. So get off your ass and do some work and stop making bad decisions that hurt your financial capabilities.