Practical skills > higher education?

[kamuimac]

Sometimes, especially these days, it seems that having practical skills gets you more than having a higher degree in life.
Note: this is in the Netherlands. I know that this isn't the case in every country, although practical skills always trump book knowledge everywhere imo.

I have a nephew that is a plasterer. He started working when he was 16 and never stopped since.
Over the years he became better and better and nowadays, about 10 year later, he has more work than time.
He's 28 now, he earns between €3000-€4000 a month, after taxes. He's a home owner, owns a new BMW 3 series and goes on holiday allover the world twice a year. He also works with some other guys around his age that are pretty much in the same income range.

Then there are about a dozen family members around that same age who all got bachelor- and master degrees.
Many are "between jobs", live in a little rental apartment and many don't even own a car. Those that have a job earn €1600-1800 after taxes.

The fun part for me is how many of them ridiculed him when he was younger. Some even even said out loud to him once that he would never make much of his life, yet here he is now way better off than the lot of them.

The general question here is, will practical skills get you more out of life than a (higher) degree in todays economy?

its a bit complicated - he may be making more then they at the age bracket 20-30 but he will be making this much till the end of his carrier while they may be making 1500-2000 uero in 25-30 then take managers position and make 3-4k + while siting comfortably in office instead working hard manualy and then at 50 + when he will be still making 3k a month they will be in directors postition making 10k+ while still sitting comfortably in office while he still will be working very hard manualy everyday .

its all about whether you are ok with hard labour till pension and earning more or less the same your whole life or gradualy makin more and more while having comfy office job.

your nephew will start seeing difference around age of 40 when his body will start to "corrode" much faster then their while he will have no other choice but still work very hard.

practical skills will be for sure much more beneficial then some random shitty degree in liberal arts - but if you have good degree from good uni you will easily overtake earnings of blue collar by the age of 30 - you just need to sacrifice few first years while learning your job .

[Elim Garak]

Stop being obsessed with money. There's a certain level of income after which any more money doesn't make you happier. And no it's not in 6 figures for most people.
People who earn a lot of money work hard, but money is not the goal for them it's just a byproduct of their productivity. They work hard because they are wired that way. They don't need a degree for that, no one does. But you can bet they are (self) educated. It all boils down to intelligence anyway.

[kamuimac]

Stop being obsessed with money. There's a certain level of income after which any more money doesn't make you happier. And no it's not in 6 figures for most people.
People who earn a lot of money work hard, but money is not the goal for them it's just a byproduct of their productivity. They work hard because they are wired that way. They don't need a degree for that, no one does. But you can bet they are (self) educated. It all boils down to intelligence anyway.

there are also things like social position and how people see your work - blue collars will be always seen as "worse" kind of jobs - even if they make 2x or 3x money that office position gives the job in office will be always seen as "better" in eyes of society .

it all depends on aspiration one has - if someone is ok with being physical worker till death its ok i guess - but in eyes of society he will always be seen as "worse" compared to those with better jobs

[Deleted]

The people with higher education you know need to step up their game. I'm 28 and looking in my age range most average people earn more or less € 2200-2500 after taxes. And that's in Belgium, tax hell.

Of course a good craftsman is going to earn a lot, simply because they are in such high demand. A good plumber, electrician or someone running his own construction business are worth their weight in gold.

When it comes to people with higher education the market is simply saturated, especially concerning generalists. You need to continuously invest in your own post-uni education in order to stay ahead of the pack, which is largely passive and lazy. If you work on building the right skills for your job, are willing to relocate for lucrative projects, your earning potential is significantly higher than your average B.Sc. & M.Sc. in an administrative job in the private sector.
It's so bad that you hardly get past the HR screening in the company I work for without a bachelor/master degree, simply because for even the lowest level jobs we have (retail clerks or administrative office personnel) there are 40-50+ applicants. This results in people who studied for 5 years (sociology or whatever) ending up pushing pencils for €1800 after tax without any particularly positive career outlook.

[XangXu]

Knowing mechanics and how to weld giant metal spikes to your car is fast becoming a more valuable skill for the future...

[Puupi]

I think it is commonplace in the developed world, or most of it at least. There is a similar law in CZ, but it delays the construction and increases the costs so unfortunately, very often the archaeological finds are concealed and / or destroyed to make sure archeologists cannot find them and affect the construction.

No, no, no... that's entirely different to what the other person said it's in Denmark. Obviously it's common in developed world to do archaeological surveys (even required by law) if there is a good possibility that the site contains archaeological finds (aka there was something found just next door, or it is known that the site is an old graveyard etc.) or something is found when constructing.

That's not how the other person said it's in Denmark. In Denmark you need to do an archaeological survey before any construction on any piece of land.

[The One Percent]

supply/demand. basic stuff.

[Independent voter]

Stop being obsessed with money. There's a certain level of income after which any more money doesn't make you happier. And no it's not in 6 figures for most people.
People who earn a lot of money work hard, but money is not the goal for them it's just a byproduct of their productivity. They work hard because they are wired that way. They don't need a degree for that, no one does. But you can bet they are (self) educated. It all boils down to intelligence anyway.

There was this Mexican who came to the US illegally, he got his citizenship, then he got a job as a welder on the railroad, good union job, good health insurance like $50K a year in pay and in that area that was good money.

He quit that went to school and became a surgeon. That's mind boggling to me, you have a decent job and are set for life and for some reason you make a huge change in your life taking on all kinds of risk. He works as a surgeon now, making all kinds of money.

Yes, he is very much the exception to the rule.

[Puupi]

There was this Mexican who came to the US illegally, he got his citizenship, then he got a job as a welder on the railroad, good union job, good health insurance like $50K a year in pay and in that area that was good money.

He quit that went to school and became a surgeon. That's mind boggling to me, you have a decent job and are set for life and for some reason you make a huge change in your life taking on all kinds of risk. He works as a surgeon now, making all kinds of money.

Yes, he is very much the exception to the rule.

It's mind boggling to you that someone wants to work as a surgeon instead of a welder?

[freezion]

No, no, no... that's entirely different to what the other person said it's in Denmark. Obviously it's common in developed world to do archaeological surveys (even required by law) if there is a good possibility that the site contains archaeological finds (aka there was something found just next door, or it is known that the site is an old graveyard etc.) or something is found when constructing.

That's not how the other person said it's in Denmark. In Denmark you need to do an archaeological survey before any construction on any piece of land.

it's not a full outblown survey as in an entire operation.
i'm currently hired in for the construction of a a new super-bikeroad and it's literally only one archaeologist with a metal detector and some simple surveying equipment that's present when the first layer of earth is being removed/planing is happening.

they don't have to be present for EVERY construction.
if the lot have been used for construction previously there's no need for it in general.
but restructuring agricultural, forests and certain old built lots to construction lots require the supervision of an archaeologists during the first process.
it's usually not required inside of city border because the ground have already been surveyed or have been undergoing so much construction throughout history that anything that was there have been destroyed.

if anything is found, of there are signs of things could be there a full survey/dig operation will take place.
the operation have to be paid by the lot owner, but they can decide to leave it be.

[yetgdhfgh]

Higher education is a joke

My brother was expelled from school but was tough enough to join the army he did 10 years then left got the army to pay for his higher education which he just cheated the test at the end and now he earns over 100k as a IT engineer and he has been bloody good at that for nearly 6 years now!.

College these days doesnt mean shit compared to world experience and knowing how to think fast on your feet!

[Zoibert the Bear]

Higher education paves the way, but practical skills are what will make you shine in the long run. As a manager in a software development environment, I can say that a degree means shit fuck this day and age. Doesn't even reflect commitment anymore. Skill based selection is most definitely the way to go.

[freezion]

Higher education is a joke

My brother was expelled from school but was tough enough to join the army he did 10 years then left got the army to pay for his higher education which he just cheated the test at the end and now he earns over 100k as a IT engineer and he has been bloody good at that for nearly 6 years now!.

College these days doesnt mean shit compared to world experience and knowing how to think fast on your feet!

in some countries they might be, and some they arent.

i can promise you that you wont last long in jobs like actuaries, state authorised accounting, construction engineering etc. if you've been bullshitting your way through the education.
unless you have a broad and deep knowledge of those areas beforehand you're going to consistently fuck up in trades that have error margins that are close to zero.

[yetgdhfgh]

in some countries they might be, and some they arent.

i can promise you that you wont last long in jobs like actuaries, state authorised accounting, construction engineering etc. if you've been bullshitting your way through the education.
unless you have a broad and deep knowledge of those areas beforehand you're going to consistently fuck up in trades that have error margins that are close to zero.

Thing is we live in a age where every piece of information you could possibly need is just a few clicks away.

Hell iam sure i could learn brain surgery by just using google!

We dont need to listen to some boring professor while sitting at a desk now cause all the information we need is at our fingertips

You will be amazed how many people actually cheat at tests cause my brother told me how laughably easy it was but you still need the confidence to demonstrate that you know what you are doing at your job. There is stories of doctors being unmasked as totally unlicensed while being very competent at there jobs.

[freezion]

Thing is we live in a age where every piece of information you could possibly need is just a few clicks away.

Hell iam sure i could learn brain surgery by just using google!

We dont need to listen to some boring professor while sitting at a desk now cause all the information we need is at our fingertips

You will be amazed how many people actually cheat at tests cause my brother told me how laughably easy it was but you still need the confidence to demonstrate that you know what you are doing at your job. There is stories of doctors being unmasked as totally unlicensed while being very competent at there jobs.

are you talking about the US?

because in denmark every written test is heavily monitored, digitally registered in a government owned/state authorised database.
things like being a practicing authorized doctor can't be done because you need to get goverment approval, and they are getting your credentials from those databases.
at least where i'm from it's nigh impossible to cheat, primarily because bachelors, masters and above is a project and report you're writing, submitting and presenting to an independant sensor and a professor from the school, not an actual test.

[yetgdhfgh]

are you talking about the US?

because in denmark every written test is heavily monitored, digitally registered in a government owned/state authorised database.
things like being a practicing authorized doctor can't be done because you need to get goverment approval, and they are getting your credentials from those databases.
at least where i'm from it's nigh impossible to cheat, primarily because bachelors, masters and above is a project and report you're writing, submitting and presenting to an independant sensor and a professor from the school, not an actual test.

Well my Brother did it in the UK back in 2008 but i know cheating is still widespread in the US where i live.

[Trunks2017]

Feel free to note that you don't need a background in engineering and don't need the expertise of an engineer to be an engineering manager. Excuse me for being skeptical.

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If people want to use Bill Gates, a Harvard-destined, maths/CS prodigy born to a pair of academics, as their reason to take the most difficult path possible, I have no qualms with it. Darwinism at work...

He had the expertise of an engineer though , that is as far as train engineering goes. I never accepted his job offer so I don't know how good he was and if he deserved to be up there but he was and got his masters later anyways.