Alien: Covenant (Prometheus 2: Paradise)

[Deleted]

I agree it makes no sense to not wear bodysuits even on planet with the right conditions for life.

I mean, it probably won't save you from huge beasts or stuff like that, BUT there are also microorganisms or spores that could be seriously threatening and I doubt you want to encounter anything like this unless you make all the research.

Especially when you didn't see or hear any living animal.

They lost their captain at the start. Their morale went down big time and they found a perfect planet suitable for humans, do we know how good their computers are at that time to scan and calculate the atmosphere and nature of a different planet for possible micro-organisms? No. Do we know how good medicine they have already for places that are suitable for life? No. This goes way far to the future and we have no clue how that cryosleep stasis effects to human minds after so sudden accident? No.

This is no document about real life, it's a science fiction movie. And only thing the viewers need is the right attunement for such.

Just need to keep mind open on these movies to avoid disappointment. Only thing that first came to mind was why they didn't have any drones check areas first? But indeed, they were on a mission straight to some other planet they already knew about enough to settle for.

The movie is as bad like the Game of Thrones series only for those who lack the right mindset.

[RH92]

Do we know how good medicine they have already for places that are suitable for life? No.

Their medicine can be as advanced as it can be for all the stuff native to earth, but there is a high chance it doesn't work against diseases of alien origins. It would still take time to examine it, start testing and eventually cure.

This delay can mean a difference between life and death and I doubt you want to lose members of your team to temporarily unknown cause you can prevent simply by using protective gear.

I mean, isn't it highly suspicious you land on a planet with perfect conditions for life and yet all you see is flora? Isn't it obvious there is something dangerous there?

[potis]

Hi. I'm an ACTUAL scientist, and I'm here to tell you that you're a moron. The guy you keep responding to is 100% correct. No scientist would EVER set foot on a brand new planet with zero protective gear. Atmospheric conditions be damned, the risk of biological or chemical contamination is still much too high before weeks (if not months) of testing on air, soil, water, etc. have been conducted to ensure no risk of contamination whatsoever.

There's imagination, and then there's outright pandering to narrative laziness--a laziness which did not exist in the predecessor films.

PS: Don't go for the "but the FUUUUUTURE" woowoo bullshit line. All the super tech in the world doesn't mean safety precautions get thrown out the window, especially given that direct tests need to be conducted on the surface from multiple locations. There is and never will ve a magic computer that can detect bacteria from space.

Fanboyism doesnt work with logic.

That wasnt even the topping of the movie, the topping was:

An ancient civilization that literally created life on earth as shown on Prometheus and wanted to wipe it clean, cant scan their own ship to see its empty and they welcome it back, what would that make them without even counting the first single-cell organisms 4 Billion years ago, lets ignore that, lets go straight to humanity with the data we have, not the sci-fi.

A civilization that created humans on earth averagely 2 million years ago, does not have the technology to scan their own ship so they get wiped..or suddenly they cant recognize their own Warships.

The stupid in Covenant reached insane levels.

[Deleted]

See I think the way the Engineers were portrayed in Covenant was one of the most interesting things, we know they were a space faring race for atleast 2 million years if they created humanity, but 2 million years is a long ass time, maybe there civilisation fell and the few that were left on the homeworld were the remnants, we see Empires rise and fall all the time on Earth, some last decades some last a thousand years, but they all fall eventually, whose to say the same didn't happen to the Engineers?

There's also the possibility that what we see of the Engineer city isn't the entire city, the Engineers are pretty obviously a species that prefers to live underground, with the pale skin and dark eyes, so maybe they moved a lot of there city underground so as to leave the surface untouched, which is why the entire planet is like a garden.

Or maybe when they moved off into space they moved the majority of there production capabilies off world and returned there homeworld to its natural state.

This is why I think Promethus and Covenant should have been entirely about the Engineers and less about the Alien itself, there's an excellent story to be told, and we catch glimpses of it here and there thoughout Prometheus and Covenant, but it's never given centre stage.

[Deleted]

Their medicine can be as advanced as it can be for all the stuff native to earth, but there is a high chance it doesn't work against diseases of alien origins. It would still take time to examine it, start testing and eventually cure.

This delay can mean a difference between life and death and I doubt you want to lose members of your team to temporarily unknown cause you can prevent simply by using protective gear.

I mean, isn't it highly suspicious you land on a planet with perfect conditions for life and yet all you see is flora? Isn't it obvious there is something dangerous there?

It is and thus the movie is set in future. With waaaaay far advanced technology. A lot can happen in 83 years as they already are doing stasis sleep and travelling through stars. From Star to Star - in some stasis - if that is being forgiven I think it's crap for judging something like a planet that has been populated a race that seems to have pretty much same breathing mechanisms in a planet very much likely to ours or even better. Again, if people let such thingies effect to their movie experience on some science fiction takes then, I sure do feel sorry for their lack of imagination. Why even bother to see Aliens where they didn't either have masks for protection on LV-426 or whatever it was or Alien 3 if there obviously can always be an unknown threat that can be breathed? There are plenty of reasons they could go to the planet.

High five to Tywin Lannister! Alien franchise is not Avatar.



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Fanboyism doesnt work with logic.

That wasnt even the topping of the movie, the topping was:

An ancient civilization that literally created life on earth as shown on Prometheus and wanted to wipe it clean, cant scan their own ship to see its empty and they welcome it back, what would that make them without even counting the first single-cell organisms 4 Billion years ago, lets ignore that, lets go straight to humanity with the data we have, not the sci-fi.

A civilization that created humans on earth averagely 2 million years ago, does not have the technology to scan their own ship so they get wiped..or suddenly they cant recognize their own Warships.

The stupid in Covenant reached insane levels.

Because of reasons you can't obviously figure out. Lack of imagination. As it is a different race - different time - different planet - different technology. Whatever we are not able to find out yet for years. It's not blind "fanboism" when it goes with all movies and I do get disappointed too, but I do admit that it's optimistic point of view that gives a nice boost. Didn't really like for example Alien 4 and Prometheus. But then I grew up and learned to go with the flow and not let my own stupidity to control my movie experiences.

And when it comes to the engingeers fate, so what if it went how it went. The universe is not a fairy tale where nothing can go wrong.

[potis]

Because of reasons you can't obviously figure out. Lack of imagination. As it is a different race - different time - different planet - different technology. Whatever we are not able to find out yet for years. It's not blind "fanboism" when it goes with all movies and I do get disappointed too, but I do admit that it's optimistic point of view that gives a nice boost. Didn't really like for example Alien 4 and Prometheus. But then I grew up and learned to go with the flow and not let my own stupidity to control my movie experiences.

I am sorry i am more intelligent than you and the movies you find "Intelligent" dont intrigue me, i really am, there is a limit i can turn my brain off and enjoy a movie, and this wasnt it.

It was a shit movie, Prometheus was fine, but Covenant is a horrible movie, horrible, horrible movie.

[Deleted]

It is and thus the movie is set in future. With waaaaay far advanced technology. A lot can happen in 83 years as they already are doing stasis sleep and travelling through stars. From Star to Star - in some stasis - if that is being forgiven I think it's crap for judging something like a planet that has been populated a race that seems to have pretty much same breathing mechanisms in a planet very much likely to ours or even better. Again, if people let such thingies effect to their movie experience on some science fiction takes then, I sure do feel sorry for their lack of imagination. Why even bother to see Aliens where they didn't either have masks for protection on LV-426 or whatever it was or Alien 3 if there obviously can always be an unknown threat that can be breathed? There are plenty of reasons they could go to the planet.

High five to Tywin Lannister! Alien franchise is not Avatar.

Uninhabited.

Uncharted.

Untested.

In Aliens they land on a planet that has had colonists on it for years, the testing will have been done. In Aliens 3 they are on a planet which already has a human penal colony on it, so the testing will have been done.

In Prometheus, they wear full body suits when going onto a new planet, in Alien they wear full body suits when going onto a new planet, in Covenant (Which happens in between those 2 films), they don't.

Stop defending shitty logic in movies, it makes you look either stupid or a fanboy.

[Deleted]

Uninhabited.

Uncharted.

Untested.

In Aliens they land on a planet that has had colonists on it for years, the testing will have been done. In Aliens 3 they are on a planet which already has a human penal colony on it, so the testing will have been done.

In Prometheus, they wear full body suits when going onto a new planet, in Alien they wear full body suits when going onto a new planet, in Covenant (Which happens in between those 2 films), they don't.

Stop defending shitty logic in movies, it makes you look either stupid or a fanboy.

Different planets, different oxygen levels etc. How hard is it to think that they might have sent a probe that gave them more data about the atmosphere at the instant they they found the planet? Something that we have already been doing for decades and this is almost 80 years way. Go figure..

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I am sorry i am more intelligent than you and the movies you find "Intelligent" dont intrigue me, i really am, there is a limit i can turn my brain off and enjoy a movie, and this wasnt it.

It was a shit movie, Prometheus was fine, but Covenant is a horrible movie, horrible, horrible movie.

Doesn't matter. It's your loss, not mine. And again, it was about your limits that made it so horrible movie.

The failure to enjoy a movie, art or music comes always within you. You're the failure because of skills to set your mind correctly. Not the fantasy.

I do apologize for being rude.

[Deleted]

Different planets, different oxygen levels etc. How hard is it to think that they might have sent a probe that gave them more data about the atmosphere at the instant they they found the planet? Something that we have already been doing for decades and this is almost 80 years way. Go figure.

They probably did, just because there is oxygen there doesn't mean there can't be native toxins.

[Deleted]

They probably did, just because there is oxygen there doesn't mean there can't be native toxins.

which they may have tested also from that area.

When it comes to this, I think Star Trek is a big failure just because they tend to teleport themselves. Knowing that teleporting would mean that your atoms will be destroyed and copied at some other place and it's your copy that continues living. Not you.

Oh wait, maybe they had some other way to deliver that! Can't figure out how, so must be a shitty science fiction program.

Actually there are no good movies there, because "reasons I can't figure out myself" and because some little silly mistakes if those happen to come by. World of Warcraft and tons of games are totally shit as well because I'm not double standarded, but because of their credibility. Seriously, just plain dumb to waste money and time on cinemas and games

No but seriously seriously, I think people should learn to use the "God of Gaps" method when it comes to such movies. As an atheisist who has been studying this I think it can be profitable when it comes to playing with thoughts. It's really not that hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

[endersblade]

I loved this movie for a few reasons. 1, it brought back the horror that was the first Alien movie. 2, the LORE. Wow, this really filled in a lot of information. 3, Elizabeth Shaw is dead! God I couldn't not only stand just the character, but Noomi Rapace or w/e her name is is such a cunt. Fuck that woman.

There were definitely some stupid/strange moments in the movie. Captain sticking his fucking head in the egg. WTF? I would've seen that room full of those eggs, even not knowing what I know about Aliens, I woulda been NOPE NOPE NOPE and ran the fuck out of there, possibly even shooting the fuck out of David. The fight between Michael Fassbender and Michael Fassbender. I mean Walter and David. Walter is the superior fighter, he was in a position to fucking END David. Walter's loyalty was to his crew, and he knew David was bad. THERE WAS NO REASON TO HESITATE. And following that, how the fuck did David manage to kill/incapacitate Walter, change into Walter's clothes, and (I'm assuming) burn off his fucking hand, and still have time to run out and catch the ship out? Even more, why did he cut himself up with the wounds Walter had, when nobody aboard the ship ever saw Walter with those facial scars? When the second guy started puking up the alien baby, why the FUCK didn't someone shoot the fuck out of it? I'm sorry but if I saw my buddy cough up something that start moving, I would've unloaded on it. Why were the newborns essentially invincible, when the more adult version got blown away by a few shots? When the newborn aliens are attacking the people, they get several direct shots on them, doesn't seem to phase them at all. When the adult version kills what's-her-face and David is attempting to befriend it, Captain puts a few rounds in it, which blows it to the floor, then a few more and it's dead.

With all that said, I still liked it. Prometheus 1 and 2 don't even hold a candle to to Alien and Aliens, but they're still decent in their own rights.

[Deleted]

which they may have tested also from that area.

When it comes to this, I think Star Trek is a big failure just because they tend to teleport themselves. Knowing that teleporting would mean that your atoms will be destroyed and copied at some other place and it's your copy that continues living. Not you.

Oh wait, maybe they had some other way to deliver that! Can't figure out how, so must be a shitty science fiction program.

Actually there are no good movies there, because "reasons I can't figure out myself" and because some little silly mistakes if those happen to come by. World of Warcraft and tons of games are totally shit as well because I'm not double standarded, but because of their credibility. Seriously, just plain dumb to waste money and time on cinemas and games

No but seriously seriously, I think people should learn to use the "God of Gaps" method when it comes to such movies. As an atheisist who has been studying this I think it can be profitable when it comes to playing with thoughts. It's really not that hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps

So to make this film make sense, you've got to make yourself stupider. Got it.

[Deleted]

So to make this film make sense, you've got to make yourself stupider. Got it.

No, it has no effect on your intellect. Just your skills of imagination. With time learning that you're the master, not only your actions and emotions, but also your thoughts. What to think or what not to think and finally you can enjoy movies more! Pretty much got to do with your frontal cortex.

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I loved this movie for a few reasons. 1, it brought back the horror that was the first Alien movie. 2, the LORE. Wow, this really filled in a lot of information. 3, Elizabeth Shaw is dead! God I couldn't not only stand just the character, but Noomi Rapace or w/e her name is is such a cunt. Fuck that woman.

There were definitely some stupid/strange moments in the movie. Captain sticking his fucking head in the egg. WTF? I would've seen that room full of those eggs, even not knowing what I know about Aliens, I woulda been NOPE NOPE NOPE and ran the fuck out of there, possibly even shooting the fuck out of David. The fight between Michael Fassbender and Michael Fassbender. I mean Walter and David. Walter is the superior fighter, he was in a position to fucking END David. Walter's loyalty was to his crew, and he knew David was bad. THERE WAS NO REASON TO HESITATE. And following that, how the fuck did David manage to kill/incapacitate Walter, change into Walter's clothes, and (I'm assuming) burn off his fucking hand, and still have time to run out and catch the ship out? Even more, why did he cut himself up with the wounds Walter had, when nobody aboard the ship ever saw Walter with those facial scars? When the second guy started puking up the alien baby, why the FUCK didn't someone shoot the fuck out of it? I'm sorry but if I saw my buddy cough up something that start moving, I would've unloaded on it. Why were the newborns essentially invincible, when the more adult version got blown away by a few shots? When the newborn aliens are attacking the people, they get several direct shots on them, doesn't seem to phase them at all. When the adult version kills what's-her-face and David is attempting to befriend it, Captain puts a few rounds in it, which blows it to the floor, then a few more and it's dead.

With all that said, I still liked it. Prometheus 1 and 2 don't even hold a candle to to Alien and Aliens, but they're still decent in their own rights.

I'm also happy what they did Elizabeth Shaw and just because of the actress. No offence, but after Millenium she really did a great acting job by giving me this hateful stamp against this character and it still had effect on me when Prometheus came out. Even though she was way more nicer etc.

I could imagine that the captain, as a second in command originally had a bit too much faith on the companys androids as they are programmed not to hurt people. Could also only imagine the stress levels after that previous scene. People do dumb shit.

The Fight between fAssbenders is also i knew people would not be happy about. And I mean the scene where David runs to the ship all of the sudden. That's bad rather sloppy editing and due to the discipline given by the producers when it comes to the runtime of the movies it's quite normal. I hate it a lot, but that's why I usually buy the directors cuts as well.

I'd say the aliens growth is so fast that they also restores the wounds at that "age". Just like with human children, but only a zillion time faster.

As for me, I really enjoyed this, way more that Prometheus, Alien 3 and 4. It was loyal enough for the movies to be set on future. Can't wait to see the third one! Glad to see someone also liked the movie.

[AeneasBK]

I dunno. I fell asleep, so I don't think it can have been that good.

Seemed like a bit of a circus after they landed on that planet. Should have replaced the cast with stock horror B-movie college teens, at least the decision-making would have been more in line with expectations.

[Deleted]

Oh yes, and do note that on the earlier Alien movies, the corporation Weyland - Yutani did all the decision making for the crews. Maybe they could have brought such thing more open on Covenant if whatever corporation or land they were terraforming for, if it was the case. If people hates the characters, well then they're living in some weird unrealistic world where all astronauts, scientists and such are somehow perfect.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...ticle-1.414775

[Deleted]

All that complaining and noone mentions how they were lead by a religious guy (Oram), who struggled keeping it together after what happened to the actual captain...

It was stated in the movie that he was declined as the captain. He thought it was because of his faith, but there were probably other issues they had with him, which made themselves seen once he assumed command (lack of empathy, inability to cope with stress, etc...).

PS: Don't go for the "but the FUUUUUTURE" woowoo bullshit line. All the super tech in the world doesn't mean safety precautions get thrown out the window, especially given that direct tests need to be conducted on the surface from multiple locations. There is and never will ve a magic computer that can detect bacteria from space.

We have an ACTUAL scientist here people, beware.
I wonder what the people have been saying before the microscope was invented...?

[Deleted]

Yup. A neuroscientist, to be specific. Not that anyone needs rigorous scientific training to tell that you and Epicuros haven't enough brain cells between you to make a spark ;-)

Going for the throat right off the bat, eh?
So, how about an answer to my question instead.

Food for thought: Smashing ants and checking if they still twitch doesn't exactly make you a neuroscientist.

edit: Don't get me wrong; i'm not saying them going to the planet unprepared was somehow an excusable mistake.
I just find it laughable that someone working in science would find it so easy to dismiss the possibility of technological advancements; especially seeing the advancements we had in the last 100 years.

[Deleted]

Going for the throat right off the bat, eh?
So, how about an answer to my question instead.

Food for thought: Smashing ants and checking if they still twitch doesn't exactly make you a neuroscientist.

edit: Don't get me wrong; i'm not saying them going to the planet unprepared was somehow an excusable mistake.
I just find it laughable that someone working in science would find it so easy to dismiss the possibility of technological advancements; especially seeing the advancements we had in the last 100 years.

Yep. I call it lack of imagination.

As a true and even quite sceptical scientist once said:

"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were, but without it we go nowhere."

― Carl Sagan

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It's not a lack of imagination, it's you being a fragile little pansy and failing to own up to the fact that you liked a movie that everyone else has valid reasons for hating.

Oh, boy you must hate Game of Thrones and tons of other series and movies because you let small unanswered things bother you. I can only imagine how much it sucks to be you while trying to get kicks out of books and all. I'm afraid that even "as a neuroscientist" I must question your capacity to handle your pick of route in education.

Do you even understand what fiction means? Do you know how to play with ideas?

Apparently not... :,)

[Deleted]

Lol, nice try kiddo. Your bait isn't fooling anyone, and it's become more than a little obvious at this point.

So you can't even answer to valid questions. Let me help you a bit: http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=fiction
Keep on calling me a kiddo if it gives your ego a boost. Although it does reveal how weak position you have with such an boring ad hominem(s). I guess I hit the spot then..

[Jastall]

Going for the throat right off the bat, eh?
So, how about an answer to my question instead.

Food for thought: Smashing ants and checking if they still twitch doesn't exactly make you a neuroscientist.

edit: Don't get me wrong; i'm not saying them going to the planet unprepared was somehow an excusable mistake.
I just find it laughable that someone working in science would find it so easy to dismiss the possibility of technological advancements; especially seeing the advancements we had in the last 100 years.

Wouldn't the movie than at least have the decency to point out that such technology exists? There's no indication that it does in the setting. Relying on ''well it's the future, so they must have some supertech that makes the character's idiocy understandable'' isn't very good writing. Between the two explanations of 1) characters being dumb and 2) characters possessing ultra-advanced off-screen technology, given the precedent Prometheus established, I'll opt for the theory that it was just the characters being dumb for plot advancement. Not to mention this chronologically happens before Alien, and Alien does have people explore uncharted planets in suits if memory serves.

And really, the lack of suits is just one example. The movie is choke-full with characters making terrible decisions. I know that a horror movie kinda requires that sort of thing (which is why I'm no fan of them in general), and some of them were understandable, but the stupid piles on and on until you can no longer ignore it.