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  1. #81
    Anybody hurt in that particular case? No.

    But the man opens himself up to a world of hurt should the girl regret her decision, and the law is in place to just give a clear-cut line where it's not any use in saying "but he/she wanted it too!" for the adult. It's to stop adults from taking advantage of young people.

    Trying to argue the case that kids should be open prey to adults as long as the kids say yes because Bonobo chimps? Oh how far MMO-C has fallen...

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    Eh big deal. I am probably on a lot of watch lists already, but I have nothing to worry about because I just question laws and social norms I seldom break them.
    It wasn't meant to be like a "hahahaha take that!" kind of comment, just more of a general warning. Talking about this stuff tends to make people think said person is doing it in real life and is trying to justify it (which isn't exactly unreasonable, if a stranger on the bus just started talking about the moral implications of having sex with underaged people they'd probably get a nasty response too).

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    The bolded part is exactly the problem. The minor is less able to judge that abuse is occurring because they have less understanding of what being in a relationship really means, as well as the fact that they are more easily manipulated by adults.
    The bolded part was but one small fraction of the argument I was making in that post. Even if they are not sure if something is abusive, in a society that talks about personal/sexual interactions, abuse will not remain hidden. Adults can check each others' behaviors. We do it now, in many spheres involving minors.

  4. #84
    Then he should run for the hills and not take the jailbait. And have some standard.

    Kids are so so bungled in the head you could make them believe they were a peanut sometimes...we make them off limits until a certain age for a reason. They can be messed up with and without their consent. And consent can be coerced through grooming and abuse. And those fuckers deserve to be thrown into the piranha dam in the prison...even hardened criminals have beefs to cut with pedos.
    Last edited by Halyon; 2017-05-29 at 09:42 PM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    By law, not by logic, so this whole argument is bogus. The question is damage caused, not whether or not it's lawful.
    Both by law and logic. An underaged person's brain has not fully developed, and they are thus incapable of always making proper decisions. Hell, if you want to go by logic, I still say people 18-22 aren't fully capable of this either, as they too still have developing brains.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    The bolded part was but one small fraction of the argument I was making in that post. Even if they are not sure if something is abusive, in a society that talks about personal/sexual interactions, abuse will not remain hidden. Adults can check each others' behaviors. We do it now, in many spheres involving minors.
    And your suggestion is betting the mental health of a lot of potential victims on the fact that our society is somehow going to evolve into a place where we can talk openly about sex AND said openness is going to combat any potential damage done.

    It's a very poor bet.

  7. #87
    I am Murloc! Phookah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    Actually, it's been acceptable in many societies throughout history, some of which are contemporary. Our views here are descended from relatively recent puritan-era religious mores. These views are not substantially different from our bigotry against women and sexual or ethnic minorities. It's become an ideological pariah. Something that everyone goes to when they want to string something up as raucously immoral.

    But biology does not agree with us. Look at how we evolved. Look at how other apes act. Bonobos use sexual pleasure to calm their children. Are they scarred for life? No; it's a normal social interaction for them.
    "Been" and "Was" being the key terms here. It's not considered okay by virtually any first world country anymore, even in countries where said sexual assaults are frequent it's still considered immoral.

    We aren't bonobo's. We don't have bonobo's culture. We don't touch children.

    Also not sure how a morality argument is supposed to apply to an animal in the first place.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorcanna View Post
    Anybody hurt in that particular case? No.

    But the man opens himself up to a world of hurt should the girl regret her decision, and the law is in place to just give a clear-cut line where it's not any use in saying "but he/she wanted it too!" for the adult. It's to stop adults from taking advantage of young people.
    I never understood this argument. When I was younger, I was in a relationship with someone 7 years older than me, for 2 years. I had basically all of the power in that relationship, for a few reasons: one, I could leave whenever I wanted to, and as the object of desire my basis for remaining in the relationship did not involve attraction, but rather behaviors and stability. Two, our culture hates it when older people are in relationships with younger people for some shitty reason, so if anything went wrong I would have the full support of everyone around me. In short, I couldn't be in the wrong, and that gave me a significant amount of power.

    If anything, it's the younger person that's taking advantage of the older one. The older one gets some eye candy and maybe fulfills their desire to provide and protect, while resources and knowledge are transferred to the younger one.

    Trying to argue the case that kids should be open prey to adults as long as the kids say yes because Bonobo chimps? Oh how far MMO-C has fallen...
    Just going to point out that this isn't a counterargument, and my point remains valid. It's simply one line of evidence that, in isolation, may not be compelling but in combination with other lines of evidence forms a strong front.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Armakus View Post
    Both by law and logic. An underaged person's brain has not fully developed, and they are thus incapable of always making proper decisions. Hell, if you want to go by logic, I still say people 18-22 aren't fully capable of this either, as they too still have developing brains.
    Brains don't stop developing until 30, so we might as well wait until then to allow people to give consent.

    Oh wait, that's a terrible argument.

    That an underaged individual has an underdeveloped brain is all the more reason to support relations with older individuals. They will have more guidance and protection, instead of getting pregnant at 16/getting someone pregnant at 16 and then having their lives ruined.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    I am really, really surprised at the sheer number of people who try to rationalize kid diddling ITT. Is this a NAMBLA board?
    Yeah I could never moderate this forum...
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    aH yes, the Y chromosome, noted summoner of rape demons from the misogyny dimension.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Underage people can't consent so the whole premise is bogus
    Personally I think there is a fundamental difference between what the law deems as consent and what is actual consent. This idea that a 17 year old is unable to control their actions because they are "child" in the eyes of the law is pretty damn weak.

    However, I will say that I don't have a problem with 18 being the 'age the law deems you an adult'. I just find it silly that, in a world where 14 year olds can be tried in a court of law as an adult, we still have this idea that maturity rate must be universal and not what it really is, staggered.
    There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
    Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
    Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
    If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    And your suggestion is betting the mental health of a lot of potential victims on the fact that our society is somehow going to evolve into a place where we can talk openly about sex AND said openness is going to combat any potential damage done.

    It's a very poor bet.
    I was simply defining a direction. I was not suggesting that we legalize these behaviors tomorrow. Indeed, I would be against that proposition.

    But in order to get to a place where we can have more openness, and young people can benefit from the mentorship and guidance of older people, we need to have the discussion of cost, risk, and benefit.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzl View Post
    I never understood this argument. When I was younger, I was in a relationship with someone 7 years older than me, for 2 years. I had basically all of the power in that relationship, for a few reasons: one, I could leave whenever I wanted to, and as the object of desire my basis for remaining in the relationship did not involve attraction, but rather behaviors and stability. Two, our culture hates it when older people are in relationships with younger people for some shitty reason, so if anything went wrong I would have the full support of everyone around me. In short, I couldn't be in the wrong, and that gave me a significant amount of power.

    If anything, it's the younger person that's taking advantage of the older one. The older one gets some eye candy and maybe fulfills their desire to provide and protect, while resources and knowledge are transferred to the younger one.



    Just going to point out that this isn't a counterargument, and my point remains valid. It's simply one line of evidence that, in isolation, may not be compelling but in combination with other lines of evidence forms a strong front.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Brains don't stop developing until 30, so we might as well wait until then to allow people to give consent.

    Oh wait, that's a terrible argument.

    That an underaged individual has an underdeveloped brain is all the more reason to support relations with older individuals. They will have more guidance and protection, instead of getting pregnant at 16/getting someone pregnant at 16 and then having their lives ruined.
    Clearly, your sample size of exactly "1" was enough for you to draw conclusions around. Unfortunately, there are many out there less fortunate than you, and it's sad that you're okay with people who didn't have the same experience as you to have, in many cases, their entire life and sense of "normalcy" in relationships impacted in a very adverse manner.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    If an underage girl pursued an older male and she initiated sex with him and they both consented, enjoyed it, and she was not traumatized by the experience, then is it still wrong, is anyone really hurt, or is there even a victim at all? The same for an underage male pursuing an older female?
    The problem with this is that suddenly every stat rape defendant now uses the "She came on to me" defense...whether it's true or not.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    Can't consent according to whom? Are you telling me teenagers can consent to have sex with similar aged teenagers, but not with adults? Sounds like pretty shotty reasoning to me.
    No, they can't consent at all. Even with other teenagers, they aren't legally consenting. The law of consent dictates the age at which an individual can consent. Anything before that, they are not consenting, no matter who it's with. Stop preying on children.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phookah View Post
    "Been" and "Was" being the key terms here. It's not considered okay by virtually any first world country anymore, even in countries where said sexual assaults are frequent it's still considered immoral.

    We aren't bonobo's. We don't have bonobo's culture. We don't touch children.

    Also not sure how a morality argument is supposed to apply to an animal in the first place.
    And virtually every first world country is a Christian majority nation - though that's changing as well. There was a time when the most developed nations in the world accepted these behaviors. And that didn't change because of intellectual enlightenment - it changed because of the dark ages and new-wave Christian theology.

    You're right that we aren't bonobos, though. Bonobos are far more peaceful and loving than humans are. We could learn something from them.

    And, if human evolution is anything to go by, we have. Our hairless bodies, large eyes, weak muscles, underdeveloped jaws - neoteny in humans is everywhere. It was actively selected for. And in many cases, neotenous traits are considered sexually attractive. Unless you're into bears.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    Underage people can't consent so the whole premise is bogus
    The whole thread really did end right here. They can't consent and often don't have the same reasoning ability as the adult in this situation. Therefore it's the adults responsibility to control the situation and do the right thing.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    Clearly, your sample size of exactly "1" was enough for you to draw conclusions around. Unfortunately, there are many out there less fortunate than you, and it's sad that you're okay with people who didn't have the same experience as you to have, in many cases, their entire life and sense of "normalcy" in relationships impacted in a very adverse manner.
    Exactly.

    Glad to see that most people on here are NOT positive towards this notion of opening up for children to be sexually abused by men/women more mentally mature than themselves and those adults also being protected by "but the kid wanted it as much as I did!"-sentiments...


    I've witnessed first-hand what sexual abuse does to children once the grooming (brainwashing) subsides.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torgent View Post
    No, they can't consent at all. Even with other teenagers, they aren't legally consenting. The law of consent dictates the age at which an individual can consent. Anything before that, they are not consenting, no matter who it's with. Stop preying on children.
    That's not entirely how law pertaining to adults and children work. Ted Cruz... Is that you?
    There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
    Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
    Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
    If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stretchie View Post
    The whole thread really did end right here. They can't consent and often don't have the same reasoning ability as the adult in this situation. Therefore it's the adults responsibility to control the situation and do the right thing.
    "But like, she was super mature, officer and she told me she wanted me. What else could I do?!" - OP when he gets caught

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stretchie View Post
    The whole thread really did end right here. They can't consent and often don't have the same reasoning ability as the adult in this situation. Therefore it's the adults responsibility to control the situation and do the right thing.
    Objectively, can you tell me what the 'right' thing is, without relying on your own prejudices and subjectivity? I'm really curious, as there seem to be so many 'staunchly' in this cannot consent camp that I'm starting to wonder if they magically turned the knob in their brains at 18 to 'adult'.
    There are no worse scum in this world than fascists, rebels and political hypocrites.
    Donald Trump is only like Hitler because of the fact he's losing this war on all fronts.
    Apparently condemning a fascist ideology is the same as being fascist. And who the fuck are you to say I can't be fascist against fascist ideologies?
    If merit was the only dividing factor in the human race, then everyone on Earth would be pretty damn equal.

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