If an Underage Girl Pursued an Older Male?

[Underverse]

Not "our culture", the people whom prey upon children and subject them to sexual relations for which the children are not ready in any shape or form.

We empower the children by making it clear that it's not OK to prey upon them. I'm starting to seriously worry about you.

No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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This thread isn't about mentoring relationships....it's about people who want to have sex with children. Children can have mentors all they want, there's no mentor-related benefit from putting body parts inside each other (or any variation of sexual acts).

Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.

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I love when people say bonobos are peaceful. I've studied them. They aren't. The form entire war coalitions on the basis of who fucked whom. More peaceful than other simian species, like chimps? Certainly. But definitely still aggressive, and hypersexual to an unproductive degree.

I said bonobos are far more peaceful than humans. I'm glad you agree with me.

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I am interested in having a logical debate. You aren't therefor there is no debating with you. Did you not read my post?

I'm not? Please. Shoo.

[Torgent]

No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.

Aaaand with that, hopefully the police arrive at your door soon and bar you from ever "mentoring" any children. What you're saying is disgusting. Mentoring relationships are NEVER sexual. That undermines the mentoring aspect of anything. No matter what the mentor is trying to teach (apart from sex), sex adds nothing to it.

[Zeta333]

Well think the reverse as well. Why would the age of consent law be in place? The typical answer, is because we don't have faith in people under a certain age to take on the responsibilities and precaution necessary to make such an action be non-problematic in any way. As well as the notion that they can be quite easily manipulated or pressured into allowing the action to happen, and not being capable of admitting they didn't want to do so.

i dont have faith in people above the age of consent to make correct choices, to be fair.

[Darththeo]

I'm not? Please. Shoo.

Nah, don't want to. Your "logic" is too fun to see. Given that you ignored half my point, I can't see how you think you are logically debating anything.

[Queen of Hamsters]

No, it's the culture - mostly. Not entirely. We are the ones who take away their agency and victimize them and condemn their behaviors, even if they were not responsible for them. How do you think that feels, to a minor? To be part of something so vehemently despised by nearly all of society?

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Mentoring relationships can be sexual. It's a pair bonding activity that secures resources for the minor party.

So now you're arguing that viewing sexual abuse of children as deplorable is equal to labeling the children as deplorable?

Holy shit...

[Deleted]

i dont have faith in people above the age of consent to make correct choices, to be fair.

I'd say that is somewhat fair as well, but at some point we would be neglecting basic human freedoms.

[Underverse]

Aaaand with that, hopefully the police arrive at your door soon and bar you from ever "mentoring" any children. What you're saying is disgusting. Mentoring relationships are NEVER sexual. That undermines the mentoring aspect of anything. No matter what the mentor is trying to teach (apart from sex), sex adds nothing to it.

I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

So no, you're dead wrong, and far out of your element.

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Nah, don't want to. Your "logic" is too fun to see. Given that you ignored half my point, I can't see how you think you are logically debating anything.

Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.

[LoLcano]

There is a little thing called LAW . you break it you get your ass thrown in jail or pay fine . no amount of IF AND MAY gonna change that.

[Xargoth6634]

If there's grass on the field, play ball, right?

[Darththeo]

Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.

Yes, I read them, but you didn't answer logically.

[Torgent]

I was in a sexual mentoring relationship with someone significantly older then me. It worked well for me, gave me an edge over my peers, and is party responsible for my success. I'm still good friends with the guy, and though I am not interested in a sexual relationship with him any more he still provides me with guidance. I would not have been able to obtain all of the knowledge and resources I did without the relationship being sexual; it wouldn't have been worth it for him, and I didn't mind/enjoyed it after a few times.

So no, you're dead wrong, and far out of your element.

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Sorry, it's just that you're fielding arguments that other people have already fielded multiple times in this thread, and I've written responses to them. If you're interested, go back and read those responses.

I'm sorry that you were statutorily raped as child. I believe you need to seek counseling so that you don't harm other children.

Also within your post you said "I didn't mind it/enjoyed it AFTER A FEW TIMES." Meaning for the first few, you didn't enjoy it and thus were being harmed....seriously seek help, you're damaged.

[Yvaelle]

The US just has issues with the legal age of consent laws. Compared to virtually any other country on earth, the US has the oldest ages of consent. In most other developed countries, teen consent is dealt with by age brackets, so that as example, two 13 year olds can have sex, but a 13 year old cannot have sex with a 25 year old, etc. Typically the final age of consent is broader too, it might be the case that a 15 year old can consent to a partner of any age, etc.

Then we tack on additional concerns about the nature of the relationship, an 18 year old having sex with their coach might not be illegal, but might be unethical for the coach and could result in them being fired, but not jailed, etc. The same for professors, work relationships with superiors, etc.

Thou shalt not have sex before the age of 18, or however you guys phrase it, is just dumb.

[Lady Dragonheart]

The definition of charges involving sex with someone that is underage means that they are not able to give consent in any way.

[Underverse]

So now you're arguing that viewing sexual abuse of children as deplorable is equal to labeling the children as deplorable?

Holy shit...

'Holy shit' is a great rebuttal, so let me elaborate.

First, sexual interactions are not sexual abuse except by law. Abuse requires damage. There is nothing inherently damaging about engaging in sexual relations with other humans of any age. There are circumstances under which any sexual interaction can become abusive. But these circumstances are not innate to the interaction.

Second, I would argue that we should condemn sexual abuse to a severe degree. And by abuse, I mean damaging sexual interactions. This is and should be consistent with our condemnation of other sexual abuses such as rape.

Third, viewing a sexual interaction as deplorable negatively impacts the participants in that interaction. This is no different from other types of sexual interactions. Ask yourself this: is labeling gay anal sex as deplorable equivalent to labeling gay people as deplorable? No, not quite; that's a strawman argument because it takes the same form as your comparison. But you are still damaging a gay person by saying that the sexual acts they engage in are deplorable. I think this should all be very straightforward.

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So uhm. Yeah. This person just admitted to being in an abusive sexual relationship and is advocating for the proliferation of such relationships. Insert joke about Milo here while someone alerts the mods please.

It wasn't abusive. I had plenty of power in the relationship, it just came from other places, such as sex appeal and social pressure.

[Underverse]

I'm sorry that you were statutorily raped as child. I believe you need to seek counseling so that you don't harm other children.

Also within your post you said "I didn't mind it/enjoyed it AFTER A FEW TIMES." Meaning for the first few, you didn't enjoy it and thus were being harmed....seriously seek help, you're damaged.

See, this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. OTHER PEOPLE TAKE NOTE. You are victimizing me when I don't see myself as a victim. You are telling me that I am damaged when I am more whole than the vast majority of other people. You are saying that I was raped when I consented. THIS is the damage I was talking about coming from our culture. THIS is where the psychological damage comes from. People like you.

And I don't blame you for it. I'm just asking you to reconsider. You are wrong here. You can't tell me how to feel. And if you tell a child this, understand that you are breaking them. I can resist these powerful cultural influences because I stopped caring what other people think a long time ago. But not everyone has this luxury.

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Nope. Not engaging you. You've been reported and I sincerely hope you get the counseling you need.

Reported for what now? Making a sound logical argument? Yeah, a crime on these boards, I suppose.

[Torgent]

See, this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. OTHER PEOPLE TAKE NOTE. You are victimizing me when I don't see myself as a victim. You are telling me that I am damaged when I am more whole than the vast majority of other people. You are saying that I was raped when I consented. THIS is the damage I was talking about coming from our culture. THIS is where the psychological damage comes from. People like you.

And I don't blame you for it. I'm just asking you to reconsider. You are wrong here. You can't tell me how to feel. And if you tell a child this, understand that you are breaking them. I can resist these powerful cultural influences because I stopped caring what other people think a long time ago. But not everyone has this luxury.

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Reported for what now? Making a sound logical argument? Yeah, a crime on these boards, I suppose.

You didn't consent, you were underage. You were manipulated into believing that this was a beneficial relationship, when in fact, you were raped. You're damaged in that you now believe this to be normal behavior, so seek help so that you don't hurt a child. Just because you don't see yourself as a victim doesn't mean you're not one. Many victims of abuse don't identify as victims, they make excuses for it, say that the other person wasn't wrong, etc. This doesn't make it true. Please, become educated and seek counseling. I'm done with you. Hoping for the best.

[Queen of Hamsters]

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It wasn't abusive. .

And we're down to the "but the gays!"-argument. You're following all the correct procedures here, buddy.

[Darththeo]

See, this is exactly the shit I'm talking about. OTHER PEOPLE TAKE NOTE. You are victimizing me when I don't see myself as a victim. You are telling me that I am damaged when I am more whole than the vast majority of other people. You are saying that I was raped when I consented. THIS is the damage I was talking about coming from our culture. THIS is where the psychological damage comes from. People like you.

And I don't blame you for it. I'm just asking you to reconsider. You are wrong here. You can't tell me how to feel. And if you tell a child this, understand that you are breaking them. I can resist these powerful cultural influences because I stopped caring what other people think a long time ago. But not everyone has this luxury.

Let's say a person came into my house and stole something, but I didn't care because it meant little to me and well I wanted to get rid of it anyway so in my view the person did me a favor. Would another person be wrong to say I was a victim of a break in and robbery?

[Underverse]

You didn't consent, you were underage. You were manipulated into believing that this was a beneficial relationship, when in fact, you were raped. You're damaged in that you now believe this to be normal behavior, so seek help so that you don't hurt a child. Just because you don't see yourself as a victim doesn't mean you're not one. Many victims of abuse don't identify as victims, they make excuses for it, say that the other person wasn't wrong, etc. This doesn't make it true. Please, become educated and seek counseling. I'm done with you. Hoping for the best.

I'm probably more educated than you are, and I will probably be more successful too because of this mentorship relationship that I had.

I was not manipulated into anything. Manipulation implies damage. I was not damaged, no matter how many times you tell me that I was. I was not raped, and you demanding that I was does not change that.

I only hope that other people can learn from your example, and not pursue the same strategy. But I'm also glad that you've provided a perfect example of why society is largely to blame for the psychological damage caused by these kinds of relationships.

[Underverse]

For advocating sex crimes. Since you needed that spelled out for you. Putting you on ignore and letting the mods handle you from here.

I'm not advocating anything. I didn't tell anyone to do anything. You're stretching here.