Why do Healers have to be Immortal 1v1?

[Nero Stormchester]

If a DPS vs. DPS results in a fair chance that either DPS can kill the other, that's fair and balanced.

If a DPS vs. Healer results in no chance that either one kills the other, that's fair and balanced.

If DPS vs. Healer always resulted in the DPS winning...waddafuck?

And what do you call a healer winning against DPS?

[Killadrix]

I always chuckle when DPS are like "when it's a healer I shouldn't even bother because I know I can't kill them OMGOMGOMG BLIZZARD DO SOMETHING", yet it's okay for DPS to believe that healers should just live in fear of any other non-healer...

[Schattenlied]

I always chuckle when DPS are like "when it's a healer I shouldn't even bother because I know I can't kill them OMGOMGOMG BLIZZARD DO SOMETHING", yet it's okay for DPS to believe that healers should just live in fear of any other non-healer...

They should be, healers are force multipliers, force multipliers should require protection... Force multipliers that don't require protection are overpowered.

[daenerys]

If a healer can't out heal even a single dps, than healers are pointless, and you're better off with an additional dps on your team. All rated arena and RBG teams would just be all dps, and any healer in a pug BG would just be scorned, and told to go dps or leave.

[Schattenlied]

If a healer can't out heal even a single dps, than healers are pointless, and you're better off with an additional dps on your team. All rated arena and RBG teams would just be all dps, and any healer in a pug BG would just be scorned, and told to go dps or leave.

Again, healers can't selfheal more than a DPS will damage them in MOBAs, but they are still arguably the single most important role in those games, why wouldn't the same be true here? Force multipliers should require protection.

[Gemini Soul]

No, the point of being a healer is to keep your DPS alive by HEALING THEM. The DPS are then supposed to keep the healer alive by peeling for them and killing the people attacking them.

So you say I'm wrong when i say healer is to keep dps specs alive by drawing focus, healing them is obviously given as its their role and shouldn't have to be said. But you say DPS are supposed to keep the healer alive by peeling off them, then your wrong too because that is the exact same thing. Except from a DPS PoV vs a Healer PoV either way the enemy is attacking the healer and not the dps like i said.

[PassingBy]

Healers should be able to keep themselves up against one target.
Hell they should be able to keep someone else up against 2-3 foes for a period of time.

But they should run out of mana while doing so.
The more incoming damage - the more mana spent.

[Schattenlied]

So you say I'm wrong when i say healer is to keep dps specs alive by drawing focus, healing them is obviously given as its their role and shouldn't have to be said. But you say DPS are supposed to keep the healer alive by peeling off them, then your wrong too because that is the exact same thing. Except from a DPS PoV vs a Healer PoV either way the enemy is attacking the healer and not the dps like i said.

Your POINT as a healer is to heal, not draw attention to yourself, when you happen to draw attention to yourself it's the DPS and Tank's job to make attacking you not optimal by peeling, so that the enemy goes back to hitting the DPS/Tank.

Drawing focus is a possible consequence of your actions, a consequence from which you should need protection... It is not your point for being there.

[Gemini Soul]

Your POINT as a healer is to heal, not draw attention to yourself, when you happen to draw attention to yourself it's the DPS and Tank's job to make attacking you not optimal by peeling, so that the enemy goes back to hitting the DPS/Tank.

Drawing focus is a possible consequence of your actions, a consequence from which you should need protection... It is not your point for being there.

Your proving my point, yet you keep denying it by claiming Apples/Oranges when in fact were both talking about apples. Since you can't grasp that I'm done with you.

[Schattenlied]

Your proving my point, yet you keep denying it by claiming Apples/Oranges when in fact were both talking about apples. Since you can't grasp that I'm done with you.

No, I'm not, you are claiming that your purpose for existing as a healer is to draw attention to yourself, and that is 100% false. Quit being fucking obtuse.

We are NOT talking about the same thing. You are acting like drawing focus is your goal and it ISNT. YOU fail to grasp that they are not the same thing, which is the entire point of my previous post.

You said your "point" is to draw focus, you said it as justification for why you should be borderline invincible

I'm saying you SHOULDN'T be borderline invincible because drawing focus ISN'T your point, it's a CONSEQUENCE for which you should REQUIRE the protection of allies to survive.


Two very, VERY different things.

[Sansnom]

If you can kill someone but someone cannot kill you and vice versa, that is in no way even/fair/balanced. Like - which logic do you apply here? Imagine two vehicles rushing towards each other and one is a regular car and other is tank. Which one will remain with less damage? I'm talking about 1v1 situations.

No it is not. I should be been more specific and direct with my answer. It was not a general answer but a specific question back to the poster. He/she said if was not fair that it was impossible to kill a healer one on one. If it was possible, then the DPS would probably always win since the DPS of a healer would be much lower.

Hence my rhetorical question as an answer.

[Killadrix]

They should be, healers are force multipliers, force multipliers should require protection... Force multipliers that don't require protection are overpowered.

So let me get this straight: Tanks and DPS should not require any coordination from teammates AT ALL yet my whole existence is pinned on the benevolence of other players in an environment which rewards people for just chimping out tunnel damage?

Okay, I see why you're confused.

[Anastacy]

Sure it is. That's the whole point of being a healer in PvP. You don't go to a competitive game with healers and expect them to 1v1 dps heros. Sure Zenyatta can kill a Genji if the skill gap is wide enough, but it's a lot of work for the Zen and a lot of fuck ups for the Genji. Why should WoW be any different? If you're facing a 1v1 with a DPS as a healer then you dun goofed and should die for it. As a healer, you should always be near somebody anyway.

So...if a healer is "always near somebody", then it's either 2 vs. 1, or 2 vs. 2.

In the first, it's an unfair fight to begin with, due to the number disparity.

In the second, it's really not much different than a 1 v 1 with a healer. You're expecting the DPS with-the-healer to be able to CC and DPS two other DPS hard enough, so that they can't just zerg the healer (since, y'know, if a solo DPS'er can always win against a healer, should totally be NP for 2 DPS to take down a healer). Which results in the DPS-with-the-healer either being an OP class that can do this, or an UP class that can't.

And what do you call a healer winning against DPS?

I haven't made much in the way of commenting on how things are.

But since you're unable to pick it up...if a healer can consistently win against a DPS in a 1v1, then that's not balanced.

[Schattenlied]

So let me get this straight: Tanks and DPS should not require any coordination from teammates AT ALL yet my whole existence is pinned on the benevolence of other players.

Yes, because you are a force multiplier, and they are not, that's how supports work in every other game, that's how they should work in this one.

Do you understand the definition of force multiplier? you should look it up.

[m4xc4v413r4]

Blame todays infinite mana.

[Schattenlied]

Blame todays infinite mana.

This is what is almost exclusively to blame, yes... Healers used to actually have some mana concerns back in the day in PvP... Especially if a Hunter(Viper Sting), Warlock(Drain Mana) or SPriest (Mana Burn) was present on the opposing team. Now it's like mana isn't even a thing for them anymore unless they are in a consistent teamfight for 10 minutes straight.

[ArMeD_SuRvIvOr]

IMO, a healer should only be able to delay their own death, rather than prevent it completely 1v1. For example:

1v1: it should take a long ass time for a DPS to kill a healer.

2v1: Healer should be taking a beating now, and be dying a bit faster than in 1v1.

3v1: Healer should be taking quite the punishment, and be dying much quicker than 2v1.

4v1: Healer should die in 10 seconds.

5v1: Healer globaled, almost.

The above would only be possible if mana isn't as infinite as it is now. It's been infinite (before someone complains, I say infinite in a figurative way, not literally) since at least Cata/MoP. Mana regen is VERY high these days, and healers can regen it easily by pillar humping, running away (druids with blink, eh) and such.

I don't think healers should ever be immortal 1v1, nor 2v1. A healer's job shouldn't be to keep people up almost indefinitely; they should delay people's deaths.

[Nero Stormchester]

So...if a healer is "always near somebody", then it's either 2 vs. 1, or 2 vs. 2.

In the first, it's an unfair fight to begin with, due to the number disparity.

In the second, it's really not much different than a 1 v 1 with a healer. You're expecting the DPS with-the-healer to be able to CC and DPS two other DPS hard enough, so that they can't just zerg the healer (since, y'know, if a solo DPS'er can always win against a healer, should totally be NP for 2 DPS to take down a healer). Which results in the DPS-with-the-healer either being an OP class that can do this, or an UP class that can't.



I haven't made much in the way of commenting on how things are.

But since you're unable to pick it up...if a healer can consistently win against a DPS in a 1v1, then that's not balanced.

Ta-da. Aka what happens now if both players are skilled.

[Hctaz]

So...if a healer is "always near somebody", then it's either 2 vs. 1, or 2 vs. 2.

In the first, it's an unfair fight to begin with, due to the number disparity.

In the second, it's really not much different than a 1 v 1 with a healer. You're expecting the DPS with-the-healer to be able to CC and DPS two other DPS hard enough, so that they can't just zerg the healer (since, y'know, if a solo DPS'er can always win against a healer, should totally be NP for 2 DPS to take down a healer). Which results in the DPS-with-the-healer either being an OP class that can do this, or an UP class that can't.

No, pretty much every class could do this. I'm guessing you haven't played Arena in past expansions then. I remember doing geared 2s with my priest friend back in late Wrath. There were plenty of Rogue/Warrior, Warrior/Hunter, Rogue/Hunter comps. The entire strategy for them was to CC me and kill the healer before my 4 second stun broke. Our strategy was to make sure I broke CC at an optimal time in order to get them with Death grip (which back then one of the set bonuses was that it could be used twice within 3 seconds before incurring the CD so I could literally grip both dps off of him: or if the warrior was the wrecking ball, grip him once just far enough for him to be in charge range and grip him again after he charges back in). Of course healers should have CC as well. Cyclone, Psychic Scream, stuns, slow, etc. is all something that a PvP healer should be familiar with.

The point isn't that the healer is screwed. Even in Overwatch the healers have tools to peel themselves. Lucio can speed boost himself away, Mercy can fly to an ally, Ana has sleep dart, damage, and her grenade, Zen just kinda has damage. But the point is that a lot of healers don't actually kill you themselves, they just CC or run until somebody else backs them up. This is the way healing USED to be but now healers have basically infinite mana and they can out heal your damage while whittling you down until YOU'RE forced to run which doesn't make any goddamn sense.

[plantation]

Once upon a time they would run out of mana for casting offensive spells or for spam healing.