Sylvanas Knowingly Damns Her Rangers?

[Magnagarde]

Dialogue taken from Darkranger Velonara at the Hunter's Lodge (if you buy 13 roses from the "Death Hunter" nearby)

Why on earth would they listen to her if she yanked them out of a happy afterlife and they know they go to an abyss if they die?

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

This is what the Forsaken have always been about and this is how they have always behaved. They're zealous in their loyalty to Sylvanas, primarily because they know they are not welcome anywhere else. Undercity is the only place that will have them for what they are and after everything they've done, there is no turning back nor can they expect to be pardoned by those they've wronged in Sylvanas' name over all these years.

Being a Forsaken character means they're damned untill they're done undone. Many of them express relief when being killed near Greywatch in Stormheim. The rest are overly zealous, throwing the dark lady tantrum around, even though they literally owe her nothing as she is an undead high elf that came from up North and was left there by Arthas.

Anyhow, it is just another drop in the sea of malicious things her character went through with. Nothing surprising, really.

[Teleros]

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

Didn't you know? Biological warfare, chemical weapons, experimenting on unwilling live subjects - they're not evil. They're edgy.

Undead
The undead are former mortals who have died and become trapped between life and death. These tragic beings derive their power from the necromantic energies that pervade the universe. Most undead are driven by vengeance and hatred to destroy the one thing they can never have again: life.

[Dialout]

Regardless of whatever potential grudges any of her people hold against her, NONE of them would be around as they are, if not for her. That said, it is a terrible fate to be reborn undead, but she built a society so as to keep them from being mindlessly controlled by the Lich King.

If you were Forsaken, what would you rather?

Slavery via someone intent on wiping out all of the living races, unable to make choices for yourself regardless of whether you agree or disagree with orders?

"Slavery" via a Queen who built a small empire intent on getting back at the one who would have made you a mindless tool for war--and perhaps other less selfish reasons--who gave you free will albeit without much emotional weight, and the potential to strike vengeance upon those who slew you and those you loved?

Or dead. With no chance of anything. No further honor or victory or vengeance or peace of mind against that which you may have left undone in your lifetime (alive)?

Were you given a sound choice of the 3, before ending entirely, I feel most would choose Sylvanas' lead and a chance to succeed where they may have failed. Anybody who might choose to remain dead probably had a fulfilling life.

[Skytotem]

This is what the Forsaken have always been about and this is how they have always behaved. They're zealous in their loyalty to Sylvanas, primarily because they know they are not welcome anywhere else. Undercity is the only place that will have them for what they are and after everything they've done, there is no turning back nor can they expect to be pardoned by those they've wronged in Sylvanas' name over all these years.

Being a Forsaken character means they're damned untill they're done undone. Many of them express relief when being killed near Greywatch in Stormheim. The rest are overly zealous, throwing the dark lady tantrum around, even though they literally owe her nothing as she is an undead high elf that came from up North and was left there by Arthas.

Anyhow, it is just another drop in the sea of malicious things her character went through with. Nothing surprising, really.

Yeah all of that is partially-true but that doesn't make it good or compelling writing. Moreover them not being welcome anywhere else and being loyal to her only really makes sense if she's not the one who raised them. If they're unhappy then they ought to just off themselves.

In Vanilla the whole bit for the Forsaken was that they had a lot of willpower to tear loose of the Lich King's control, and wanted revenge. And in the new starting zone the ones that don't want to be alive either go nuts or off themselves right away. I'm annoyed that they decided to basically make the Forsaken the scourge instead of making them folks that are dead but are alive out of spite, or vengeance, willingly, and instead don't seem to mind that Sylvanas distrubed their eternal rest.

Sylvanas ought to ascend so she can get out of the Forsaken story, have some followers that are shadowpriests and stick with the Banshees/Darkrangers/Val'kyr and let the rest of the forsaken embrace the frankenstein vibe and start making new Forsaken that way. Brains and body parts grown in vats and such.

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Regardless of whatever potential grudges any of her people hold against her, NONE of them would be around as they are, if not for her. That said, it is a terrible fate to be reborn undead, but she built a society so as to keep them from being mindlessly controlled by the Lich King.

The whole point is that this Dark Ranger wasn't a member of the scourge that got freed, she was dead and at peace and got yanked out of a pleasant afterlife.

[Dialout]

Yeah all of that is partially-true but that doesn't make it good or compelling writing. Moreover them not being welcome anywhere else and being loyal to her only really makes sense if she's not the one who raised them. If they're unhappy then they ought to just off themselves.

In Vanilla the whole bit for the Forsaken was that they had a lot of willpower to tear loose of the Lich King's control, and wanted revenge. And in the new starting zone the ones that don't want to be alive either go nuts or off themselves right away. I'm annoyed that they decided to basically make the Forsaken the scourge instead of making them folks that are dead but are alive out of spite, or vengeance, willingly, and instead don't seem to mind that Sylvanas distrubed their eternal rest.

Sylvanas ought to ascend so she can get out of the Forsaken story, have some followers that are shadowpriests and stick with the Banshees/Darkrangers/Val'kyr and let the rest of the forsaken embrace the frankenstein vibe and start making new Forsaken that way. Brains and body parts grown in vats and such.

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The whole point is that this Dark Ranger wasn't a member of the scourge that got freed, she was dead and at peace and got yanked out of a pleasant afterlife.

Right and my point was that she made a decision based on the hand she was dealt for selfish reasons and potentially non-selfish reasons. That decision was to reclaim Lordaeron with an army of those who would have otherwise been claimed by the Koch King. So while they were risen against their will (re. Dead people have no will), many would thank her while many might begrudge her. Aka repeat everything I initially wrote.

[Aucald]

I'd imagine Velonara was one of the High Elven Banshees created by Sylvanas under Arthas' direction, or least when she unwillingly served him. It would explain why she was offered no choice in the question of her return, and if Sylvanas raised her she would see Sylvanas as the direct agent of her torment and not the Lich King, per se. That's only speculation on my part, though; we'd have to know more about Velonara and how she was raised to get a complete picture.

[Skytotem]

Right and my point was that she made a decision based on the hand she was dealt for selfish reasons and potentially non-selfish reasons. That decision was to reclaim Lordaeron with an army of those who would have otherwise been claimed by the Koch King. So while they were risen against their will (re. Dead people have no will), many would thank her while many might begrudge her. Aka repeat everything I initially wrote.

This still doesn't fix that Blizz hasn't given the Forsaken any direction of their own, aside from worshipping Sylvanas, after Arthas's death.

[Magnagarde]

Yeah all of that is partially-true but that doesn't make it good or compelling writing. Moreover them not being welcome anywhere else and being loyal to her only really makes sense if she's not the one who raised them. If they're unhappy then they ought to just off themselves.

In Vanilla the whole bit for the Forsaken was that they had a lot of willpower to tear loose of the Lich King's control, and wanted revenge. And in the new starting zone the ones that don't want to be alive either go nuts or off themselves right away. I'm annoyed that they decided to basically make the Forsaken the scourge instead of making them folks that are dead but are alive out of spite, or vengeance, willingly, and instead don't seem to mind that Sylvanas distrubed their eternal rest.

Sylvanas ought to ascend so she can get out of the Forsaken story, have some followers that are shadowpriests and stick with the Banshees/Darkrangers/Val'kyr and let the rest of the forsaken embrace the frankenstein vibe and start making new Forsaken that way. Brains and body parts grown in vats and such.

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The whole point is that this Dark Ranger wasn't a member of the scourge that got freed, she was dead and at peace and got yanked out of a pleasant afterlife.

I know. It doesn't make any sense that anyone raised from the grave would join her too, unless we're speaking of an extremely small minority of people who've probably been twisted during their lifetime or were outright psychos. Still, they went through with it in Cataclysm.

The key element is that her having them raised is not the same as Arthas' raising as Arthas creates a master - servant connection that the undead blindly follow by hearing his whispers and command. This is why all of them following her the way they are is completely senseless.

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This still doesn't fix that Blizz hasn't given the Forsaken any direction of their own, aside from worshipping Sylvanas, after Arthas's death.

That is literally all they're there for. To prevent her from getting permanently killed. Her character aknowledges this in the Edge of Night, how they're mere tools for her. After Arthas got killed off, the only purpose they have is to serve as cannonfodder.

I know that it is bullshit though and I agree because what about their take on this? They're freewilled apparently? The entire story around the Forsaken is a complete paradox whichever way you take it; from the previously mentioned raising of skelettons from their graves, to the Forsaken joining the Horde and then worshipping an undead high elf, in addition to the fact that Undercity would've been swarmed and taken out by most of the protagonist factions for everything they're doing all over the place(ie the Cenarion Circle/Cenarius is friendly with the Horde that is lead by Sylvanas, despite the fact that her Forsaken undo live and nature wherever they go, twisting the cycle of life).

[TheVaryag]

Dialogue taken from Darkranger Velonara at the Hunter's Lodge (if you buy 13 roses from the "Death Hunter" nearby)

Why on earth would they listen to her if she yanked them out of a happy afterlife and they know they go to an abyss if they die?

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

Far as we can tell, Death Knights... and just follow me here for a moment, when reanimated Into service feel a want to do as they're told, they obey whoever resurrected them or whoever has the mental sway over them, that's why the Lich King controlled his minions and why his control faltered when Sylvannas' bunch rebelled.

When a death knight Is raised, like with the Four Horsemen they accepted their newest task of undeath and follow It, for proof one scource from Wowpedia tells us:

Undeath as a knight

Psychologically:

- After being raised by the Lich King and regardless of their past life, almost all death knights embraced the honor of their new status. However, there were the rare few that were reanimated and retained emotion and memory, and in some cases, fear. These "unworthy initiates" to the dark brotherhood were then disposed of, fed "alive" to ravenous ghouls. Death knights afflicted by the worgen curse had their feral instincts shattered in favor of the Lich King's will. This held true even after their freedom from the Lich King.

- Despite all the psychological conditioning and trauma they went through, some knights are able to act mostly like they were before their death. This includes Thassarian, who served among the Alliance and saved his own sister even as a death knight.

- The new generation of the Four Horsemen is made entirely of souls which voluntarily agreed to be raised as death knights. It is unknown how they will act yet.

A direct quite from Wowpedia, I disagree that the Four Horseman are a "New" generation of death knights, but that's details. I don't think they're any different than the Death Knights raised In Acherus and making the Third Generation of Death Knights. Even though this new generation would be more tied to the current Lich King and obey him directly, rather than the Acherus ones which had their free will returned to them when Arthas died.


My point Is, Sylvanas may have a similar mental control over her subjects, so the Dark Rangers might not have a choice, It's like, they're aware what's happening to them but they can't really do anything about It other than groan and moan.

[Friendlyimmolation]

My point Is, Sylvanas may have a similar mental control over her subjects, so the Dark Rangers might not have a choice, It's like, they're aware what's happening to them but they can't really do anything about It other than groan and moan.

Highly doubtful, seeing as this is never even hinted a anywhere. As well as the majoirty of the dark rangers were killed by Sylvanas or by arthas himself when they were part of the scourge, which he then / she turned into banshees because it was more mockery for Arthas.

[Combatbutler]

My point Is, Sylvanas may have a similar mental control over her subjects, so the Dark Rangers might not have a choice, It's like, they're aware what's happening to them but they can't really do anything about It other than groan and moan.[/B]

Sylvanas is not nearly powerful enough for these kinds of shenanigans, not to mention it is contradicted quite often, the last time in Warcrimes, in which she reflects it would be nice to have her sister with her in Undercity, someone whom she could trust, not someone in it for their own gain or fear.

[Mehrunes]

I'd imagine Velonara was one of the High Elven Banshees created by Sylvanas under Arthas' direction, or least when she unwillingly served him. It would explain why she was offered no choice in the question of her return, and if Sylvanas raised her she would see Sylvanas as the direct agent of her torment and not the Lich King, per se. That's only speculation on my part, though; we'd have to know more about Velonara and how she was raised to get a complete picture.

Not to mention it's the only possible time window for her resurrection by Sylvanas.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Not to mention it's the only possible time window for her resurrection by Sylvanas.

She could have raised her in cata, unless she was in Wotlk.

[Manabomb]

Dialogue taken from Darkranger Velonara at the Hunter's Lodge (if you buy 13 roses from the "Death Hunter" nearby)

Why on earth would they listen to her if she yanked them out of a happy afterlife and they know they go to an abyss if they die?

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

Blizzard has been hinting that Sylvanas and Jaina are totes supr evl guise, but not rlly maybe next expansion hehelolXD since the beginning of time and MoP respectively.

And yeah. Blizzard storytelling around an undead race that can only procreate by making more and more undead is about as comic book as you'd expect. What's worse is it's a fan favorite among Hordies, so good luck on getting any sort of well thought out story that doesn't involve Sylvannas wanting to rape and pillage more souls for her new age Army of the Damned.

Realistically speaking, the Argent Crusade would have been marching on the Undercity's doorstep at the first hint of Sylvannas using Val'kyr to raise more Forsaken. But that kind of story telling is too much for Blizzard, it seems.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Blizzard has been hinting that Sylvanas and Jaina are totes supr evl guise, but not rlly maybe next expansion hehelolXD since the beginning of time and MoP respectively.

And yeah. Blizzard storytelling around an undead race that can only procreate by making more and more undead is about as comic book as you'd expect. What's worse is it's a fan favorite among Hordies, so good luck on getting any sort of well thought out story that doesn't involve Sylvannas wanting to rape and pillage more souls for her new age Army of the Damned.

Realistically speaking, the Argent Crusade would have been marching on the Undercity's doorstep at the first hint of Sylvannas using Val'kyr to raise more Forsaken. But that kind of story telling is too much for Blizzard, it seems.

I love how every one of these posts assumes they know the crusade better than anyone, a crusade who worked along the Deathknights who are pretty much worse in every way.

Also title is misleading, the dark rangers were killed along side Sylvanas, the overwhelming majority were atleast. You can't "knowingly damn someone" if they were raised along with you.

[Mehrunes]

She could have raised her in cata, unless she was in Wotlk.

She was introduced in Cata, but Val'kyr couldn't resurrect Blood Elves yet.

[Jimson]

Dialogue taken from Darkranger Velonara at the Hunter's Lodge (if you buy 13 roses from the "Death Hunter" nearby)

Why on earth would they listen to her if she yanked them out of a happy afterlife and they know they go to an abyss if they die?

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

Blizzard needs to remember what they write from expansion to expansion, more like. From Wowhead, http://www.wowhead.com/npc=105099/da...nts:id=2402220

Velonara was one of Sylvanas' low-ranking rangers, but her success in the Scarlet Monastery during the Cataclysm opened up new opportunities for her. When the Dark Lady asked for volunteers to make the trek into Draenor, Velonara answered without hesitation. Any opportunity to please the Dark Lady is worth the risk.

That's what her follower description read in WoD.

[Ebalina]

Dialogue taken from Darkranger Velonara at the Hunter's Lodge (if you buy 13 roses from the "Death Hunter" nearby)

Why on earth would they listen to her if she yanked them out of a happy afterlife and they know they go to an abyss if they die?

Blizzard really needs to step up their storytelling with the Forsaken, it feels like there's no consequences for the shit they do.

There is never consequences for those who have absolute power.
Sylvanas has power over life and death at the same time so there is no consequences for her as there shouldn't be.
She is the Banshee Queen the leader of the forsaken she can do as she pleases.

Those who want to hold her accountable swiftly meed their demise.

[Friendlyimmolation]

That's what her follower description read in WoD.

As others have said before, she could have been raised by sylvanas during the scourge invasion. Or she could blame Sylvnas for arthas, Or Sylvanas did raise her.

[Deleted]

This still doesn't fix that Blizz hasn't given the Forsaken any direction of their own, aside from worshipping Sylvanas, after Arthas's death.

Many Forsaken went all the way down to Stormwind just to be rejected as monsters and forced to go back. And then the Scarlet Crusade started their campaign.

It's not that all went instantly to Sylvanas' forces, they were pushed there for survival.