WTF is wrong with MW

[Swalload]

Comparing the amount of logs, to make this relevant we need the amount of total MW player compared to the total amount of other healers.

[Avada Kedavra]

Comparing the amount of logs, to make this relevant we need the amount of total MW player compared to the total amount of other healers.

what does the number of mws have to do with comparing throughput and healer performance between the classes? we are comparing HPS. Also any decent MW switched to a druid/hpal or disc priest because they were smart enough to recognize a burning ship and jumped. But their switch is indicative to the fact that MW is shit and bliz cant/wont fix it. The upcoming changes are a drop in the water and will put us no where near hpaly/rdruid.

[Vordie]

Comparing the amount of logs, to make this relevant we need the amount of total MW player compared to the total amount of other healers.

I sort-of agree but there are two possibilities here if there are less people playing MW monk (which, I think is definitely the case). Either people don't play monk because they see the logs and think "fuck they are bad" OR, they don't play monks cause they are ACTUALLY bad so they jumped ship and went to a class that is actually useful in a raid. So it's hard to distinguish between the two :/

Now, from experience, I am having such a fucking hard time healing on my MW in M+, it's ridiculous. I play 3 healing classes at the moment, druid, paladin priest and monk ok that's 4 but I'm not going back to edit, fuck you, and even though both my paladin AND priest are MUCH lower geared (we're talking 20 ilvls), I have a much easier time managing with them. I might simply be an awful awful monk player, or there is a potential problem with the class. Or both.

Judging by the logs and people's complaints, I'm leaning towards MW monks are simply not CLOSE to up to par to any healer right now. A disc priest with no innervates can probably do better. There is nothing monks bring to the table that a druid can't do 10 times better, except for the mass dispel of Revival (which is a joke, since there is no fight atm that becomes easier by a mass dispel).

What's even worse is that I don't see any hope in the horizon. The changes are neither buffs or nerfs (from what I hear at least), and they DEFINITELY need a buff. You could make the monk mastery proc on every tick of Renewing Mists and they STILL wouldn't be on par with druids.

[chaosmage]

Monk heals are fine, my raid had two mw healers and had 0 issue. It's just that the whole monk class isn't popular at all and barely anyone plays it. atleast our monk top heal justs spamming essence font pretty much, may as well bring back uplift.

[Avada Kedavra]

Monk heals are fine, my raid had two mw healers and had 0 issue. It's just that the whole monk class isn't popular at all and barely anyone plays it. atleast our monk top heal justs spamming essence font pretty much, may as well bring back uplift.

we are talking about mythic. heroic doesnt matter. no they are not fine. your whole post is so wrong i literally cant even. i dont see ur 2 mw in the logs referenced so...

[Vordie]

Monk heals are fine, my raid had two mw healers and had 0 issue. It's just that the whole monk class isn't popular at all and barely anyone plays it. atleast our monk top heal justs spamming essence font pretty much, may as well bring back uplift.

Are we talking mythic? I would love to see a log of a monk spamming Essence Font during progression on a mythic boss and not running out of mana in the first 2 minutes of the fight. Also, EF in M+ is a joke in my experience.

Unless of course he's getting 3-4 innervates, in which case you're better off giving them to a Disc Priest.

[Deleted]

We are close to downing mythic guldan with a holy priest a disc a resto shaman and a MW. And I agree so much, MW is in a really bad spot, I wish we had a resto druid.

[Devonitar]

We are close to downing mythic guldan with a holy priest a disc a resto shaman and a MW. And I agree so much, MW is in a really bad spot, I wish we had a resto druid.

I'm currently progressing Gul'dan and I wish I was a resto druid.

[Deleted]

I'm currently progressing Gul'dan and I wish I was a resto druid.

Cleared NH Mythic twice as MW, only not healed Elis as we 3 heal with HPal, RDr and Spam. Cant even get close to a r druid, i spent alot of time dpsing now. Trying to compete vs certain classes you just oom. I even have the pal mana buff, the druid has nothing.

P1 and P2 Guldan we are all resonble on HPS. When P3 comes priest, sham and others all just pull way ahead. Just seem to lack any power behind my heals. But All fights pretty much have movement, so not only does a druid move and heal, the rest of us a pretty gimped.

I just want to see r druid rained in a bit, the other classes excelt at certain things like if its not a progress fight a shaman has not much to do etc

I have also cleared NH Mythic without a r druid and it wasnt really hard, just we all went up 200k hps ;P

[ribthanwa]

Are we talking mythic? I would love to see a log of a monk spamming Essence Font during progression on a mythic boss and not running out of mana in the first 2 minutes of the fight. Also, EF in M+ is a joke in my experience.

Unless of course he's getting 3-4 innervates, in which case you're better off giving them to a Disc Priest.

EF is M+ is for one of 2 purposes:

1) To get a blanket hot on the group for predictable AoE burst.

2) Put the hot on someone you need to heal like crazy ST, like on grievous weeks. Stacking Haste and Mastery makes 2 effuses heal someone for 100% of their HP when EF is up, it's actually quite useful. And for this purpose you will be canceling the channel once the person you want to focus heal gets the hot

[Clozer]

things changing with 7.2.5? Currently playing druid/pala since monk is garbage but i wanted to go back to him..

[Nyel]

things changing with 7.2.5? Currently playing druid/pala since monk is garbage but i wanted to go back to him..

Yeah things changing, MW will be worse than before. Yay!

[Tiphess]

Yeah things changing, MW will be worse than before. Yay!

... no?

10char

[Nyel]

... no?

10char

Is the stat scaling better? No.
Did they solve our Mana issues? No.
Did they increase our output? No.
Did they buff Revival? No.
Did they improve our talents? No.

So what did they do to make us better?

We can debate if the 4% healing buff might compensate the CD on EF, that they increased our output in the end by +-4% and that this makes MW "better" than now but I think that's not the point. The thing is with every Tier stat scaling gets worse for us. And our T20 bonus is bad as well. I'd still prefer T19 boni over T20 anytime since they changed T20.

[Tiphess]

Is the stat scaling better? No.
Did they solve our Mana issues? No.
Did they increase our output? No.
Did they buff Revival? No.
Did they improve our talents? No.

So what did they do to make us better?

... you know all the changes on EF made it a far better spells right? It's not because we can't spam it anymore that the spell is suddenly garbage.

literally every spell of the damn kit is either getting stronger, more efficient, or both, except for soom, but it's not like anyone cares about that shit.

in all of these answers you propose to your own questions, only the first one is right.

as if we ever had mana issues, they still reduced the cost of the 2 spells we'll use most (viv and ef), and evm

our output is definitely better, it was around a 6-8% increase before the aura buff build, according to garg this last build is a 3.5% healing increase from the build before that.

althought it's silly, they did buff revival by 4% xd

RJW is default on stacked fights in 7.2.5, vs being garbage since release, how is that not improving talents ?

yea, the t20 is bad, i think we all prefer the old one, but it's good enough of a bonus to equip it anyway.


edit: i'm not saying pack it up boys spec is good nothing more we can do, but the gap between the specs is getting shorter, which means it matters even less which spec you play if you're a casual mythic player or lower. (it already didn't matter at all anyway, unless you were a player in top world guilds or if your co healers are seriously bad)

[Rife]

@Tiph

You've been repeating this notion that 7.2.5 is a buff to MW a few times here and on the official forums.

The reality is that MW will fall further behind other healers in Tomb than they are currently in NH. Guaranteed.

7.2.5 has some insignificant buffs for MW spells but the lack of secondary stat scaling will mean ultimately other healers will pull further ahead relative to MW as gear scales up through ToS and other healers get good tier bonuses and their new legendaries.

The funny part is that MW will have fallen so far behind in ToS that they'll be crying for buffs going into Argus to bring us back to the relative position MW is in now. MW is in a stronger state now relative to other healers than it will be after Tomb. Ironic huh?

[cqwrteur]

None neutral pandaren traitor LOL. Cancer and idoit.

[Deleted]

Is the stat scaling better? No.
Did they solve our Mana issues? No.
Did they increase our output? No.
Did they buff Revival? No.
Did they improve our talents? No.

So what did they do to make us better?

We can debate if the 4% healing buff might compensate the CD on EF, that they increased our output in the end by +-4% and that this makes MW "better" than now but I think that's not the point. The thing is with every Tier stat scaling gets worse for us. And our T20 bonus is bad as well. I'd still prefer T19 boni over T20 anytime since they changed T20.

Is the stat scaling better? No. - True, we're fucked on scaling :^ )
Did they solve our Mana issues? No. - They improved them, we no longer mindlessly spam EF, which helps our mana
Did they increase our output? No. - Yes, we got buffs
Did they buff Revival? No. - Doesn't need a buff, it needs to re-work to remove the HoT and put it all upfront.
Did they improve our talents? No. - Isn't overly required

MW is naturally better in 7.2.5 than it is currently.

The question of if we're 'good' enough to fight for a spot, is yet to be known.

[Nyel]

The reality is that MW will fall further behind other healers in Tomb than they are currently in NH. Guaranteed. [...] MW is in a stronger state now relative to other healers than it will be after Tomb. Ironic huh?

Thank you. This is the point. A laughable 4% buff won't compensate our loss due to our horrible stat scaling.

- - - Updated - - -

MW is naturally better in 7.2.5 than it is currently.

This is only right when we would stay at the same level that we are now equip-wise. We don't. We might get better overall but in comparison with other healers we will be in a worse spot than before due to the stat scaling.

[Deleted]

Is the stat scaling better? No.
Did they solve our Mana issues? No.
Did they increase our output? No.
Did they buff Revival? No.
Did they improve our talents? No..

Okay, you didn't even try the MW in PTR, of course.