US Pulls out of Paris Climate Accords

[Machismo]

You can't lose if you don't play the game.

I don't even know what that means. Are you now just typing random things found on the internet? Even phishing bots do a better job than that.

[schwarzkopf]

Can you at least define "not too long" please? What is that: a year, two years, 50 years from now?

Again - if you understood the problem, you would realise how meaningless the question is.

With that bottle we know what will happen because of empirical evidence

Actually we know what will happen because of physics and thermodynamics ... that is, proved science.

We have far more than empirical evidence to prove climate change is occurring ... we have physics and thermodynamics.

That is - the EXACT SAME WAY we know the bottle will explode is EXACTLY how we know the climate will do the same thing.

[Barnabas]

It's more like: 'well, we can't break in time to not hit that wall, so we may as well hit the accelerator instead.' It's moronic.

Not what I said at all. You can't win the game the way we are going about it. I don't see the point in promoting gas by staying and claiming it's any better than what we have been doing for decades. That is moronic in itself to assume the current king is better than our last one. You still fuck up the environment. Exxon's letter painted the reality when they mentioned the importance of remaining in the agreement because it negatively affects their gas business by leaving the agreement. That is a fact of the motivation. The reality of obtaining said gas comes with millions of gallons of water with a 30% loss for one single well. Not to mention the energy required to drill and transport the water/chemical mixture needed to make the "magic" happen. It's bullshit.

[Torto]

1) Weather is a local phenomenon. Climate is large scale.
2) That climate has been changing for millions of years gives us millions of years of evidence in support of the theory.

1) Thank you for the clarification
2) Thank you for reinforcing my point.

It's good to have you onboard.

[Garnier Fructis]

Science would say otherwise. I'm going to go ahead and stick with science. One can admit that human-caused global warming is real, and still not want to waste billions (trillions) on it. The least you could do, is not ignore the science.

Seriously. @Torto

The thing that irks me most about anti Climate Change people are that they're dishonest. They mask their selfishness by doubting the science. It's viewing reality through the lens of your wallet. The problem is that 'yeah it's real, but I'm a selfish fuck' is politically untenable, so they have to hide behind 'it ain't real, folks.'

[Sharein]

Yep, it's called weather. Something that's been going on for millions of years. But lets panic about it right now, and spend billions fixing a non existent problem.

No, that is called climate... climate and weather aren't the same thing.

Climate is a trend, weather is a snapshot.

[araine]

I love the American Government. 'The ozone layer is fake!'

Oxygen and clean water is fake we will all be able to live on the $$$ we get from destroying the earth. oh wait you cant drink money and when there is no clean air and water left you cant buy it either. really right wingers being stupid again. short term gains for long time destruction

Really it is like pissing on yourself in the winter to keep yourself warm at night, feels ok for a minute than you got hell all night same going on here with the climate change denial

[drakensoul]

1) Thank you for the clarification
2) Thank you for reinforcing my point.

It's good to have you onboard.

Yeah!!! Feels good, doesn't it!!

To make yourself feel better by pretending people agree with you!

Why post something that's an obvious misread?

You should delete this post, too... seem to be pretty adept at that.

[Garnier Fructis]

1) Thank you for the clarification
2) Thank you for reinforcing my point.

It's good to have you onboard.

2) All that data is precisely one of the reasons why we know that the current rate of warming is abnormal. It doesn't reinforce your point. At all.

I really don't understand how you think it reinforces your point. Is it some faulty logic like 'things can only have one cause?'
Gravity makes apples fall, ergo the apples are definitely not falling faster because I'm shaking the tree vigorously! Gravity must be working overtime, what a coincidence! <--- That's exactly what the 'climate change has always happened' argument is.

[schwarzkopf]

Climate is a trend, weather is a snapshot.

Not quite...

Climate is a system, weather is the value of that system at a given point in time and space.

Climate change isn't just about an increase in X making an increase in Y, climate change is about altering the entire behaviour of the system at a point.

[Garnier Fructis]

Not what I said at all. You can't win the game the way we are going about it. I don't see the point in promoting gas by staying and claiming it's any better than what we have been doing for decades. That is moronic in itself to assume the current king is better than our last one. You still fuck up the environment. Exxon's letter painted the reality when they mentioned the importance of remaining in the agreement because it negatively affects their gas business by leaving the agreement. That is a fact of the motivation.

The point is that there are degrees to 'fucking up the environment.' Natural gas is a natural ally in the short term because it's less bad than the rest. But after coal and oil have been relatively vanquished? Yeah, natural gas is next on the chopping block.

It's bizarre that Exxon's on board, sure. But it doesn't matter if their motivation is different from our motivation, the end result is the same.

[Aggrophobic]

Well, we all knew Trump was stupid.
Are you really surprised?

[Wildtree]

If it wasnt measured with a thermometer in the exact location and time that it supposedly occurred, then its not real and measured

Like that IQ of yours?

[LMuhlen]

Life and the planet won't even notice the absence of humanity caused by climate change... in an allegoric sense climate change is just the earth heating up to get rid of a virus.

You are making your side of the discussion a disfavor by hyperbolizing (if that's a word) the outcome of climate change. Humans are among the most adaptable species out there. Add technology and we can survive nearly anything as a species. Even if billions die, even if there is famine and suffering and life-style changes, our species will go on to live another day.

[Astalnar]

Again - if you understood the problem, you would realise how meaningless the question is.

Actually we know what will happen because of physics and thermodynamics ... that is, proved science.

We have far more than empirical evidence to prove climate change is occurring ... we have physics and thermodynamics.

That is - the EXACT SAME WAY we know the bottle will explode is EXACTLY how we know the climate will do the same thing.

This is hopeless. You say you have science, but you're unable to determine what, where, and when? I ask you for a proof, and you ask me to trust you. What is this, a new age religion? Do you even realise how crazy you make yourself sound?

Even the Oracle in Dephi had less dubious of prophecies.

[apeiron1234]

Make America Great Again!

[Barnabas]

The point is that there are degrees to 'fucking up the environment.' Natural gas is a natural ally in the short term because it's less bad than the rest. But after coal and oil have been relatively vanquished? Yeah, natural gas is next on the chopping block.

It's bizarre that Exxon's on board, sure. But it doesn't matter if their motivation is different from our motivation, the end result is the same.

I explained why they are "on board." I disagree gas really isn't the better alternative. The environmental damage is severe on it's own merit. I don't see how it's better. Maybe go review the fracking process and come back to me that you think we should make gas great again.

[schwarzkopf]

You are making your side of the discussion a disfavor by hyperbolizing (if that's a word) the outcome of climate change. Humans are among the most adaptable species out there. Add technology and we can survive nearly anything as a species. Even if billions die, even if there is famine and suffering and life-style changes, our species will go on to live another day.

I've mentioned before that I was referring to human civilisation, that's what is threatened. Humans like many other species will adapt, evolve and become other species down the track.

However - ignoring the problem will end human civilisation.

[Torto]

Seriously. @Torto

The thing that irks me most about anti Climate Change people are that they're dishonest. They mask their selfishness by doubting the science. It's viewing reality through the lens of your wallet. The problem is that 'yeah it's real, but I'm a selfish fuck' is politically untenable, so they have to hide behind 'it ain't real, folks.'

Okay, lets hypothetically agree that the current global warming is not a natural phenomena and is man made. Then what? Do I now dispose of my car and buy a Prius? Switch off power to my house and grow broad beans in my yard? Vote for whatever socialist party wants to make my life the most miserable as possible? Listen to yourselves ffs, preaching doom and gloom whilst offering zero solutions but getting shitty with anyone not as morose as you.

The world is warming (slowly), forgive me for not taking the blame for it, acknowledging there is fuck all I can do about it, and understanding this is a natural phenomena that has happened before and will happen again.

[Garnier Fructis]

This is hopeless. You say you have science, but you're unable to determine what, where, and when? I ask you for a proof, and you ask me to trust you. What is this, a new age religion? Do you even realise how crazy you make yourself sound?

Even the Oracle in Dephi had less dubious of prophecies.

Philosophers are fun, but serious people really don't have time for faux philosophers trying to philosophize climate doubt.