Is Legion destined to be remembered as content rich expac. with bad design decisions?

[Deleted]

Raids and dungeons were nice and all, for years even... for as many years by now they are boring and I don't bother. I never PvP'd so that has never been content. WQ's were refreshing for a while but got boring. Broken Shore is hardly a "new zone".. there is about nothing to do.. invasions, I did a few, no reason to keep doing them, not to mention they are boring.. Leveling is content but it is consumed fast and I don't have alts.. never made a alt since I started playing late Vanilla. Pet battles are boring and pointless as I never use a companion anyway and even if I wanted for some reason, I already got hundreds to choose from. So yea... there is no NEW content... oh they add "same old content under new name" but I want something FRESH. Not dungeon number 187 where the pools on the boss to avoid are purple instead of white instead of yellow instead of red before.. Not another raid, not another pet, not another same same same same same same same same same and more of the same... maybe after all those years I am just bored of the game?

You are.
Just stop playing and go do something else.
You don't even play 98% of the fecking game.

[anon5123]

you got to put a point in something and increase your power slightly or hugely in the case of the big talents.

And I thought it was dumb and boring to have to put 5 points into a talent just to make it proc reliably, especially when plenty of talents did the same with just 1 point.

"slightly increase power" is an understatement. Some of these were not noticeable at all, like the "5% crit" 5-point talents.

I think that and buying new spells were some of the coolest moments in leveling.

How is it "cool" to have to stop what you're doing, go all the way back to town, and have to spend gold on higher ranks of spells?

I really must question your experience with old expansions if you think an inconvenient gold sink that forces you to stop questing and go back to a major city every 2 levels is "the coolest moment in leveling".

Again, I love old expansions, but these are not the reasons why I loved them.

[cparle87]

Have you even played this xpac? At launch, some specs were borderline unplayable without the right leggos (UH DK comes to mind). If leggos were supposed to be a bonus, they should all have been utility ones, not throughput items. And saying, you character is 100% without the right leggos is BS. If there are items that boost your damage by 5+%, these items have to be taken into consideration when designing fights, just like M NH was designed around whole (or vast majority) raid having maxed artifact. If you designed around people not doing the 10% damage extra, then raids who got lucky and had bunch of their DPS with this boost would have a lot easier time (this is especially true for the world first contenders, as they are already struggling to meet DPS requirements), so you have to take that into account, which makes your character without the right throughput items not 100%, but eg. 95%.

Yes, I've played this xpac. I have Concordance on all four of my weapons. I also had 54 on three of my weapons, 45 on the fourth when 7.2 dropped. And I never farmed keystone dungeons. Never even touched them before 7.1 came out.

Did Blizzard ever say anywhere that Nighthold was tuned around legendaries? I'd be very curious to see that source. I knew it was tuned around a complete artifact.

[SirCowdog]

How is it "cool" to have to stop what you're doing, go all the way back to town, and have to spend gold on higher ranks of spells?

I really must question your experience with old expansions if you think an inconvenient gold sink that forces you to stop questing and go back to a major city every 2 levels is "the coolest moment in leveling".

The funny part about that is that you still have to "return to town" in order to spend your AP and upgrade. Oh...how far we've come since vanilla.... :/

[Aeula]

I'll remember it as the expansion with lots of shallow busywork content and bad design decisions accompanied by the third worst patch of all time: 7.2 (After 6.1 and 2.2).

Also the expansion when blizzard got even greedier by upping the price of all their already overpriced services.

Oh and also the worst quests we've ever seen in the form of the corrupted Ashbringer questline and the 7.2 questline.

In short; fuck this expansion. I hate it more than WoD.

[anon5123]

The funny part about that is that you still have to "return to town" in order to spend your AP and upgrade. Oh...how far we've come since vanilla.... :/

Except nowadays, returning to town is not a hassle because of short cooldown hearthstones and a million teleports. Hell, most classes have a teleport straight to their class hall.

And you're not forced to do it really often. And it doesn't cost gold. And it's actually a decent advancement sometimes, not just a pointless gold sink.

And you don't have to do it immediately, you can do it whenever. You're not put at a huge disadvantage if you keep going for a little longer without putting in that extra trait, compared to vanilla where you WILL be at a big disadvantage if you don't train those new spell ranks.

:/

[Deleted]

People thought MoP was the worst expansion when it was current content. Honestly with Legion, I think we just have to wait and see.

MoP was one of the best, imo

- - - Updated - - -

I'll remember it as the expansion with lots of shallow busywork content and bad design decisions accompanied by the third worst patch of all time: 7.2 (After 6.1 and 2.2).

Also the expansion when blizzard got even greedier by upping the price of all their already overpriced services.

Oh and also the worst quests we've ever seen in the form of the corrupted Ashbringer questline and the 7.2 questline.

In short; fuck this expansion. I hate it more than WoD.

add ruined PvP and PvE atmosphere, I'll walk with you

[SirCowdog]

Except nowadays, returning to town is not a hassle because of short cooldown hearthstones and a million teleports. Hell, most classes have a teleport straight to their class hall.

And you're not forced to do it really often. And it doesn't cost gold. And it's actually a decent advancement sometimes, not just a pointless gold sink.

And you don't have to do it immediately, you can do it whenever. You're not put at a huge disadvantage if you keep going for a little longer without putting in that extra trait, compared to vanilla where you WILL be at a big disadvantage if you don't train those new spell ranks.

:/

I mostly agree. There are lots of ways to get back to town. But it's still an extra step.

The entire point of just giving people the new spell rank when they level up was to keep them out in the world and playing. It's the same reason reforging was removed. But for some baffling reason Blizzard wants players to keep checking back at base with AP, and Artifact Research, and building buffs, and command table missions, etc, etc. Bleh.

Sometimes I wish Blizzard wasn't so schizophrenic with their design decisions. I mean...I know they're a huge dev team, but seems like they oughta work on their consistency a bit.

[Hctaz]

And I thought it was dumb and boring to have to put 5 points into a talent just to make it proc reliably, especially when plenty of talents did the same with just 1 point.

"slightly increase power" is an understatement. Some of these were not noticeable at all, like the "5% crit" 5-point talents.



How is it "cool" to have to stop what you're doing, go all the way back to town, and have to spend gold on higher ranks of spells?

I really must question your experience with old expansions if you think an inconvenient gold sink that forces you to stop questing and go back to a major city every 2 levels is "the coolest moment in leveling".

Again, I love old expansions, but these are not the reasons why I loved them.

Because it was a nice change of pace? You've just been questing with your friends for 3-4 hours and now you have an active point to say "Hey guys, lets go back to the city, take in the scenery maybe work on our professions a little and power up our characters," instead of this rush rush rush of level level level grind grind grind you need to be max now there is no longer a journey only the destination. The entire game felt like an adventure instead of a harsh grind until you win like it does today.

And before you say something like "Well you wouldn't say that if you played that way now" I have played on private servers semi recently. I played on Nost before it was shut down as a warlock. I liked the pacing significantly better than live servers. It feels like the game has actual progression throughout the entire game instead of progression only through raids. Leveling up is progress. Everything in the game is brainless now until you get to mythic raiding. I remember going into M+ the first week it was ever released and clearing a ten. It was stupid. All the game has now is a grind for the ending. That's why I like talent trees and buying spells. You feel actual progress being made other than "Let's see how fast I can get through Outland"

[anon5123]

Because it was a nice change of pace? You've just been questing with your friends for 3-4 hours and now you have an active point to say "Hey guys, lets go back to the city, take in the scenery maybe work on our professions a little and power up our characters," instead of this rush rush rush of level level level grind grind grind you need to be max now there is no longer a journey only the destination. The entire game felt like an adventure instead of a harsh grind until you win like it does today.

Not wanting to be inconvenienced with being forced back to town every 2 levels and wasting gold on spell training =/= wanting to rush to max level

bad strawman

[Deleted]

Legion has some very strong points, but the expansion is overrall ruined by asinine decisions.
I like the Broken Isles, they're not on par with Northrend or Pandaria, but they're definitely a nice and well detailed continent. Leveleing experience was good, class orders are what garrison should've been in the first place, and the focus on classes is something I really like. Raids have been great so far, and the dungeons are well amde too. Story is a swing between well written stories and characters, and terrible ones.

BUT

Class design and balance is at its lowest point ever, legendaries system is an abomination that should have never seen the light, heavy rng factor on gear and professions is simply ridicoulus. Artifact Power could have been handled better. Mythic+ started as an exciting new feature and ended up as just another grinding method. Patch 7.2 is a big pile of shit.

Definitely not my favorite expansion, but I still consider it a better experience than WoD overall.

[primalmatter]

To me it will be... don't get me wrong I enjoyed it but it really added a lot of crippling systems to a otherwise strong game.

[Hctaz]

Not wanting to be inconvenienced with being forced back to town every 2 levels and wasting gold on spell training =/= wanting to rush to max level

bad strawman

but the difference is that there was a journey along the way. They've removed anything that incentivized this like the need to stop and drink when you went oom after three pulls or needing to actively plan your methods of pulling mobs. If you pulled two things at once you would likely die and that caused you to take the game at a slower pace. Much less burn out when you're forced to play the game either slower or smarter.

[Yelmurc]

What part of content in 7.2 was class specific? There were the arti upgrade scenarios, which were shared by several classes and the arti skin scenarios, which were also shared.

The class order hall mounts come to mind as well as the unique question for the class followers.

[Yamuri]

I wonder if all of the complaining about the expansion because they miss sitting in their garrisons.

[Gimlix]

MoP = Highly Underrated Xpac.

This. So much this.
Legion doesn't come close to MoP content.

[Sansnom]

Blizzard are a billion dollar company, there was hardly any content in WoD, what exactly did they spend their time on? The amount of content we get is bare-bones to what we could get. 7.2 had one dungeon and an incredibly poor quest chain. Farming M+ again due to new traits is not new content.

It is a billion dollar company with other games. How much does the backend infrastructure cost? I have no idea. It cannot be cheap.

Creating content takes time. Again I have no idea how long it takes but it takes time to come with some thing new, prototyped, tested, reviewed, modified, etc.

Does anyone here have any direct experience in game development or similar and give a comparison if Blizzard is quicker or slower than others?

It's astounding to me that after all this time people seem to think that the legendary system is fine, do you just do world quests everyday? Legendary items are terribly imbalanced, the system to get them is utterly idiotic and they reward luck not skill. Any player worth his salt knows it's terrible.

Some legendary are imbalance but what is wrong with getting a lucky drop? That is how it was initially only it was only in raid. Blizzard felt non-raiders should have a chance at legendary.

Or maybe this has something to do with the carrot on a stick legendary system and the incessant AP grind? (Although not so much anymore with the new Concordance trait). I've no doubt that the average play time will drop significantly now that there is no real reason to do either of those anymore.

Grind is part of MMO. WoW has reintroduced in Legion. People were complaining about nothing to do. Now they have some grind to do. The problem was some took it to the extreme. EQ had grind. Early MMO had grind.

[micwini]

Only rich content at launch and up to 7.1. Unfortunately, they didn't follow up with 7.2.

[lazzy]

I think it will be remembered as the xpac that could of been great.

They killed it with RNG.

[Yamuri]

No not at all. However, this is why I think legion is the worst expansion they have ever released.

WoD was a bad expansion outside of raids and class design. Now those are very important, so I could live with it but they clearly missed with garrisons, the apex shards and other content. In fact, the way it all played out it would not shock me some day if we find out someone really fucked something up with WoD.

Legion, coming off the failure of WoD was hyped up by blizzard to be this expansion full of content, including a new class. And all it is is RNG, timegates and grinds. Everything about Legion is meant to be an illusion of content. That is why its the worst to me. I mean look at 7.2 All this hype and its literally a quest a week and they moved the carrot on a stick back for ap and ak.

I see the point. There's some real horrible things about Legion I agree. I'm a fan of AP and AK, gives some grind to it but people don't realize that the "soft" cap from AK is really a hard cap. How far can you really grind out AP in a week, I haven't seen anyone with AP 55 and I'm at 49 casually playing. It's a pointless grind when in a week 55 will be a casual goal to grab.

The new class is fun, but after WoD I feel that they needed a new class or race. I've enjoyed leveling in this expansion, I did it on every class and I did tire out from the repetativeness of the story but the class hall story was a nice touch that I could do on each class. Though that's not something that will cater to everyone outside of altoholics.

Lots of content hindering from alting but I don't think you HAVE to do all the content to keep up. If someone hits a higher AP than you, you can catch up fairly easily during next AK. There's a lot of reasons for me to like Legion, I haven't listed many down sides but there's quite a few for me to dislike Legion. Not enough for me to say it's the worst expansion.