Are you excited for Argus in 7.3?!

[Zoibert the Bear]

Argus is a Lidl's shitty beer that tastes like cow semen so no

How do you know what cow semen tastes like?

We're talking about BULL semen here aren't we? Or do transexual cows also exist? Fuck me, I'm out of the loop with this whole LGBT expansion...

[DingDongKing]

It's not an excuse of 'every game does it'. It's a valid form of content delivery. It's what developers regularly do to prevent the content from just being ploughed through immediately. Moreover, if your point is that the Legionfall campaign or any specific time gated content is the 'only' reason you're playing the game, then it's down to you to decide whether it's worth sticking around for or not. Me, personally? There's plenty other stuff to do. I don't sit around every week just waiting to complete the next stage of the Legionfall quest line.

[SirCowdog]

It's not an excuse of 'every game does it'. It's a valid form of content delivery. It's what developers regularly do to prevent the content from just being ploughed through immediately.

Yes, but did you even stop to wonder WHY they want to stop people from "ploughing through it immediately"? I guarantee you it's not so that the content is delivered in a more appealing way.

Again, who stands to gain? The players, who apparently need to have their playing habits controlled by the game company? Or the business who makes more money the longer it takes to consume the content?

[A v a]

I'm beyond excited, though not jumping at it all at once. Still in a personal debate on who my main character should be, which I haven't made up my mind since October.

[Scottyjscizzle]

We've seen Argus, it's a green husk. I'm excited, but also worried it will be a disappointment like the broken shore.

[DingDongKing]

Yes, but did you even stop to wonder WHY they want to stop people from "ploughing through it immediately"? I guarantee you it's not so that the content is delivered in a more appealing way.

Again, who stands to gain? The players, who apparently need to have their playing habits controlled by the game company? Or the business who makes more money the longer it takes to consume the content?

I think at the end of the day, there's two ways to look at it. First off, it could simply be that they want players to explore as much of the content as possible instead of just barrelling through the most immediately new content out there. Secondly, it could be that they want to ensure player retention, which in itself isn't a bad thing since it could likely invoke the first intention of diversifying the content people explore or it could obviously annoy people who want to just get on with specific stuff. I mean, look at it this way. You can't just farm all the raid gear in one week, can you? It's gated so that the content is repeatable. This content may not be repeatable but it's slowly leading to 7.2.5, so it's kinda okay with me. What I'm not okay with is the lack of stuff to do when TOS comes out on the Broken Shore apart from just constant WQs. That's the bit I'm going to get peeved about. The hope is they'll keep releasing steady quest chains until 7.3, else it's then the same thing of WQs, Dungeons and Raids.

[SirCowdog]

I think at the end of the day, there's two ways to look at it. First off, it could simply be that they want players to explore as much of the content as possible instead of just barrelling through the most immediately new content out there.

And why would they want that? Oh...that's right! Because the more time players spend on content, the more likely they'll play for extra months' worth of subs. How do you encourage that? Block them from progressing with timegates and provide a bunch of other stuff(repetitive or otherwise) for them to stick their fingers into.

Secondly, it could be that they want to ensure player retention, which in itself isn't a bad thing since it could likely invoke the first intention of diversifying the content people explore or it could obviously annoy people who want to just get on with specific stuff.

You know what retains players? Good, quality content.

The problem here is not so much that what WoW is offering isn't good(because it's pretty decent when you get down to it). It's that it's not good enough to maintain subs over longer periods of time on its own merit. So how do you keep people playing and paying? Literally prevent them from progressing until a timer expires. This has been the formula since vanilla.

I mean, look at it this way. You can't just farm all the raid gear in one week, can you?

And why not? Oh...yeah...weekly raid lockouts.

It's gated so that the content is repeatable. This content may not be repeatable but it's slowly leading to 7.2.5, so it's kinda okay with me. What I'm not okay with is the lack of stuff to do when TOS comes out on the Broken Shore apart from just constant WQs. That's the bit I'm going to get peeved about. The hope is they'll keep releasing steady quest chains until 7.3, else it's then the same thing of WQs, Dungeons and Raids.

I've never been a fan of the daily log-in chores. That is 100% filler nonsense. That's busywork, not fun and engaging gameplay. Which is why I'm waiting to see what they do with 7.3. Legion had a lot of promise, but mostly just turned out to be the same old crap with a new coat of paint. Unless blizz really takes things up a notch, I think I'll just keep plowing through the list of excellent game releases so far this year.

[Darchow]

Here's something I have been wondering about. Will the Argus we see in 7.3 be a full ''planet'' or just a zone on Argus. By the time 8.0 hits the entire expantion will be on a full scale Argus? With 7.3 being a mere introduction to what is to come and attempting to set the stage for the next exp?

[DingDongKing]

And why would they want that? Oh...that's right! Because the more time players spend on content, the more likely they'll play for extra months' worth of subs. How do you encourage that? Block them from progressing with timegates and provide a bunch of other stuff(repetitive or otherwise) for them to stick their fingers into.



You know what retains players? Good, quality content.

The problem here is not so much that what WoW is offering isn't good(because it's pretty decent when you get down to it). It's that it's not good enough to maintain subs over longer periods of time on its own merit. So how do you keep people playing and paying? Literally prevent them from progressing until a timer expires. This has been the formula since vanilla.




And why not? Oh...yeah...weekly raid lockouts.



I've never been a fan of the daily log-in chores. That is 100% filler nonsense. That's busywork, not fun and engaging gameplay. Which is why I'm waiting to see what they do with 7.3. Legion had a lot of promise, but mostly just turned out to be the same old crap with a new coat of paint. Unless blizz really takes things up a notch, I think I'll just keep plowing through the list of excellent game releases so far this year.

I hate to be a buzzkill, but it seems like you're just generally ticked off at how almost all MMOs are designed. And whilst I appreciate what you're saying, it's a tried and tested system, which if it isn't for you, you can play something else. Single player games don't have time gating for one very big reason - your time played doesn't impact a larger population. Imagine if there's no raid lockout and the hardcore guys literally nolife their way to BIS in a matter of days. You're creating such a cataclysmic divide between that population and the rest that it'll make the current mythic snobbery seem like a blue milk run in comparison. And don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from. I would also love to just get all the stuff I want to do over and done with, but the idea is to keep players retained. I'm not going to sit and be upset about a very key pillar of an entire game genre when there's no chance of it changing, for reasons both good and bad. It's just what it is.

[Stardrift]

If it's anything like 7.2 and Blizz continues their fucking apeshit retarded raid scheduling by releasing a raid nearly half a year after its patch hits live servers, no. I really am not.

[Stormspellz]

can't wait for 20 mortals to kill the most powerful entity in the physical universe with magical toothpicks.

[ShaanuJaanu]

can't wait for 20 mortals to kill the most powerful entity in the physical universe with magical toothpicks.

you underestimate how powerful player characters are....

[Deleted]

Not sure yet. If it is just "rush in, kill or assimilate sargeras, leave again" then its not really what i hope for.

[Stormspellz]

you underestimate how powerful player characters are....

we aren't that powerful, its gameplay > everythings type of things

[Deleted]

1 image of Sargeras splitting a planet: OMG HE IS UNKILLABLE, MLG SARGERAS, NOONE CAN KILL HIM!!!111!!!

I think people overestimate Sargeras by a long shot. A very long shot.

[SirCowdog]

I hate to be a buzzkill, but it seems like you're just generally ticked off at how almost all MMOs are designed. And whilst I appreciate what you're saying, it's a tried and tested system, which if it isn't for you, you can play something else. Single player games don't have time gating for one very big reason - your time played doesn't impact a larger population. Imagine if there's no raid lockout and the hardcore guys literally nolife their way to BIS in a matter of days. You're creating such a cataclysmic divide between that population and the rest that it'll make the current mythic snobbery seem like a blue milk run in comparison. And don't get me wrong, I get where you're coming from. I would also love to just get all the stuff I want to do over and done with, but the idea is to keep players retained. I'm not going to sit and be upset about a very key pillar of an entire game genre when there's no chance of it changing, for reasons both good and bad. It's just what it is.

Don't read too much into my posts. I'm not upset. I'm not angry. Yes, I strongly disapprove of designing a game primary to milk players rather than to be a good game. But that's a point of principle no different than disapproving of business practices like Pre-ordering, or day-1 DLC.

Just because MMOs have been doing this since forever doesn't make it good for the players. Trying to rationalize it by saying it's for the players' own good is just mental gymnastics. The community would not magically break just because some no-lifers blew through the raid content in a matter of days. They already burn themselves out through multiple character farming, spamming raids on the PTR, and otherwise going overboard in every way possible to clear the new content on the first day it goes live.

Lets look at Mythic+ as a good example of how the game wouldn't break if players were just allowed to keep playing. Because right now they do that; jumping from one keystone to the next, assuming they don't just keep their own and progress it. Would M+ be better if the game just magically decided..."hey, sorry, you've played too many M+ runs this week, come back later!" Would it be for "retention" or "pacing"?

There are ways to design the game to be better than it is without resorting to hard time-gates. Daily and weekly lockouts are just a relic of the past. Something that's being done, as you said, because that's just how MMOs have been doing things in the past. It's not good design. It's not for player benefit. It's 100% a tool to make money. And the fact that so many people think it's for the betterment of the game or the players is a testament to how well game companies have sold the idea.