Mythic Tichondrius Questions & Help

[Melida]

Hello! I would like some tips/answers for Mythic Tichondrius if you would be willing to help us!

Note: We are going to break brands, it’s easier for us this way since the bat phase gets kinda hectic in our group, and we only have one viable rogue for soaking.

The main thing we are wiping on is the first phase, I believe it is a mixture between Brands killing people and not having enough ranged to soak & the pillars breaking early as well as both tanks dying to the Plague DoT.
*We usually run with 2 holy priests, 1-2 resto druids, 1 resto shaman, 1 fury warrior, 2 DH dps in terms of CDs. I do have an 890 resto shaman (I am one of the holy priests) that I can level up if that will help at all.
1) I noticed we have been taking much more damage than some groups when Brand breaks, is there any way we should be mitigating this? Would breaking one at a time be better than both at a time?

2) Our bear tank keeps getting one shot by Seeker Swarm while popping CDs, but it was not so when our paladin tank was there. Our soaking order was DH DPS / Prot Pala / Rogue / Bear Tank, but had to do DH/Bear/Rogue/2nd Bear. Is the 4 stacks just too high for bear?

3) We have 6 ranged average on this fight & 4 heals, I assume all RDPS should be on bloods? Where do you put your tank with bloods to ensure they never heal up?
4) How we set up brands is that we have 4 ranged/heals stacked on each side and two ranged outside of the pile and move in when brands come out. If two brands on one side, one of the ranged outside the pile will swap with a branded player.
5) All the Carrion Plague victims move to a marker in front of the boss, near the balcony, while the soaker stands on another marker halfway from the boss and the plague pile. How do y'all do it?

Here are our logs from the last 2 nights of progression (The first night we were short by 5 dps as I made our ww monk go mw monk & missing our bear tank, so that we could properly learn the Brand mechanic, second night we were missing our protection paladin):
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ncf3X#fight=35

Unfortunately, the logs for the first night of Tichondrius progression with both tanks available is MIA, so this is all I have =(

Thanks for your time and help!!!

[Squishei]

You have exactly 10 ranged. That is enough to break brands properly, if you break brands.

That being said, I suggest you don't break brands. You have a ret paladin, he should destroy the bat phase with wings which he is when you get there. You're greatly increasing chances of deaths by breaking brands, rather than not breaking and one or ever two accidentally going off at the end of bat phase.

All the matters is the soaker is closest to the boss. Why have people run halfway between them? That's asking for accidents to happen and making melee and tanks run out of range?

A bear should never die to Seeker Swarm... ever. It probably is just bad cooldown management.

TL;DR Would strongly suggest against breaking brands. You have a much bigger chance of losing people during brand breaks than any other point in the fight. Bear tank needs to use cooldowns.

[Deja Thoris]

I agree with not breaking brands. As was said, the ret should use CD's and carry that phase. Theres good weakauras available to say how many people have the buff and how much time is left.

Buffs that drop to the outer edge should be left for people with brands to pick up *intelligently*. When theres ~5 seconds left have people move from the middle so people with brands can duck in to get buffs. If needed rally here so that accidental breaks don't result in deaths. As long as people don't flop here its trivial to heal them up once you re-enter the regular phase.

I think another thing that you need to be aware of is that people that soak need to be spammed this is where a holy pala shines but since you aren't running one you need to assign a person to it and make them talent accordingly as far as possible.

[Voulk]

Even if you don't break brands, I'd still recommend stacking and breaking the first set with Spirit Link totem or personal cooldowns. It'll give you a little bit more room to move. I'd be pretty nervous breaking with just 10 ranged / heals. If you lose one half way through the fight you'll be in for a rough time.

[Fayenoor]

I think there are 3 sets of Brand for us every Phase 1. What we can do is try break the first 2 sets only. This way we will only have a pair of ranged DPS with Brands going into bat phase. They can stay out of the clump in the middle and nuke bats and get buff towards the end of night phase.

[Melida]

Well, we tried to do no brand breaking, and it seems like we just don't have the coordination involved. Our healing is much better than that, so we have been 4 healing (2 hpriests both with Norgannon's), a rdruid, & a rsham. We have cake on a hpriest, rsham & rdruid, so we use two on each stack point on the first break, the 2nd break we use it on one side and then pop a healing CD, and on the 3rd we use both DHs, 4th we use Tranq. Still not sure how to fit in Darkness x2, and Commanding Shout into this and if it is worthwhile.

We solved the problem of our soakers dying to the DoT by me swapping out pieces to give me the Holy 4 piece and running Trail of Light, but a big issue we have now is the adds on the second phase. Would it be worthwhile to designate a spot to put the DoT or should I have our WW monk throw at ox statue down somewhere so that the tanks can pick up the adds before anyone gets stacks from the Suramar people?

Is lust worthwhile on the 2nd phase after the intermission? (we reach ~60% when we go into first intermission without lust).

I know y'all said that not breaking brands is easier and less scary, but with the cakes that we have & the cooldowns, we are fine popping them with the very occasional death.

Here are our logs from last night (first few wipes our soaking got messed up)- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical

[AtomicT]

your tanks are getting destroyed, a hpala is kinda needed for the tank/spot healing in this fight. My raid team broke the bonds in phase 1/2 and left them unbroken in phase 3. we lusted after the first night phase, for the adds just have your hunters md them to the tank.

Also your raids overall dps is very low, you might actually struggle to beat the berserk timer on tich.

[Deja Thoris]

Here are our logs from last night (first few wipes our soaking got messed up)- https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...iew=analytical

What are you actually hoping for by linking these? It's 8 wipes where people died to every conceivable kind of stupid. You can make spreadsheets co-ordinating cake timings for healing but when the wrong people eat seeker swarms or fail to stand behind pillars you're going to struggle.

Work the derps out of your system and once you string together decent attempts you can get log advice imo.

[Squishei]

No one should die to brands as long as their topped. If you're having that much issues breaking brands, you either need to

1. Not break brands.
2. Tell your healers to watch the timer for the brands and top plagued players off before the brands detonate.

I don't know what coordination there is in not breaking brands, because I'd argue there's so much more coordination you have to do when breaking brands.

When breaking brands you have to:

* Have a designated detonator for brands on both sides who are watching the health of their side and detonate safely
* Have a limited time to detonate said brands before the plague soak
* Heal all the extra ranged plagues (since they need to be topped for brand) as well as the soaker and tanks

When not breaking brands, there's no positional requirements, no timing requirements for plague, healing is condensed to the soaker and the tanks (plagues don't need to be topped). Brands only detonate with 5 people in them. The only thing you have to say is "clear the center" once 20 bats have died and have your branded players pick up a soak.

[Ramellan]

Hey Melida, I'm going to give some advice and I hope it helps/makes sense.

First split your raid into four groups: Front Left, Front Right, Back Left, Back Right. Those are for pillar stacking and should be kept the entire fight. Front left would be ranged that can do good damage to bloods. I would put 2 healers, ele shaman, boomkin and 1 other there(maybe the lock). Back left would be whichever tank is tanking the bloods out, and mobile melee that are good at killing bloods. I would put the 2 demon hunters, the ww monk and the warrior back there. Front right would be less mobile melee and the off tank, and back right would be the rest of the range who would target the boss.

Secondly, I would change the soak order. It looks like your bear tank is having a hard time with the soaks. I don't know enough about tanking to understand why, but here is my solution. I would do DH soak(Netherwalk full duration then fade), Pally, another DH same defensive CDs, then rogue. Your DH Nugzilla is literally just padding and not helping do meaningful damage. he should be using chaos blades over fel barrage and also use netherwalk instead of soul rending. Netherwalk is a full 5 seconds of immunity and helps out the healers a lot. Just make sure healers keep an eye out for them especially during transition to bat phase. They will need constant spot heals. My guild had many pulls where the 4th soaker kept dying so make sure to keep them up if you dont want to waste brez.

Third, I would just break brands. It takes a lot of coordination to not break it and the damage isn't bad. Split your ranged onto both sides of the room and make sure you don't break them right before seeker swarm. You might have to call ranged from one side to move to the other so designate a couple ranged to move if brands spawn the same side.

Lastly, Have everyone check talents for efficient dps. This was glaring as soon as I checked your DH's(Nugzilla) talents. Check out wipe 6 on the last logs. He did more dps sure, but only half to Tich as the other DH. He is wasting dps on bloods and most likely padding. You need to make sure the melee all go heavy single target damage. The ranged should clean up bloods. You will hit enrage because of too little damage to Tich. It happened to my guild and we switched people from AOE to ST.

One other tip would be to have your huge AOE bursters pick up the bat orbs first to down more bats easier. We also lusted after first night phase, but its personal preference.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask if some stuff isnt clear.

[ONCHEhap]

Among tanks,bears are by far the best at soaking,so he must be doing something wrong
And tbh,all tanks can soak,we make our blood DK soak the 2nd and 4th swarms,and that's the weakest tank against spike damage,so your bear might want to requestion his cooldown usage
For the bloods,since you have a bear you can afford to do them 6 by 6,just make sure to spot heal him with either a holy paladin or a (skilled) disco priest,if you can't get those healers,make them swap and move the bloods out on every spawn,but that'll require a lot more DPS from your group

Also just a tip for the bat phase or for the spellguards,monks' ox statue is a gift from the titans themselves,it trivialises the bat phase immensely and helps for the waves of spellguards

[Deleted]

Hello.

After finally getting 20 people to play together, we got M Krosus down, yay.

We're now starting progress on Tich, and I had a few quick questions, so I figured I'd hijack this thread.


1) I see some guides recommending you tank the boss on the opposite side of where he spawns. Is it only to have an easier time picking up adds ? We have 3 to 4 hunters in our roster, so a quick MD is usually more than enough to get them picked up, plus they're gonna be moved away from the boss anyways, right ?

2) Breaking marks. Do we do it if we have the HPS for it, and ignore them if it's too much to bear ? My plan going in with little experience (we finally managed a P1 without anyone dying from the seeker swarm, yay. Then half the raid failed to pick up a buff and died) is to detonate the first two set of brands, then let the third set be as healers are busier, what with the carrion plagues and the eventual echoes of the void damage.
Then handle the bat phase, and have the 2 remaining brands detonate in the beginning of the next phase when little happens. Ignore brands for all of P3. I see here people advising against breaking brands altogether, I assume in the end you'll get brands on every player in your raid ? I'm afraid we're way too ... bad ? with strict positioning to handle that kind of constraints, especially during bat phase.

3) Is it possible to ignore the last adds in p3 and just nuke the boss ? What we did when progressing him on HM, was keep lust for right after we exit the 2nd bat phase, so we still had it up for 1st wave of adds, then ignored the last add spawn (well, they were tanked, but that's it) and focused dps the boss. Is it a call one could make when getting close to a kill, or is having those adds up too long too much to handle ?

Thanks a lot

[Melida]

Hello.

After finally getting 20 people to play together, we got M Krosus down, yay.

We're now starting progress on Tich, and I had a few quick questions, so I figured I'd hijack this thread.


1) I see some guides recommending you tank the boss on the opposite side of where he spawns. Is it only to have an easier time picking up adds ? We have 3 to 4 hunters in our roster, so a quick MD is usually more than enough to get them picked up, plus they're gonna be moved away from the boss anyways, right ?

2) Breaking marks. Do we do it if we have the HPS for it, and ignore them if it's too much to bear ? My plan going in with little experience (we finally managed a P1 without anyone dying from the seeker swarm, yay. Then half the raid failed to pick up a buff and died) is to detonate the first two set of brands, then let the third set be as healers are busier, what with the carrion plagues and the eventual echoes of the void damage.
Then handle the bat phase, and have the 2 remaining brands detonate in the beginning of the next phase when little happens. Ignore brands for all of P3. I see here people advising against breaking brands altogether, I assume in the end you'll get brands on every player in your raid ? I'm afraid we're way too ... bad ? with strict positioning to handle that kind of constraints, especially during bat phase.

3) Is it possible to ignore the last adds in p3 and just nuke the boss ? What we did when progressing him on HM, was keep lust for right after we exit the 2nd bat phase, so we still had it up for 1st wave of adds, then ignored the last add spawn (well, they were tanked, but that's it) and focused dps the boss. Is it a call one could make when getting close to a kill, or is having those adds up too long too much to handle ?

Thanks a lot

1) as long as your raiders are aware that if they get meleed, they will leave a pool of arcane, then there's not much need to tank it on the other side. Md works, but the adds spawn on opposite sides, so might be a little hard to pick up. Ox Statue helps here.

2) We broke brands for about 100 wipes, then swapped to not breaking. Either way works, you need to pop healing CDs on the brands, but you also lose some dps because your ranged have to position themselves accordingly. Make everyone stack except brand people for the bat phase, and then tell them to not get the buffs that are not in melee, have brands go for them ~5 seconds before the night phase ends. Another note: Hunters/Rogues can mitigate it, at the loss of DPS.

3) If you are at ~5%, or your tanks can survive thru that, then yes. Watcher should die though, since it does a ton of damage.

[JustForThisThread]

This is the layout we run for our kills (I believe it's a very standard strat almost everyone runs).



If you can do the bat phase without breaking brands, then you can do it that way. We had issues with it, so we just broke brands during P1.

I see you said your rogue is soaking 3rd. Have him go 2nd. That is the big soak. We luckily have two rogues, so we swap the second and fourth with the rogues (those are the bigger soaks). Have your rogue take the increase feint damage (Elusiveness) talent and if he has it, use the legendary pants for feint.

Set up your four groups. We bring bloods to the blue marker (top left in the image). On that marker, I suggest you put your DH's, Fury if you have one, tank that has the bloods, and a healer. Move the ranged to marks green and orage, then melee on purple/orange. Make sure you have at least one healer on purple (this is probably where your roage soaker will be and he needs big heals) and the ones on green/orange need to make sure they are in range of the rogue.

[Deleted]

Our soak usually goes : blood dk - rogue 1 - blood dk - rogue 2, and our setup looks a lot like your sketch. I assigned our melee to the 2 closest pillars, it seems we all have enough time to get back from the adds once the void echoes start without taking more than 1 or 2 bolts to the face. I might move up my healers a bit for the pillars phase tho, range could indeed be an issue during this phase.

For now we're going with breaking every bond we can as soon as healers have time to handle it while not letting our rogues die, we tried a few times without breaking the brands but bat phase was hell, and I guess current gear levels mean we should have way more than enough healing capabilities to get through that damage and "play it safe". Guess we'll stop breaking them altogether in P3 tho.

Any tip on making the night phase easier ? I feel like the first 2-4 bats take forever to die, and we kill from 16 to 28 bats in the phase depending on this ... We don't have a monk tank sadly, would dps monk have access to Ox Statue too, as I see it brought up quite often for this phase ?