Is Legion destined to be remembered as content rich expac. with bad design decisions?

[Coprnjak]

I'm pretty sure most people still think Cataclysm and WoD are garbage.

nope,but im pretty sure MoP was biggest garbage ever

[Deleted]

I don't get why people always complain about pvp. It seems like it's in a better place to me.

Am I missing something?

It's QQ from people that like the days when they could get a gear set and rofl-stomp everyone.

The new PvP system is one of the few good things that Legion did right. PvP is something you can jump on at any time, with no barrier of months of beeing a free kill till you can have a chance/get to the fun part. AKA the people who were simply relying on gear are not having a jolly good time.

As for this expansion. It is not content rich because the content is made of repetition to exhaustion. But i like some things like the brawls and the invasions. The rest, i could do without. Especially AP and legendaries. The class design is piss poor aswell.

I think Legion is beeing a testing ground for alot of things and i think many of them failed. It's not a good expansion in my eyes because playing the game simply isn't as fun. But the next expansion can only improve on the class design and hopefully removing frustrating systems like the AP and leggy ones.

[BarelyLegalBear]

MoP = Highly Underrated Xpac.

Definitely agree with this, I personally loved the expansion. The content was plentiful, rep grinding was fun (Yes, it really was), raids could've been slightly better but I wasn't as much of a raider back then compared to now.

Now don't get me wrong, Legion is a great expansion, there is a ton of content, but it is just way too grindy.

[Lady Dragonheart]

The single most largest issue that Blizzard is apparently trying to tackle, from what I see, is that they are trying to sate both the 10- hours a week player-base, and the 40+ hour a week player-base with the same content. Because of this, many of the play 40+ hours a week, especially those that only engage in a few of the game's features, as well as one, maybe two or three, main characters who are avoiding alting most of the time, these players are having a tough time finding things to do in the game. Despite the fact that they mostly limit themselves, they feel that Blizzard should create content much more frequently than they are consuming it.

[Sariengrey]

Systems design , .....AP/legendaries/gated content-specs/class balance!! = bad design decisions . I will remember Diabl....er Legion as the worst blizz has been....and I been here since day 1 !

[RoKPaNda]

Aside from people like Preach and Asmongold who can't realize that they represent a really really really small percentage of the playerbase whining about the unfairness of titanforging to that tiny percentage of playerbase (mainly because Preach and Asmongold can't wrap their head around the fact that the chance of getting a decent TF from LFR/Normal is astronomically small) the current expansion is generally well received. It should be remembered fairly well, unlike WoD which was a total shithole.

[Deleted]

For those who used to log in only for raids it has to be the worst expansion ever, unless they're lucky in that they found a guild who doesn't care about ppl's AP level.

[Stormspark]

Legion was a pretty good expansion up until 7.2. But the filler quests are just terrible, it would be better if they weren't there at all, and once we upgraded our weapon and got our new champion that was the end.

[Tharkkun]

Giving us a cheap reason to do the same world quests and mythic+ dungeons over and over and over is not "content rich".

Artifacts are cool on paper, but in practice, it's just another long and boring grind, and the traits highlight the issues with the old talent trees. (wee, 1 more talent point!...oh, +3% damage to a single ability, wow so fun and amazing) That and, the AP grind is very alt-unfriendly. They should have at least made Artifact Knowledge account wide from the beginning.

As opposed to having no reason to do dungeon content again once you've outgeared it? Really they've keep the content in the game relevant almost a year after it's been released. People who have 12 characters per server wishing to put as little time into them as possible are hurt yes. But the entire point of playing the game is to play your characters. Using them as tradeskill bots is something Blizzard eliminated which isn't unfriendly to alts. It's unfriendly to people who don't actually play their alts.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion was a pretty good expansion up until 7.2. But the filler quests are just terrible, it would be better if they weren't there at all, and once we upgraded our weapon and got our new champion that was the end.

Yeah the LegionFall campaign is pretty fail. Whoever was in charge of it should reference the Suramar campaign when designing the Argus one which is coming soon. That actually had interaction as opposed to here do these world quests, missions, kill xyz for drops. No story behind it whatsoever.

[Wyrt]

If things keep going like they are in 7.2 it'll be remembered as a content poor expansion with bad design decisions.

[MoanaLisa]

The single most largest issue that Blizzard is apparently trying to tackle, from what I see, is that they are trying to sate both the 10- hours a week player-base, and the 40+ hour a week player-base with the same content. Because of this, many of the play 40+ hours a week, especially those that only engage in a few of the game's features, as well as one, maybe two or three, main characters who are avoiding alting most of the time, these players are having a tough time finding things to do in the game. Despite the fact that they mostly limit themselves, they feel that Blizzard should create content much more frequently than they are consuming it.

I would love to see actual numbers on this but you have to think that the 10-hour (or less) a week group far, far outnumbers even the 20+ hours/week much less 40 hours/week (almost six hours a day).

Seriously if someone is playing that much they should expect to run out of content sooner rather than later. I suspect that a substantial portion of subscribed players, perhaps as much as half, don't even play every day except at the very start of expansions.

[Raysz]

Legion is the best expansion since Wotlk, in my honest opinion. I've started in Vanilla btw. I don't like the legendary system, don't like that AK isn't shared across weapons (account wide would be awesome), but I do love the story lines, Suramar, the engagement and interaction, just the amount of content really.
Long story short: bad things, good things overshadow it.

All expansions had bad stuff. It's the salty people mostly that like to emphasize the bad stuff, loads of those here and on the official forums. I wonder why they keep coming back or still play.
No, I won't remember Legion for it's bad stuff, I'll remember it for all the good stuff.

[Vaelorian]

As a casual player who plays around 6/10 hours a week with 1 night of raiding (sometimes 2), I find Legion very suited for what I can accomplish with my time.

But I realise that if I went back to my "hardcore" playstyle of 7 hours a day... I would throw Legion in the bin. Not due to the quality of the content presented. But due to the lack of content when you have that many hours to spend. But this was true for most expansions really. Only in Legion I already sometimes (especially when I have 10 hours instead of 6) feel that I ran out of (enjoyable) content.

What I do like about Legion:
Do like: Artifacts and the progress made with AP/AK
Not like: That AP is not shared across all specs.
Not like: That AK is not shared across your account.

Do like: Mission tables, mainly due to the Legion App - else it is very inconvenient.
Not like: Missions take days sometimes and I really detest that. Should be a day max. Just up the resources for more valuable missions.
Not like: I don't need items for my followers anymore. So don't give me missions for it!

Do like: World Quests and the respective reputational bonus rewards after exalted.
Not like: item rewards that I have no use for anymore. Rather just give me more AP or gold. The chance of proccing into a 925 item is almost zero.

Do like: Mythic+ as they are now with a nice timer and a good spread of loot
Not like: Certain combinations of disadvantages to pretty much make it impossible to do anything above 10 in a pug.

Do like: Raids (except LFR, which I don't do)

[Daffan]

Can you give an example of a Wow expansion that was richer in content than Legion?

I'm not the guy you quoted but it's an interesting question.

The problem with WoW is, unlike old expansions - Blizzard makes content obsolete and trivial faster then ever before. There is more or an equal amount of content compared to old expansions - but most of it is made garbage and a waste of time, making it not as "rich" but still a lot in terms of quantity.

For instance, your average player doesn't even care about EN or ToV and they probably never even beat it properly. Whereas in older expacs they would have counted both of those raids as 'rich' long lasting content, in Legion they don't because they are obsolete/trivial to even the worst player. This goes for many systems.

Another aspect is for most content, average people don't even care about it because they know in a few week they will get something much better much faster via different content. The average player doesn't play the AP game because of AK. The average player holds his nethershards and doesn't bother gearing/playing because very shortly it will be made much easier. All this content is essentially made less 'rich' and valuable, not completely worthless, but not as valuable if it were in a different expansion - and had different gameplay systems backing it up (less catchup, less skips, etc whatever)

A lot of people fanboy TBC and even then it was farming TBC heroics over and over and doing simple grind stuff, but the difference was it actually felt worth it to the average player and you got invested. Whereas now, it's meh and feels worthless to most (again "not as rich")

[Dracullus]

Bad design... sigh. When you understand that WoW is played for maaaany kind of players? We have people that play 24/7. We have people that can find only 1 hour after work. We have raiders that literally hate doing anything beside raids. And so on, and so on.

Every WoW expac try to reach expectation for largest amount of players. WoD will likely be remembered as worst expansion, but look on that from raider perspective - it was literally paradise, game did all chores and you could focus on progression. Nothing is black and white. You should finally stop this "What was best WoW expac?" bullshit.

Legion tries another thing - in WoD you could progress only by doing raids, now you can do whatever you want (and without caps). If I feel like I can do forget about raids and just do only PVP for a week - I still will progress through AP and will have chances for legendary. Same with dungeons and even world content.

People that are most screwed right now are hardcore mythic raiders and people that want "max out" their chairs and switch to alt. Next expac will likely address their issues, but they're minority - Blizz solutions can't screw majority, otherwise we will have another WoD.

And funny thing about class balance - in 7.1.5 whiners was bitching about bad balance until Nighthold launch, when it turns out to be one of the most balanced patch in history... you all went silent. 7.2 is not balanced, but it's "catch up and nerf" phase of tier - let's see how 7.2.5 will look with ToS gear.

As for content, I don't think we ever had better expac, even without Argus. The only weak spot so far was Legionfall campaign - and it was design mistake. Blizz created 24 (!) class specific story chapters for 7.2. Imagine it this resources was put into main story, we would have second Suramar.
They really should end class campaigns in 7.0 when they had much more resources than now. Also we are fresh after Suramar, which was easily most story rich zone in WoW history. We have no epic campaigns for Lich King or Yogg-Saron either.

But sadly I'm talking to wall. This forum called "worst" every single expac (and patch) since the begining and you will continue until last day of WoW.

[Keashaa]

Legion will only be remembered as the expansion of RNG and endless grind.

Don't mix up endless repetition and "content rich" *lol*

[Deleted]

Only some salty loser can consider Legion to be a bad expansion. It is objectively one of the better expansions to date with a ton of content, a lot of great ideas and systems implemented and a relevant theme.

I just don't get the hate seeping from some people here, like that dude in this thread saying Legion is worse than WoD, really now?

Now some may say content Legion has is of no interest to them, but that's their issue, it does not change the fact there is a load of it here - quite a lot more than any recent expansions coming to mind.

I believe if the content has no interest to you, you can safely say that Legion is a bad expansion (for yourself)?
you can argue with people saying there is no content... sure there is, but whether an expansion is good or bad for someone is a matter of personal taste...

[DarthMonk79]

Have to say the only thing I've disliked about Legion has been the Broken Shore campaign. After the great storyline in Suramar that was then extended even further they come out with the Broke Shore face-plant. I like the new dungeon, can't wait for the raid, the world bosses are all unique and drop great gear and the buffs that we can have up are interesting as well. The only problem was the campaign, a weekly quest that more often than not was just stupid. At least the Suramar weekly chain usually had a few quests to it with some story and gameplay and traveling, the BS one was just that... BS!! One quest a week with most of them being stuff you do anyways while in that zone. I mean they couldn't make actual quests per week that maybe take you around not only the Broken Shore but other areas of the Broken Isles? They couldn't have some phasing and have stuff change as you went? Did it have to be great... no !! Hell, I wouldn't even mind if it wasn't on par with the Suramar chain, but this isn't even on par with anything except a weaker Timeless Isle.

[purebalance]

Content rich? Pseudo content maybe, but half of the things they "added" were just renaming existing features. Artifacts were Draenor perks that you had to keep working on. World Quests are dailies/essentially the same quest you did leveling.

[HumbleDuck]

Yep. I certainly do think that will be the case, at least for me.
I always thought as WoD an expansion with good initial design choices but extremely thin on content.
Legion seems to be content rich, but some small design choices that left a bitter taste in my mouth.