Frost DK changes

[faithbane]

Frost DK didn't become the god mode, god button spec until later on in the expansion, Unholy got robbed, I think everyone seems to forget that, in fact, Frost was complete trash.

"Press one button and do 1 billion damage" yes, that's gravy train in my eyes because other specs have stupid clunky rotations and can barely scrape middle.

You spelled fury warrior wrong. Pressing "one button" and then trying to balance between overlapping your RP and worrying about being too late and losing a gdp/rune regen while trying to avoid instinctively pressing a move that is in your rotation because it is detrimental to the move that you are currently trying to balance is actually "press one button and do 1 billion damage". I think if you apply to be Spicer's understudy by submitting this post, you might get the job.

You know what, do me a favor, go press this 1 button and the billion damage, ill be waiting here for the video.

P.s - not gonna get into aligning CDs & Procs/right legendaries/farming for weeks for right relic/refreshing RW with full stacks up/making sure you use the move on the lowest movement requirement part of the encounter to make sure you actually get that "billion dps".. It would probably fly right past you. hurr durr one button.

[Exotath]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q2pfefV8te...d-riker-2.jpeg

Believe whatever you want to. I even posted a link to the COMPLETE aura and yet people believe mmo champ although it makes no sense to buff only 5 abilities...

Thanks for pointing that out. I think most of us took the PTR notes at face value where it only listed those few abilities.

[exeetor]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q2pfefV8te...d-riker-2.jpeg

Believe whatever you want to. I even posted a link to the COMPLETE aura and yet people believe mmo champ although it makes no sense to buff only 5 abilities...

I see what you say but he only read the notes. To call him out as "completely wrong" based on that he is pointing out that the Patch notes says 5 abilities and therefore it not beeing an aura is wrong from your side.

then since it seems like the notes are wrong and were actually getting an aura buff of 3% then thats a different thing! And a good thing. Still bad to say that a person is wrong when he actually has read the notes right.

Just say it in a way so ppl will read what you post instead.

As in "hmm I think were missing some data here. Look here, if u click the see more arrow we can see that the buff seems to affect more skills and indeed is an aura" Instead of coming of negative and starting with calling out someone.
I can honestly say that I didnt really care for your post based on the way you wrote.

Anyhow, Its seems to be wrong in the Notes PPL.
If we follow the link http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=137006/frost-death-knight we can see the whole aura, it says 3% on the skills listed in the notes there BUT if u click the "See more" arrow we can see that ALL our skills except auto-attacks seems to be added here aswell which means that the data-mining has been a bit off and were actually getting a 3% dmg buff across the board. Which is great!

And thx to Klatar who found it.

[msdos]

You spelled fury warrior wrong. Pressing "one button" and then trying to balance between overlapping your RP and worrying about being too late and losing a gdp/rune regen while trying to avoid instinctively pressing a move that is in your rotation because it is detrimental to the move that you are currently trying to balance is actually "press one button and do 1 billion damage". I think if you apply to be Spicer's understudy by submitting this post, you might get the job.

You know what, do me a favor, go press this 1 button and the billion damage, ill be waiting here for the video.

P.s - not gonna get into aligning CDs & Procs/right legendaries/farming for weeks for right relic/refreshing RW with full stacks up/making sure you use the move on the lowest movement requirement part of the encounter to make sure you actually get that "billion dps".. It would probably fly right past you. hurr durr one button.

Wow you took my gross hyperbole way too seriously/literally.
Here's your sherlock holmes award.

Yeah, you go ahead and try and make Frost seem soooooo complicated, lol, not fooling anyone there.
Frost compared to Unholy is a 1 button spec (I'm being figurative here, just for future reference, try not to pick me apart mister!)

[Deleted]

Thanks for pointing that out. I think most of us took the PTR notes at face value where it only listed those few abilities.

I rerolled from enhance which got a lot of aura buffs (25% from 7.1.5 to 7.2, now another 10% on PTR) so i already knew about the mmo champ notes being incomplete. I made the same mistake once saying XY is missing and another user showed me that i was wrong.

Frost DKs never got aura buffs so obviously you didnt know better. But i didnt expect that much ignorance.

[exeetor]

Wow you took my gross hyperbole way too seriously/literally.
Here's your sherlock holmes award.

Yeah, you go ahead and try and make Frost seem soooooo complicated, lol, not fooling anyone there.
Frost compared to Unholy is a 1 button spec (I'm being figurative here, just for future reference, try not to pick me apart mister!)

Frost basic rotation is easy. Frost is WAY more punished for bad plays thou and its really way more about doing quick reactions based on proccs and managing resources then anything else. This makes it quite hard to play really well, pushing/gambling for a rune-proc can increase the length of breath with easily 10 sec if you do the rotation correct. Also knowing when to HRW and when to wait/hope for runes is a big part of the rotation.
Just cause a spec only uses a few skills for it base rotation does not by any means make it easier to play then others.

I for one belive frost is way harder to play and get into the high procentiles then unholy is just based on that your gambling with your runes and being way more punishing if u fail

[Direpenguin]

Wow you took my gross hyperbole way too seriously/literally.
Here's your sherlock holmes award.

Yeah, you go ahead and try and make Frost seem soooooo complicated, lol, not fooling anyone there.
Frost compared to Unholy is a 1 button spec (I'm being figurative here, just for future reference, try not to pick me apart mister!)

What the fuck are you on about? Using your figurative hyperbole to rationalize class nerfs?

Also, the whole game is easy. How can ANY class be complicated when you can go download a Weakaura rotation helper for any class/spec?

Derp de derp, Unholy is superultrauber..like..complicated, because I have 4 buttons that Weakauras tells me to press, while Frost only has 3... derp derp

[Khrux]

You can make any spec sound like its difficult to play, because many specs have small intricacies that are not apparent at a glance.

BM hunters are commonly referred to as an utter faceroll class because its ability count is so low. I could say that micromanaging your cd reduction from dire frenzy to not be wasteful, resource pooling for bestial wrath windows, aligning CDs with high frenzy stacks and managing pet positioning all add to the "difficulty" of the spec but at the end of the day its no easier/harder to play than affliction, fury warriors, frost DKs, Assass Rogues, Havoc DH and other top performers.

You could look at Unholy as: Build wounds with Festering, spend with Scourge, dump RP with death coil and call it a faceroll spec. Or you could claim its an RNG focused spec with 3 resources, pet management, forward thinking, CD alignment and on and on and on....

Ultimately you can read icy veins, spend an hour fucking around with WQs and perform 75th percentile parses or you can learn the more intricate aspects of your spec and parse 90th+ parses. This goes for every spec from BM hunters to Feral Druids, the only difference in "difficulty" between specs these days is how high/low the skill ceiling and floor is.

[Kaver]

You can make any spec sound like its difficult to play, because many specs have small intricacies that are not apparent at a glance.

BM hunters are commonly referred to as an utter faceroll class because its ability count is so low. I could say that micromanaging your cd reduction from dire frenzy to not be wasteful, resource pooling for bestial wrath windows, aligning CDs with high frenzy stacks and managing pet positioning all add to the "difficulty" of the spec but at the end of the day its no easier/harder to play than affliction, fury warriors, frost DKs, Assass Rogues, Havoc DH and other top performers.

You could look at Unholy as: Build wounds with Festering, spend with Scourge, dump RP with death coil and call it a faceroll spec. Or you could claim its an RNG focused spec with 3 resources, pet management, forward thinking, CD alignment and on and on and on....

Ultimately you can read icy veins, spend an hour fucking around with WQs and perform 75th percentile parses or you can learn the more intricate aspects of your spec and parse 90th+ parses. This goes for every spec from BM hunters to Feral Druids, the only difference in "difficulty" between specs these days is how high/low the skill ceiling and floor is.

Sorry for my language... but i call bullshit.

[Kluian05]

Looks like I get to finally replace my ilvl 870 blast radius relics ...

I imagine it will still be one of the strongest relic traits, but not you won't have to wait for a 40 ilvl upgrade to replace it.

[exeetor]

Sorry for my language... but i call bullshit.

what he is saying is correct man. If u read up on a specc and then try it out for and hour or two (and dont suck ) you will learn the major parts of the specc.
What pushes those last %-tiles are the small stuff and that takes time to learn. I havent found a single specc in game yet that I find "hard" to play. The only difference spec by spec is how punishing it is to mess up your core stuff. Frost DKs are VERY punishing, doesnt mean its HARD to play the core rotation.

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what he is saying is correct man. If u read up on a specc and then try it out for and hour or two (and dont suck ) you will learn the major parts of the specc.
What pushes those last %-tiles are the small stuff and that takes time to learn. I havent found a single specc in game yet that I find "hard" to play. The only difference spec by spec is how punishing it is to mess up your core stuff. Frost DKs are VERY punishing, doesnt mean its HARD to play the core rotation.

also sorry but can we get back on topic. This is about the changes to Frost DKs. So when is the PTR out? wouldnt it be easiest to just make a PTR char and check the damage on spells? :P

[meumaxu]

they nerfed us while other specs getting buffed a lot? thats bs!

[msdos]

What the fuck are you on about? Using your figurative hyperbole to rationalize class nerfs?

Also, the whole game is easy. How can ANY class be complicated when you can go download a Weakaura rotation helper for any class/spec?

Derp de derp, Unholy is superultrauber..like..complicated, because I have 4 buttons that Weakauras tells me to press, while Frost only has 3... derp derp

Why are you cursing and spamming derp derp? Don't make it too obvious that you're emotionally invested in this.
"Rationalize class nerfs" Do you really take this game that seriously? One raid tier Frost is trash, the next it's the best, now you're getting nerfed.
Calm down buddy, it's not that serious.

Frost basic rotation is easy. Frost is WAY more punished for bad plays thou and its really way more about doing quick reactions based on proccs and managing resources then anything else. This makes it quite hard to play really well, pushing/gambling for a rune-proc can increase the length of breath with easily 10 sec if you do the rotation correct. Also knowing when to HRW and when to wait/hope for runes is a big part of the rotation.
Just cause a spec only uses a few skills for it base rotation does not by any means make it easier to play then others.

I for one belive frost is way harder to play and get into the high procentiles then unholy is just based on that your gambling with your runes and being way more punishing if u fail

Bro I get punished if I don't pop Dark Transformation at the right time (I have shoulders). Army of the Dead is a 10 minute cooldown. Enough said. Also, tracking how many runes are available for Soul Reaper is more difficult than anything in the Frost "rotation".
Frost you literally just stare at your RP bar.

[exeetor]

Bro I get punished if I don't pop Dark Transformation at the right time (I have shoulders). Army of the Dead is a 10 minute cooldown. Enough said. Also, tracking how many runes are available for Soul Reaper is more difficult than anything in the Frost "rotation".
Frost you literally just stare at your RP bar.

Im not saying you cant get punished for missplays on other speccs. Im saying frost is VERY punished if u missplay. Are you telling me that the difference in the first 100 sec of a fight is over 300-400k dps based on if u fuck up or not? Cause thats my difference if I screw up my Breath at the start. I easily pull 1.2M dps right now but If I fuck up my breath rotations so breath ends early I get dropped down to around 800k-ish

Army of the dead 10min CD and always up at each mythic boss pull. Nothing hard with it. Its just a big CD (too big imo). Right now Frost is WAAAAY more punished for missplays then unholy. If u just stare at the RP bar as frost you miss out alot on proccs and such and the skill in frost is to keep having that "stare" while you do the rest of the encounter.


ANYHOW. back on topic. if this data is correct and were getting a 3% overall buff then the HB nerf aint THAT bad. prob around 1% nerf or something. if its that small I really dont care that much

[Hctaz]

Frost is also getting a 3% aura buff, so I'd hardly consider this a reason to jump ship.

The 3% aura buff is to HB, FF, SF, DS (lol wut) and Frostscythe... so... we just had our howling blast reduced by almost 50% and then... yeah no. It doesn't even affect Obliterate, Frost Strike, or RW.

[Nemesquish]

The 3% aura buff is to HB, FF, SF, DS (lol wut) and Frostscythe... so... we just had our howling blast reduced by almost 50% and then... yeah no. It doesn't even affect Obliterate, Frost Strike, or RW.

I think the tooltip is just incorrect, and effects all abilities.

[Hctaz]

Sorry for my language... but i call bullshit.

It's definitely not bullshit. Frost with the breath build has me on about as much edge as Subtlety back in Dragon Soul which is certainly saying something. Sub back then was a lot of stress. You had to maintain two buffs, one debuff, watch your cooldowns and start building up energy prior to shadow dance, watch your Honor Among thieves procs... there was so much shit to do honestly and if you fucked up one button press you were SoL. This happens with Breath builds as well during Breath. The difference between a 30 second Breath and a 1 minute and 30 second Breath can be as simple as timing your Arcane Torrent wrong. Non-breath frost is still horrendously easy though.

[david0925]

The 3% aura buff is to HB, FF, SF, DS (lol wut) and Frostscythe... so... we just had our howling blast reduced by almost 50% and then... yeah no. It doesn't even affect Obliterate, Frost Strike, or RW.

might want to read the rest of the thread

[Hctaz]

I think the tooltip is just incorrect, and effects all abilities.

Yeah I started reading through the thread a bit more and saw some people linking the wowhead version which under the "show more" has every ability listed. Seems really odd that you have to dig so deep to find it though.

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Why are you cursing and spamming derp derp? Don't make it too obvious that you're emotionally invested in this.
"Rationalize class nerfs" Do you really take this game that seriously? One raid tier Frost is trash, the next it's the best, now you're getting nerfed.
Calm down buddy, it's not that serious.



Bro I get punished if I don't pop Dark Transformation at the right time (I have shoulders). Army of the Dead is a 10 minute cooldown. Enough said. Also, tracking how many runes are available for Soul Reaper is more difficult than anything in the Frost "rotation".
Frost you literally just stare at your RP bar.

Oh lol you're one of those salty unholy players who doesn't like that Frost is better. Too bad I guess? Look fam, I've played both specs in Legion. Unholy is not as hard as you make it out to be at all. It's certainly nowhere near as stressful as Frost during a Breath phase if you're actually serious about min-maxing damage. You spend like 2 hours on a training dummy and you can play both specs well enough on a Patchwerk fight but optimizing your Breath time on a boss that requires you to leave melee range is a lot more difficult than you think. You literally cannot go to a boss and perform optimally as Frost right now until you've seen every single intricacy of the fight at least once. You have to know exactly when you need to save certain abilities and if you don't do everything perfectly you're fucked. Unholy is not that intense. I promise you.

Also you should seriously stay away from threads about frost if you're just going to be salty that it's better. We're trying to have a civil discussion on the repercussions of the recent frost changes and you're in here like "UR FASERUL AND YOU DESERVE THE NERFS LEL" please. Stop.

[kaesden]

I think the tooltip is just incorrect, and effects all abilities.

One website says one thing, one says another, does anyone have any proof of which is right? So far this is just a pissing contest of who likes which source of information better. Whast we need is some proof so we can see how big a nerf this actually is.