[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Remilia]

Asking someone why they like something is pointless. Liking and hating something especially in the entertainment area is irrational to begin with as it's entirely based off emotion, which is irrational. Try to explain your favorite food for example and see how hard it is to start describing it in a rational manner. In the end it comes down to "I like it". If it's a question you had to ask then there will be no answer that'll satisfy you.

[Kaelwryn]

That's what I mean, SQUEENIX always use potatoes or female cats for their presentations.

Well when Yoshi-P is showing stuff off, he's typically on his own character (the female lalafel).

[lawow74]

Asking someone why they like something is pointless. Liking and hating something especially in the entertainment area is irrational to begin with as it's entirely based off emotion, which is irrational. Try to explain your favorite food for example and see how hard it is to start describing it in a rational manner. In the end it comes down to "I like it". If it's a question you had to ask then there will be no answer that'll satisfy you.

I disagree, asking is fine. If a person can articulate their feelings, it can tell you something about them, hopefully leading to understanding. It's then trying to tell them an opinion they hold is wrong that's pointless. If you don't agree, fine, as long as people respect one another's right to their opinion, so be it.

[Remilia]

I disagree, asking is fine. If a person can articulate their feelings, it can tell you something about them, hopefully leading to understanding. It's then trying to tell them an opinion they hold is wrong that's pointless. If you don't agree, fine, as long as people respect one another's right to their opinion, so be it.

Didn't say anything about it being fine or not, saying it's pointless as it's something held to their own. Their opinion is their own and that was really the point. Say I don't like cilantro and someone loves it, and then asks me why I don't like it. I have no real answer other than saying I don't like the taste of it, again reinforcing the (dis)like portion of it. (I actually don't like cilantro, :P). Giving reasoning for something is also going to be per person basis, so it's not like you'll get a definitive answer or anything, hence irrational. There is no answer that'll be consistent for someone's preference person to person.

[Katchii]

Asking someone why they like something is pointless. Liking and hating something especially in the entertainment area is irrational to begin with as it's entirely based off emotion, which is irrational. Try to explain your favorite food for example and see how hard it is to start describing it in a rational manner. In the end it comes down to "I like it". If it's a question you had to ask then there will be no answer that'll satisfy you.

Yes and no. Just because something is difficult to articulate doesn't mean it's impossible to communicate. Developers have to find SOMETHING concrete they can use to make the changes and updates that they do. There's always a reason someone likes something, but I think people have a tendency to over complicate or over simplify what it is they like about something.

For me, in 2.0 I enjoyed playing PLD because I really just liked how the class looked aesthetically, the animations, the whole holy knight vibe I got from it. The game play wasn't all that great, but it wasn't bad either, it just looked and felt great when I did it. Now I enjoy DRK for mostly the same reasons and I enjoy the DRK aesthetic and game play more than PLD game play because PLD feels too similar to how it did in 2.0...just too straight forward, if that makes sense.

[The Casualty]

I'll echo the question for clarity's sake. What aspect of playing a PLD is actually fun?

I like how Paladin has a button to respond to just about any kind of threat aside from magical (unless you want to count things like Rampart and Sentinel that reduce all damage). And soon they will be able to block magic attacks, so that will be moot. Their on-demand stun and unique (among tanks) ability to silence also allows for precision play when those abilities are needed (think A6S on content). I also like how I can cheese a lot of mechanics with Tempered Will, though I wish it was on a shorter cooldown as it is really more rewards niche gameplay than something that is always useful and would be OP on a shorter cooldown, like Sentinel.

Their combos flow well, but branch a little weird compared to the other tanks, as I would expect Royal Authority to branch from Riot Blade - and soon it will.

Rage of Halone is kind of meh though. Especially when you could be hitting RA. It's just like Power Slash. Cool animation, but not something you get to use a lot in high level play, which is unfortunate. But I guess that's part of the current tank meta where you do just enough threat to hold hate and then drop tank stance and throw down with DPS moves.

My only real gripe is that their AOE is vastly underwhelming non-existant compared to the other tanks. But that will change.

[Katchii]

Didn't say anything about it being fine or not, saying it's pointless as it's something held to their own. Their opinion is their own and that was really the point. Say I don't like cilantro and someone loves it, and then asks me why I don't like it. I have no real answer other than saying I don't like the taste of it, again reinforcing the (dis)like portion of it. (I actually don't like cilantro, :P). Giving reasoning for something is also going to be per person basis, so it's not like you'll get a definitive answer or anything, hence irrational. There is no answer that'll be consistent for someone's preference person to person.

But not liking the taste of it is a reasonable enough answer though. It doesn't have to be any more complicated or concrete than that. No one can describe WHY they don't like the flavor of a food, but everyone understands what it means to dislike the flavor or texture or smell of something.

[lawow74]

Didn't say anything about it being fine or not, saying it's pointless as it's something held to their own. Their opinion is their own and that was really the point. Say I don't like cilantro and someone loves it, and then asks me why I don't like it. I have no real answer other than saying I don't like the taste of it, again reinforcing the (dis)like portion of it. (I actually don't like cilantro, :P). Giving reasoning for something is also going to be per person basis, so it's not like you'll get a definitive answer or anything, hence irrational. There is no answer that'll be consistent for someone's preference person to person.

To me, pointless means you shouldn't ask, and that's too blanketing a stance to take. I feel like understanding is more often than not a good thing, and should be sought, long as you're not being prying. Nevertheless, it's semantics, so I'll shut up now on that end.

Overall I'm interested to see how everything plays with 4.0's arrival. I can see where WHM players have concerns, but I feel like SE will respond if things get too out of whack. But I'm someone who fiddles with all the jobs and doesn't really care about the raiding aspect of the game, so take that with a grain of salt.

[Remilia]

But not liking the taste of it is a reasonable enough answer though. It doesn't have to be any more complicated or concrete than that. No one can describe WHY they don't like the flavor of a food, but everyone understands what it means to dislike the flavor or texture or smell of something.

Yes and no. Just because something is difficult to articulate doesn't mean it's impossible to communicate. Developers have to find SOMETHING concrete they can use to make the changes and updates that they do. There's always a reason someone likes something, but I think people have a tendency to over complicate or over simplify what it is they like about something.

For me, in 2.0 I enjoyed playing PLD because I really just liked how the class looked aesthetically, the animations, the whole holy knight vibe I got from it. The game play wasn't all that great, but it wasn't bad either, it just looked and felt great when I did it. Now I enjoy DRK for mostly the same reasons and I enjoy the DRK aesthetic and game play more than PLD game play because PLD feels too similar to how it did in 2.0...just too straight forward, if that makes sense.

The problem comes to saying like over and over as you describe it, and that's a problem since like is an opinion, not something that I will hold similar to you or anyone else. I will never understand why someone likes cilantro, and no answer will satisfy me. I can acknowledge someone likes something cause x y z, but it won't make sense to me if I don't like it. If it's a question that has to be asked I would still not in myself see why I should like it since I dislike it cause it didn't make sense to me hence why a question was asked. Different people different quirks.

To me, pointless means you shouldn't ask, and that's too blanketing a stance to take. I feel like understanding is more often than not a good thing, and should be sought, long as you're not being prying. Nevertheless, it's semantics, so I'll shut up now on that end.

Overall I'm interested to see how everything plays with 4.0's arrival. I can see where WHM players have concerns, but I feel like SE will respond if things get too out of whack. But I'm someone who fiddles with all the jobs and doesn't really care about the raiding aspect of the game, so take that with a grain of salt.

Fair enough, may be a different wording would've been better.

I'm still confused on wtf is going on with SCH DoTs. =\

[babalou1]

Like I need more of a reason to go there

Edit: And am I the only person that STILL wants a Meteor Survivor shirt?

[Remilia]

[IMG]https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18880284_10155233134860871_3494874314302131506_o.png?oh=d9438dd18e608f90a1dbeb6fb64aeb17&o e=59EA4B7F[IMG]
Like I need more of a reason to go there

Edit: And am I the only person that STILL wants a Meteor Survivor shirt?

What the fuck is all I got in my head atm. Does this apply to PS4 or PC cause I'd get the PS4 one.

[Berethos08]

To me, pointless means you shouldn't ask, and that's too blanketing a stance to take.

It really depends on if they are asking in good faith and being genuinely curious, or if they are asking based on a sense of superiority and "I don't find this fun, how could someone else? You have to justify your opinion to me." point of view.

It's rare that the question is in good faith.

[Wrecktangle]

I know what I like about PLD: On-demand 5s stun in POTD. Plus the fact they're unstoppable, with all their oshit buttons. I know, it's not dungeons and raids, so it's not 'meaningful content', but you asked. As an aside, WHM are gods in POTD too, spammable AoE stun and a great oshit button to boot.

Though personally I spend all my time on BRD cos I enjoy the ease with which I can roam and snipe away, scout out the Cairn and get it open ASAP, whether the others are supporting me or not.

POTD is meaningful content. It could still be trivial content (I wouldn't know I haven't done it), but that's actually completely irrelevant for this discussion.

The point was to identify what non-aesthetic aspects of PLD are actually fun to you as a player? You gave 2 examples. They're valid examples backed up by proper reasoning, although I'm inclined to say that PLD doesn't have more O shit buttons, but just the most powerful one by a fairly significant margin. I don't consider regular defensive CD's o shit buttons.

My rebuttal to this would be that I WISH more content made use of that potent stun, which would indeed make that aspect of PLD more fun than its peers.

Asking someone why they like something is pointless. Liking and hating something especially in the entertainment area is irrational to begin with as it's entirely based off emotion, which is irrational. Try to explain your favorite food for example and see how hard it is to start describing it in a rational manner. In the end it comes down to "I like it". If it's a question you had to ask then there will be no answer that'll satisfy you.

Or you could actually contribute to the discussion by answering my question. If you're unable to answer then there was no reason for your post.

For clarity - I will repost here for you: What non-aesthetic aspect of PLD gameplay is fun to you and why?

If you ask me why I like my favorite food I will tell you because I like the smell of it. The taste of it, the texture, and that it's not terribly unhealthy. Literally had no issues identifying why I liked it.

Didn't say anything about it being fine or not, saying it's pointless as it's something held to their own. Their opinion is their own and that was really the point. Say I don't like cilantro and someone loves it, and then asks me why I don't like it. I have no real answer other than saying I don't like the taste of it, again reinforcing the (dis)like portion of it. (I actually don't like cilantro, :P). Giving reasoning for something is also going to be per person basis, so it's not like you'll get a definitive answer or anything, hence irrational. There is no answer that'll be consistent for someone's preference person to person.

It's actually really funny that you said this because I LITERALLY had this exact conversion with my GF like 2 weeks ago. She ordered something and specifically asked for no cilantro and I looked at her like O_o. She said she doesn't like it, and I said why don't you like it?

She had an answer immediately. It was that she doesn't like the way it tastes. Both her answer and yours are valid.

For me, in 2.0 I enjoyed playing PLD because I really just liked how the class looked aesthetically, the animations, the whole holy knight vibe I got from it. The game play wasn't all that great, but it wasn't bad either, it just looked and felt great when I did it. Now I enjoy DRK for mostly the same reasons and I enjoy the DRK aesthetic and game play more than PLD game play because PLD feels too similar to how it did in 2.0...just too straight forward, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. If you were to ask me why I liked PLD I'd have answered verbatim.

However, please note that your post directly bolsters my original argument which is that short of aesthetics there aren't *many* reasons to enjoy playing a PLD over its peers.

[Berethos08]

For clarity - I will repost here for you: What non-aesthetic aspect of PLD gameplay is fun to you and why?

So you can tell them that they are wrong and the mechanics they enjoy aren't actually fun or how they are wrong about some facet of it (which, surprise surprise, you basically started to do in the post anyway)?

I don't imagine anyone actually wants to try and have such a silly attempt at discourse with you over that.

[babalou1]

What the fuck is all I got in my head atm. Does this apply to PS4 or PC cause I'd get the PS4 one.

I dont think it matters, the post says its a code to be used on the store website

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...d2d2f103c99519

Edit: It also says in participating locations.. My town apparently isnt participating or the guy was an idiot. I asked if they had Final Fantasy cups available and he answered whats that. So I said special cups and he responded: "No, just the regular cups we always have"

[Wrecktangle]

I like how Paladin has a button to respond to just about any kind of threat aside from magical (unless you want to count things like Rampart and Sentinel that reduce all damage). And soon they will be able to block magic attacks, so that will be moot. Their on-demand stun and unique (among tanks) ability to silence also allows for precision play when those abilities are needed (think A6S on content). I also like how I can cheese a lot of mechanics with Tempered Will, though I wish it was on a shorter cooldown as it is really more rewards niche gameplay than something that is always useful and would be OP on a shorter cooldown, like Sentinel.

To clarify - I wasn't asking why you like PLD. I was asking what aspects of it do you find FUN. Having tools to do stuff can certainly bring a sense of fun, but I think its pretty safe to say that the other tanks have all of those buttons as well.

I wish the silence was an important feature to PLD, but sadly it's just a DPS button. I think there were 2-3 instances across 4 years worth of content where a PLD was required to actually use it. Not enough to really make it a feature to draw fun from.

I feel similarly with regards to TW. If it was required in more content forms I'd support it immensely and agree its a fun button, but the 2-3 instances across 4 years of content just isn't enough IMO.

It really depends on if they are asking in good faith and being genuinely curious, or if they are asking based on a sense of superiority and "I don't find this fun, how could someone else? You have to justify your opinion to me." point of view.

It's rare that the question is in good faith.

Do you think my question was in good faith?

Keep in mind that I was a PLD main in FF14 for a long time before switching to DRG. Keep in mind that I've been a PLD main in WoW for over a decade. Keep in mind that I thoroughly enjoy playing some kind of Paladin archetype in table top stuff.

- - - Updated - - -

So you can tell them that they are wrong and the mechanics they enjoy aren't actually fun or how they are wrong about some facet of it (which, surprise surprise, you basically started to do in the post anyway)?

I don't imagine anyone actually wants to try and have such a silly attempt at discourse with you over that.

Please see my response to lawow74. He contributed to the discussion and I didn't tell him he was wrong or that his opinion didn't matter.

Instead of white-knighting why not try actually contributing to the discussion instead of trying to take a stab at me.

[Remilia]

Or you could actually contribute to the discussion by answering my question. If you're unable to answer then there was no reason for your post.

For clarity - I will repost here for you: What non-aesthetic aspect of PLD gameplay is fun to you and why?

If you ask me why I like my favorite food I will tell you because I like the smell of it. The taste of it, the texture, and that it's not terribly unhealthy. Literally had no issues identifying why I liked it.

You're really narrowing the scope to find an answer for yourself. I don't play PLD cause I don't tank so that's really not my area to speak. Someone's reasoning is there, yet you disregard it. That is the problem cause anyone can like anything for any reason even if it may appear absurd to you.

It's actually really funny that you said this because I LITERALLY had this exact conversion with my GF like 2 weeks ago. She ordered something and specifically asked for no cilantro and I looked at her like O_o. She said she doesn't like it, and I said why don't you like it?

She had an answer immediately. It was that she doesn't like the way it tastes. Both her answer and yours are valid.

So now you know she doesn't like the taste. Now can you make sense of why she doesn't like the taste. Is there in any way you can find yourself disliking cilantro, this is assuming you like cilantro (bar maybe being tortured by it somehow but that's a completely different problem). If you really understand it then it would also make sense to you why you can dislike it too. Thing is, food is simple as there is a sense of relation that you can connect to, media however gets harder and harder to get a sense of understanding because that's how pleasure works. Hence why I noted entertainment being one of the hardest ones. Was asked before on this forum (I think?) about the dislike of metal music, and well... after being shown examples of it ranging from extremely mild to heavy, well... still don't like it. Reaction was "No hope for you" :P. Mutual agreement of what they dislike or like something is fine, just going deeper is well... pointless.
There is a bit of wording that will border on semantics there, so not sure if that's really going to get across. I consider acknowledgement and understanding two different things. Acknowledgement for me is just knowing that it's there. Understand is by making sense of it.

Also your GF has good taste, down with cilantro!

- - - Updated - - -

I dont think it matters, the post says its a code to be used on the store website

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...d2d2f103c99519

Edit: It also says in participating locations.. My town apparently isnt participating or the guy was an idiot. I asked if they had Final Fantasy cups available and he answered whats that. So I said special cups and he responded: "No, just the regular cups we always have"

It seems like it's only ARR? So I may have to get the expansion and everything D:

[The Casualty]

To clarify - I wasn't asking why you like PLD. I was asking what aspects of it do you find FUN. Having tools to do stuff can certainly bring a sense of fun, but I think its pretty safe to say that the other tanks have all of those buttons as well.

I wish the silence was an important feature to PLD, but sadly it's just a DPS button. I think there were 2-3 instances across 4 years worth of content where a PLD was required to actually use it. Not enough to really make it a feature to draw fun from.

I find tanking fun, and enjoy doing so on classes where I can perform well. I like pushing their buttons and getting decent effects. Regardless of how often you feel that I should have to hit a button to get maximal use out of it, read: Spirits Within, I like being able to silence mobs, and even people in PVP. It is satisfying to lock people down in pvp, or successfully avert mechanics in raids.

Aside from the aesthetics, which I also like, I'm not sure how you can negate my feelings of me enjoying the class with a simple hand-wave. That's just you not liking my reasons for what I find fun, which is silly.

I like the class. It's done well outside of the AOE which is being addressed. Do I like it more than WAR? No, but that's not the question. The question is "do I find playing paladin fun", and the answer is "yes".

[Remilia]

I dont think it matters, the post says its a code to be used on the store website

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...d2d2f103c99519

Edit: It also says in participating locations.. My town apparently isnt participating or the guy was an idiot. I asked if they had Final Fantasy cups available and he answered whats that. So I said special cups and he responded: "No, just the regular cups we always have"

Oh, so the code is
FFXIV10OFF
Just tried it, works only on the ARR PC one, since the PS4 one seems awol.

[Scufflegrit]

Instead of white-knighting why not try actually contributing to the discussion instead of trying to take a stab at me.

As you've done several times in the past few pages, let me echo my original statement, albeit a bit more bluntly this time. You're posts are coming off as exceedingly aggressive. Even if you don't think they are or intend them to be, that's the way they read. Honestly it seems like you're having a shitty day at work or something and you stress/anger/frustration is pouring out here. That's probably why some people are questioning your motives and/or simply choosing to not answer you. So maybe take a dose of your own advice and ease up a little.

Now, I will actually answer your question. It's not how the class looks (at least insofar as using the sword & board model of a tank can look different from any other sword & board tank) or the animations or anything like that. It's that it actually feels like a tank to me, while Warrior and Dark Knight don't. They play like any other DPS, only they happen to be wearing heavier armor and have a few more mitigation abilities. I mean I get that that's why some people prefer them. But if all I wanted was to play a melee DPS, I have other options that do more damage.

If you were to put all the melee characters on a sliding scale with pure tank on one end and pure DPS on the other in regards to how they feel to play, it would look something like this:

TANK:PLD---------------|--WAR/DRK------DRG---MNK--NIN--PS

Is there in any way you can find yourself disliking cilantro, this is assuming you like cilantro (bar maybe being tortured by it somehow but that's a completely different problem).

I actually had something similar to that happen to me. Not that I was tortured mind you... I like the taste of basil, but at a restaurant once I had something where the "focus spice" or whatever they called it was basil. It was the ONLY thing I could taste in the dish, and after just a few bites I couldn't stand to eat anymore. And couldn't stomach anything with basil in it for nigh on a year without getting nauseous.