reintrodukt the value of ground mounts?

[Deleted]

Did you ever play Vanilla as a class that ran everywhere at 100% speed with NO speed cooldowns/passives? Because I don't think you ever played Vanilla as a class that ran everywhere at 100% speed with NO speed cooldowns/passives.

Shorter answer: No. This would make me (and I'm sure plenty more) instantly quit the game.

You are right, I did not, I played Hunter then. Aspect of the cheetah ftw!

[Arrashi]

They should make our characters bound to wheelchair next expansion for -80% speed. First pathfinder will unlock us regular walking stick for only -50% walking speed.

What a wonderful adventure would that be.

[Thage]

And the slippery slope begins. Next, you'll be making threads asking if we should have to train running after you decided to RP-walk through questing in Azsuna or something and were mind-blown at how much longer it takes to do things (why you'd be surprised that literally doubling your travel time increases the time it takes you to do things boggles my mind). As someone who keenly remembers 40 levels of running around with no cooldowns or sprints back when 40 levels was the lion's share of the leveling experience, with only another 30 levels behind it to enjoy your mount and 10 levels to enjoy your fast mount, this is entirely a problem that exists between the chair and keyboard.

Making people "appreciate" ground mounts more will only serve to cause players to cry out for a fast travel system like in FFXIV, Guild Wars 2, and other more modern MMORPGs, which in turn will almost completely devalue ground mounts unless you've the bad luck to have a quest hub and a questing area on opposite ends of the zone, at which point players will start to say "fuck it" and dungeon-grind instead like many already do through 60-70 content.

[Deleted]

No. There's no need to "reintroduce value" to ground mounts. Their value never went away.

Of all things to suggest... you suggest this? Really?

I'm not a very smart man?

I just tried to think of something new.

[Queen of Hamsters]

This is an MMORPG which allows flying and has a plethora of flying mounts. They tried doing away with flying entirely in WoD, the backlash was severe and they decided to compromise. Now we have them make introduction of free flight into a patch feature and they still get to see us trod around bound to the ground until we can recite every rock or tree stump.

Don't like it? Well there are MMO's out there that never even allowed ground mounts. Don't expect this game which has had them for longer than it didn't to change because YOU are conjuring up problems in regards to how others enjoy the game in your mind.

And there's no need to "reintroduce value" to ground mounts. They're essential for your experience not being a VERY tedious one upon landing in new content, or leveling characters in no-fly areas, or questing in no-fly areas. Their value never went away in the first place. Some of us have spent our time in this game collecting said mounts and coveting them, repeating over and over with new rare mounts added. We don't need someone to try and decide how we value mounts.

If it's a case of "I wanna feel as nostalgic about my 250th mount as I did with my first 60% mount!!", then tough shit. Save of rewinding time and removing memories, that's just not going to happen.

[Regalbeast]

What the hell did I just read? I can't even understand the thread title.

[Deleted]

They should make our characters bound to wheelchair next expansion for -80% speed. First pathfinder will unlock us regular walking stick for only -50% walking speed.

What a wonderful adventure would that be.

Okay that was funny, but f you

[Eon Drache]

I'm not quite sure, what issue you are refering to with flying mounts. May I ask of you to elaborate for me please?

Flying makes the questing experience feel a bit disconnected where as ground mounts simply make things faster. You still have to transverse the environment and interact with it. With flight it take the environment out of the game completely.

The same can be said about Flying with LOT less chance of Daze vs ground ,faster travel via more direct path. Flying made WQ and everyday actions in the open world easier and faster.

No flying while leveling is understandable, getting flying at max lvl or thru pathfinder is fine. If people don't want to fly they can use ground mounts, Bliz is not holding a gun to their head saying they must use flying mounts.

I'm a bit confused what you're even arguing... I'm saying the OP's idea is bad. Very bad. Taking out ground mounts or making it so you can't use them while questing or the first few patches of an expansion would mean it would take an unbearable amount of time to do tasks and the game would need to be adjusted for that size.

[Queen of Hamsters]

With flight it take the environment out of the game completely.

So whenever you fly, you go up high enough that you can't see the ground, fly over where your objective is and then you go down in a straight line, rinse and repeat...?

Yeah no, that's not how I play and I can tell you that flying sure as shit doesn't take the environment out of the game to me. That doesn't even make sense, how can something that you're IN, be taken out? But then I fly so that I can see what goes on and react if I see something of interest.

It doesn't take the environment out of the game any more than slapping on a Barding to prevent dazing and running the straight line you always take in order to get to where you want to be faster.

If flying makes you feel as if though the world is removed from your gameplay, then it's a you problem. The one time flying takes ME out of the game, is when I have to rely on taxis. With free flying, I spend much more time in the world controlling my character during travels.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

But but but GUYS, flying mounts destroyed world PVP! (Not instanced backgrounds, or the fact that most people actually hate PVP and world PVP especially, and despite that hatred most of the ones who did it anyway only did so because there was fuck-all else to do at end game; it was flying mounts, dammit!)

Oh wait, no, the narrative has changed ones those fucktards realized that removing flying mounts didn't bring world PVP back. So, what is it now? Oh right, right. <ahem>

But but but GUYS, flying mounts make it so you don't stop to appreciate the terrain and how awesome Blizzard is!!! (Even though the exact opposite is true, as if you stop to enjoy the scenery, chances are you're going to get knocked on your ass due to the idiotic daze mechanic that affects 7/10ths of the specs in the game, so you're forced to run through the terrain as fast as you can with tunnel vision so that you can actually get where you're going.)

Oh wait, no. Basic logic has no impact on the aforementioned fucktards, so what is it now? Oh yeah, I remember...

But but but GUYS, if I don't say flying needs to go, I don't sound like an ultra-kewl (I'm misspelling "cool" so that I appear even more 'kewl') pro gamer, yo. No EZ-mode for me, I'm that hardcore ya'll! And now everyone knows it, cause I'm saying I hate flying even though the day it became available I was all OVER that shit because fuck ground mounts. Oh wait, shit, did I say that out loud? Pretend you didn't hear that. Down with flying! I'm so hardcore and MEGA-KEWL!!!

<insert the biggest set of rolled eyes you've ever bore witness to here>

[Deleted]

Flying makes the questing experience feel a bit disconnected where as ground mounts simply make things faster. You still have to transverse the environment and interact with it. With flight it take the environment out of the game completely.



I'm a bit confused what you're even arguing... I'm saying the OP's idea is bad. Very bad. Taking out ground mounts or making it so you can't use them while questing or the first few patches of an expansion would mean it would take an unbearable amount of time to do tasks and the game would need to be adjusted for that size.

Thank you for your elaboration, and i admit defeat in this argument. But thank you for trying and discussion with me, instead like other, just being dicks.
So thank you Eon.



And fuck you Rocanna and Thage if you really havn't learnt how to have a discussion, or learnt how THE FUCK TO READ. Jeez.

[Queen of Hamsters]

But but but GUYS, flying mounts destroyed world PVP! (Not instanced backgrounds, or the fact that most people actually hate PVP and world PVP especially, and despite that hatred most of the ones who did it anyway only did so because there was fuck-all else to do at end game; it was flying mounts, dammit!)

Oh wait, no, the narrative has changed ones those fucktards realized that removing flying mounts didn't bring world PVP back. So, what is it now? Oh right, right. <ahem>

But but but GUYS, flying mounts make it so you don't stop to appreciate the terrain and how awesome Blizzard is!!! (Even though the exact opposite is true, as if you stop to enjoy the scenery, chances are you're going to get knocked on your ass due to the idiotic daze mechanic that affects 7/10ths of the specs in the game, so you're forced to run through the terrain as fast as you can with tunnel vision so that you can actually get where you're going.)

Oh wait, no. Basic logic has no impact on the aforementioned fucktards, so what is it now? Oh yeah, I remember...

But but but GUYS, if I don't say flying needs to go, I don't sound like an ultra-kewl (I'm misspelling "cool" so that I appear even more 'kewl') pro gamer, yo. No EZ-mode for me, I'm that hardcore ya'll! And now everyone knows it, cause I'm saying I hate flying even though the day it became available I was all OVER that shit because fuck ground mounts. Oh wait, shit, did I say that out loud? Pretend you didn't hear that. Down with flying! I'm so hardcore and MEGA-KEWL!!!

<insert the biggest set of rolled eyes you've ever bore witness to here>

Indeed.

At least, logic worked on the developers and is the reason behind why we now have the Pathfinder compromise in place. They realized that enough players value flying for deeper reasons than "convenience". Legion has a ton of convenient travel solutions in place for people that truly only want it. The whistle, flightpaths scattered all over, breadcrumb quests taking you straight to a flightpath of the zone etc etc.

Flying at this point in time is something you get because you want the freedom it brings. Be it purely for travel purposes, or because you enjoy being free to move as you please in all directions and exploring at your own will.

Won't stop people from keeping on burping the same illogical buzzphrases time and again because they're apparently stuck playing a game with features they've hated ever since they were implemented and have been unable to feel immersed whenever using a flying mount but highly immersed traversing the same hill for the 505th time running through trivial mobs.

I would match your eye-roll, but I'm afraid I might hurt myself in order to achieve it.

- - - Updated - - -

And fuck you Rocanna and Thage if you really havn't learnt how to have a discussion, or learnt how THE FUCK TO READ. Jeez.

I don't think you're the right person to try and preach, not with this little tantrum under your belt.

[Deleted]

I guess it is always nice to be clever and insightful 10 years AFTER the fact and I swear if flying was never introduced we would have a QQ thread EVERY single day how MMO x y and z can do flying but Blizzard cannot.

Thing is, with all the "Oh, they don't listen" threads - the demand (after it was introduced in TBC) to also be able to fly was just so massive, that Cataclysm was there for this thing also: To re-design Azeroth for flight. There is no backing out of this. I cannot remember even one thread on this forum cautioning against flying in TBC or flying in Azeroth in Cata.

Everybody had a hard-on for flying

But it also mean you can never take it out again without people going apeshit. Waterstrider is another example and arenas, arena's being something that Blizzard wish they never had done

[MrKnubbles]

How about we keep our ground mounts but the first pathfinder grants movement speed to ground mounts? Second pathfinder grants flying.

[Queen of Hamsters]

How about we keep our ground mounts but the first pathfinder grants movement speed to ground mounts? Second pathfinder grants flying.

Didn't the first pathfinder already give increased movement speed...? At least in Broken Isles?

Edit; Yep, it did.

[Eon Drache]

I'm not quite sure, what issue you are refering to with flying mounts. May I ask of you to elaborate for me please?

The same can be said about Flying with LOT less chance of Daze vs ground ,faster travel via more direct path. Flying made WQ and everyday actions in the open world easier and faster.

No flying while leveling is understandable, getting flying at max lvl or thru pathfinder is fine. If people don't want to fly they can use ground mounts, Bliz is not holding a gun to their head saying they must use flying mounts.

So whenever you fly, you go up high enough that you can't see the ground, fly over where your objective is and then you go down in a straight line, rinse and repeat...?

Yeah no, that's not how I play and I can tell you that flying sure as shit doesn't take the environment out of the game to me. That doesn't even make sense, how can something that you're IN, be taken out? But then I fly so that I can see what goes on and react if I see something of interest.

It doesn't take the environment out of the game any more than slapping on a Barding to prevent dazing and running the straight line you always take in order to get to where you want to be faster.

If flying makes you feel as if though the world is removed from your gameplay, then it's a you problem. The one time flying takes ME out of the game, is when I have to rely on taxis. With free flying, I spend much more time in the world controlling my character during travels.

I think you're reading my response as I don't want flying? That isn't my argument at all. I'm saying that UNLIKE flight ground mounts keep you ON THE GROUND. You have to go over that hill or through that gate. Even if it is a little faster you still have to pay attention to all the stuff between point A and point B. And yes. I do fly straight up over the terrain. I'm not going to fly into that mountain or that tree.

Again, I'm NOT stating flying = bad. I'm stating that taking ground mounts out of the game for 2 patches or 6 months would be bad.

[Ielenia]

They'd need a way to make ground mounts better in some scenarios. I can't think of a good idea off the top of my head to be honest.

One idea I have is to make flying mounts unable to go into any cave and tunnel, since there are some caves you can use your mount inside, in Legion, and allow ground mounts to always be usable in all caves and tunnels in the game.

[FelPlague]

ok so here we go

ground mounts made you 60% or 100% faster, this is fine, as you are still traveling normally, just faster
(Yellow is first path, green is second path, pink is third path, red=mob encounter, blue=player encounter, this is not a perfect example, but it is to give a point)

but flying mounts were faster, and faster, and also allowed you to skip terrain, ground mounts made you faster, but you still have to deal with mobs, follow terrain, and look at people but flying mounts allowed you to do this


now yes, number 2 is MUCH more efficient and fast.
but that is not what RPGs are about, yes the most fast and efficient way is allways the way people will choose if they can
but that is not allways a good thing... to skip through cinematics and quest text, to only do the most efficient things, that ruins a game, it ruins the fun.

it will allways be said

to play pokemon
you either play the way you want, with the pokemon you find, and wish to use, your favorites and your most fun
or you can play the meta, only the strongest, breed till they are perfect, and play unfun games of tic tac toe as you spend most of a match switching pokemon and buffing

[Queen of Hamsters]

I think you're reading my response as I don't want flying? That isn't my argument at all. I'm saying that UNLIKE flight ground mounts keep you ON THE GROUND. You have to go over that hill or through that gate. Even if it is a little faster you still have to pay attention to all the stuff between point A and point B. And yes. I do fly straight up over the terrain. I'm not going to fly into that mountain or that tree.

Again, I'm NOT stating flying = bad. I'm stating that taking ground mounts out of the game for 2 patches or 6 months would be bad.

No, I'm arguing against the notion that the world you're in whilst playing, can somehow be taken out of said game simply by a certain transport mode. As I said, short of flying up so high you don't spot the ground, toggle auto-move and sitting staring at your map until you come over the area you want to be in, there's no such thing as "the world being taken out of the gameplay". And if someone plays that way, then he/she shouldn't complain about not seeing the world. I want to see the world, so I fly pretty close to the ground, sometimes just above it because I like how fast it feels.

You're still in the game whilst flying. And most people learn to navigate the ground after just a few times passing, so aside from having to jump/turn around obstacles you know are coming your way, I see no difference from flying and keeping track of where you are and seeing the world that way and, if you fly below the canopy, still having a need to navigate around obstacles.

The end result is always the same, people run through/over the trivial shit they're not bothered with in order to get to the place where they want to be. Others choose to take the scenic route, going off the track to do something on a whim etc etc.

I'm actually surprised that there haven't been far more complaint threads about the flight master's whistle. It does more to allow people to skip terrain than any previous feature... Doesn't seem to stop people from being out in the world, seeing the world and interacting with said world though. Same as flying so long as said world is worth going out into.

- - - Updated - - -

now yes, number 2 is MUCH more efficient and fast.
but that is not what RPGs are about, yes the most fast and efficient way is allways the way people will choose if they can
but that is not allways a good thing... to skip through cinematics and quest text, to only do the most efficient things, that ruins a game, it ruins the fun.

Then you can just choose NOT to play it in such a way. What ruins your fun might not ruin somebody else's fun, on the contrary. To many players, enough in fact to make the devs compromise, flying is PART of the fun.

Nobody's dictating how anyone plays this RPG, and plenty of us are able to have fun and feel immersed just fine with flying. And seeing people? No other expansion has had more people out in the relevant zones @ max level than Legion. That holds true still, with flying.

People choosing the most efficient way =/= them being forced. I say this as someone who leveled 3 characters to max level without a single minute spent flying on my own. Other characters I choose to level as efficiently as possible without paying any mind to the storylines I've seen 33 times by now.

[purebalance]

Problem is that people feel that flying is needed now. It should never have been introduced in TBC and especially not in Cataclysm.

I think the introduction this time was fine. I'm at that point where I am perfectly ok with just flying up the tower for the pvp WQ and killing the captain then flying back down and finishing. I'm ok with flying through Suramar after having to deal with sneaking around for so long. However, any earlier it would have been stupid. I do think BS should have waited a little longer on flying. For example I think they should have had the opening of ToS which implies we conquered the actual land there should have been the time you could fly on Broken Shore. Everywhere else should have been ok. Like a debuff like on TI and IoT etc.