Discussion: Leveling is a dead concept, how should it be replaced?

[Teri]

I would like to see wow as instead of leveing for new expansion like 110 to 120. I wanna see them try an expansion where ur alrdy max level nd u quest nd explore new zonrs for noobie gear then do normals heroics raid etc.. what u think about that idea

Would love that, working your way up from scratch pretty much but extended like Burning crusade, no overlap lucky titanforging etc but alternative paths of content / gearing.

[Blur4stuff]

I'd like to see leveling done away with. Progression should be gear and skill advancement/acquisition.

[Kokolums]

Also, the gamers have no self control and constantly whine to remove every obstacle in their path. If they got their way, you would log in, one shot the final boss, and then say "this game sucks!" and never log in again.

Perhaps NO thread illustrated this lack of self control more than this one. Remove leveling COMPLETELY??? No game designer should follow that advice. They could remove leveling and it won't be enough. Next they will say "remove PvP in its entirety, dead concept!" Then "remove the game world in its entirely, dead concept!" "Remove gearing up, dead concept!"

Then you will log in at max level with full BiS slot, and walk down the hallway and one shot Sargeras.

The only difference here is we have a new phrase. Instead of "Outdated mechanics" they now say "dead concept".

This thread is as old as this forum, its just repackaged. Always whining to remove VAST amounts of the game that you don't like. They pop up regularly.

[Zapanth]

I rather like the leveling process, it gives my character a sense of progression, instead of just instant IM THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD!

[Evaddon]

I'd like to see leveling done away with. Progression should be gear and skill advancement/acquisition.

That's how I'm feeling these days after blasting through multiple level caps in multiple MMO's. The questing system should award power,gear,skills or whatever matters in that game universe

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I rather like the leveling process, it gives my character a sense of progression, instead of just instant IM THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD!

But it doesn't you 1 shot everything in most MMO's from level 1 until cap....

if it rewarded player power through the questing experinece along with gear, and skills, then you'd truly feel like you're building your character up through the adventures and quest you partake in. That would feel like progression to me

[WintersLegion]

That's how I'm feeling these days after blasting through multiple level caps in multiple MMO's. The questing system should award power,gear,skills or whatever matters in that game universe

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But it doesn't you 1 shot everything in most MMO's from level 1 until cap....

if it rewarded player power through the questing experinece along with gear, and skills, then you'd truly feel like you're building your character up through the adventures and quest you partake in. That would feel like progression to me

Take off the heirlooms and you won't be one shotting things at lvl 1

[Frumpy Frumpy Frak]

What I want is a level squish. A the moment there are too many levels at which you unlock nothing. If they cut our levels in half, that would greatly reduce the number of dead levels we encounter. It might only be a superficial change but having that carrot of unlocking something new every level would make it feel so much better.

What I also want to see is for every pre-current expansion zone in the game to scale from 1-the level you unlock the current expansion's zones.

[Hiricine]

Leveling is fine, though unnecessary. Its a good way to gate content for newer players to have some sort of process to get through the game.

Also for most people, the leveling experience is much more enjoyable than the gearing experience.

[Evaddon]

Also, the gamers have no self control and constantly whine to remove every obstacle in their path. If they got their way, you would log in, one shot the final boss, and then say "this game sucks!" and never log in again.

Perhaps NO thread illustrated this lack of self control more than this one. Remove leveling COMPLETELY??? No game designer should follow that advice. They could remove leveling and it won't be enough. Next they will say "remove PvP in its entirety, dead concept!" Then "remove the game world in its entirely, dead concept!" "Remove gearing up, dead concept!"

Then you will log in at max level with full BiS slot, and walk down the hallway and one shot Sargeras.

The only difference here is we have a new phrase. Instead of "Outdated mechanics" they now say "dead concept".

This thread is as old as this forum, its just repackaged. Always whining to remove VAST amounts of the game that you don't like. They pop up regularly.

Before commenting read the post. I'm saying remove the number, remove the experience points. Make leveling matter long term with rewarding player power,gear, skils. The point and everything said you have missed, reread you must, comprehend you can!

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Take off the heirlooms and you won't be one shotting things at lvl 1

Okay two shotting, WOW lol. I've leveled without BoA multiple times, and don't even have the experience boosting items in other MMO's because leveling is just to damn fast, to damn easy, and means so little besides rushing to the cap half the time

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What I want is a level squish. A the moment there are too many levels at which you unlock nothing. If they cut our levels in half, that would greatly reduce the number of dead levels we encounter. It might only be a superficial change but having that carrot of unlocking something new every level would make it feel so much better.

Yep not getting anything for multiple levels at a time does sour the experience. That's why I'm saying remove levels, make the questing system better and more rewarding, give you feeling of getting powerful from these events you take part in. Give player power, skills, gear, just remove 1,2,3 of leveling. Gives them more options for rewards through the questing system, and to make them actually meaningful for the long term of the game/expansion

[Lightbull]

This is a tricky question. Levelling to the required level for end game content may be a dead concept now, but WoW has had levelling in it for years, which makes it hard to replace.

I came up with this idea last night so it's probably horrible, but what if the level cap was reduced to level 60, or even lower? With the level scaling in Broken Isles, it's possible that we can see scaling over the entire world. You would be able to pick which zones you want to level in, until the last 5-10 levels where you level in the new zones. Raids would still be soloable because you will have the damage multipliers we already see in old raids. Just a suggestion for squishing levels, but again it's not very fleshed out so it could be horrible.

[Moozart]

...Not just speaking about WoW, but in generally every MMO.
Its a needless climb of "the real game starts at level cap" and hinters the progression of the player until they finally reach that cap making everything before so essentially pointless because lets face it...no mmo's starting experience is a giant tutorial, often just bland unoriginal kill/gather/group quest while some zones might tell an interesting story, or you might find a interesting chain quest...but guess what, you'll out level it before you finish the zone or that chain! Because wouldn't you know it...every mmo seems to come with experience boosting gear nowadays which makes questing even more so unnecessarily fast, even when before hand it..was unnecessarily fast.

But you'll say"But its is necessary to get to the real game faster" but then you have games offering max level boost you can buy, or a previous expansion level boost even rewarding max characters with a purchase of a new expansion. Many games even strip leveling after a time to go for an item level sort of approach. So why not replace it altogether?

And further more, its just going to get ridiculous. Hell look at WoW, we are already 110 what's next 125, 140??

Its to late for WoW's early game to take this approach but next expansion, not gracing us with a veil 10 more levels to grind out? Possible. They already have the scaling technology in place.

So the question is, how do we make the questing experience rewarding and impactful to the end game experience as well making it a essential stepping stone in player progression without rewarding experience,levels for gratification?

P.S. Not saying remove the questing experience, just remove...experience points to get to level 2 and so on and so fourth. Reward player power, and abilities, and gear by questing instead of the traditional experience and new number to point to your shirt for the next 30 minutes until the new shiny number gets pinned

Pardon us, I wasn't aware Blizzard got a new lead developer.

[melodramocracy]

It's not a dead concept. Next.

[Evaddon]

Pardon us, I wasn't aware Blizzard got a new lead developer.

See that word in the title?
Say it slowly Di-Di-Discu..YOU GOT IT...."DISCUSSION"!
Don't be a dick

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This isn't saying remove the quest, or new zones, this is saying remove the level next to your name, with the thing that provides it,experience points, make quest matter by rewarding player power (Example:Artifact Power) that will always matter through out expansions along with skills/abilities and gear, even reputations to reward you for adventures/quest. This would feel more like character progression because after each expansion you will always end with more power then what you started with by completing the questing experience

Here's the key idea to this thread.

[Moozart]

See that word in the title?
Say it slowly Di-Di-Discu..YOU GOT IT...."DISCUSSION"!
Don't be a dick

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Here's the key idea to this thread.

I wasn't being dick, look through my posts if you want to see a Dick

[Evaddon]

This is a tricky question. Levelling to the required level for end game content may be a dead concept now, but WoW has had levelling in it for years, which makes it hard to replace.

I came up with this idea last night so it's probably horrible, but what if the level cap was reduced to level 60, or even lower? With the level scaling in Broken Isles, it's possible that we can see scaling over the entire world. You would be able to pick which zones you want to level in, until the last 5-10 levels where you level in the new zones. Raids would still be soloable because you will have the damage multipliers we already see in old raids. Just a suggestion for squishing levels, but again it's not very fleshed out so it could be horrible.

Yeah I know it would be hard to replace, but something they can introduce for a new expansion. No level cap raise. God...I don't want to be 115, or 120. Seems silly to me :P but its something new MMO's could try and tackle

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I wasn't being dick, look through my posts if you want to see a Dick

Then you were being snotty (which is a stupid word to use), which I wasn't asking for that either. Nor was it warranted

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It's not a dead concept. Next.

Okay then its a slow, stinking, rotting, body on the brink of death?
Add something to a discussion thread, that adds to discussion or don't stop by with unimportant and uninspired input.

[Jtbrig7390]

The fix is simple, Allow max level token boosts two months after the release of a expansion.

So those who want to level will and people who don't can buy a max level.

[Mirishka]

...Not just speaking about WoW, but in generally every MMO.
Its a needless climb of "the real game starts at level cap" and hinters the progression of the player until they finally reach that cap making everything before so essentially pointless because lets face it...no mmo's starting experience is a giant tutorial, often just bland unoriginal kill/gather/group quest while some zones might tell an interesting story, or you might find a interesting chain quest...but guess what, you'll out level it before you finish the zone or that chain! Because wouldn't you know it...every mmo seems to come with experience boosting gear nowadays which makes questing even more so unnecessarily fast, even when before hand it..was unnecessarily fast.

But you'll say"But its is necessary to get to the real game faster" but then you have games offering max level boost you can buy, or a previous expansion level boost even rewarding max characters with a purchase of a new expansion. Many games even strip leveling after a time to go for an item level sort of approach. So why not replace it altogether?

And further more, its just going to get ridiculous. Hell look at WoW, we are already 110 what's next 125, 140??

Its to late for WoW's early game to take this approach but next expansion, not gracing us with a veil 10 more levels to grind out? Possible. They already have the scaling technology in place.

So the question is, how do we make the questing experience rewarding and impactful to the end game experience as well making it a essential stepping stone in player progression without rewarding experience,levels for gratification?

P.S. Not saying remove the questing experience, just remove...experience points to get to level 2 and so on and so fourth. Reward player power, and abilities, and gear by questing instead of the traditional experience and new number to point to your shirt for the next 30 minutes until the new shiny number gets pinned

No. One of the dumbest ideas I've seen on these forums and that's saying something. Leveling is a core part of the RPG experience and no matter how 'fast food service' WoW can be at times, it is still at its core an RPG.

If you want a game where you don't have to level, go play a FPS or something.

WoW already lets you ignore the first 100 levels, and likely the first 110 next expansion. That is more than enough.

[Evaddon]

The fix is simple, Allow max level token boosts two months after the release of a expansion.

So those who want to level will and people who don't can buy a max level.

Not a simple fix at all, and would cause mass exodus of players. Would probably likely kill the game. Even if two months after launch, that's still within the first tier window that's why they usually only allow it at the end of the expansion. Wouldn't work and would cause the rage to flow, and honestly not what I'm trying to discuss nor the point

[Darktbs]

This isn't saying remove the quest, or new zones, this is saying remove the level next to your name, with the thing that provides it,experience points, make quest matter by rewarding player power (Example:Artifact Power) that will always matter through out expansions along with skills/abilities and gear, even reputations to reward you for adventures/quest. This would feel more like character progression because after each expansion you will always end with more power then what you started with by completing the questing experience

Here's the key idea to this thread.

We would be doing the same thing but with a different name.

Do a quest-> get a currency that increases our power the more we do it.-> Profit.

Artifact Power is a never ending questing experience, which you can get from everything.

Leveling experience is a way for the player to learn how the game works and how to play the class said player is using.The more you play the more you know.

[Evaddon]

No. One of the dumbest ideas I've seen on these forums and that's saying something. Leveling is a core part of the RPG experience and no matter how 'fast food service' WoW can be at times, it is still at its core an RPG.

If you want a game where you don't have to level, go play a FPS or something.

WoW already lets you ignore the first 100 levels, and likely the first 110 next expansion. That is more than enough.

LMAO you clearly haven't been on this forum long enough?
You missed the point, its not even that bad of an idea. So clearly you missed the point if it the dumbest idea you've seen on the forums. Also, not really an idea...a discussion on how to make leveling important. Lols. /facepalm /wheelchairOverTheFoot /DoorToTheThumb /FaceToKeyboard

This isn't saying remove the quest, or new zones, this is saying remove the level next to your name, with the thing that provides it,experience points, make quest matter by rewarding player power (Example:Artifact Power) that will always matter through out expansions along with skills/abilities and gear, even reputations to reward you for adventures/quest. This would feel more like character progression because after each expansion you will always end with more power then what you started with by completing the questing experience