Discussion: Leveling is a dead concept, how should it be replaced?

[Raone]

Leveling should compliment the content, not gate it.

In WoW leveling gates the content making it a chore instead of a fun bonus, but a game like Divinity Original Sin compliments it because you slowly become stronger by playing the game and even stronger if you do optional stuff but all the content is still there, you don't have to level before hand to do it.

[Evaddon]

Why stop there? Let's make leveling the whole expansion! Endless levels...

Ugh god noooooo Skyforge nightmares man!

[Jinpachi]

Maybe you should stop worrying about leveling fast, and enjoy the content that the writers worked to provide for us. At least the first time around, that is. I know you haven't seen all there is to offer in the way of narrative

[Evaddon]

Maybe you should stop worrying about leveling fast, and enjoy the content that the writers worked to provide for us. At least the first time around, that is. I know you haven't seen all there is to offer in the way of narrative

That's only one of the problems with leveling these days is the speed of it, I'm saying quest need to be more meaningful, more rewarding and actually feel like they progress me in power rather then a number changing and some stat weights going up by a very little. I just think the questing experience should be improved and the leveling system could be done away with at this point for future MMO's. How? Not to sure. Player Power and Skills make sense to be for a good reward instead of experience points. Have be it whatever this player power takes form of

[jlrm365]

You'd do better to move a few words.
Ask for opinions, rather than assume there is agreement.
Plenty of people find it a fun activity, as mentioned in this thread. A smarter headline:
Is levelling a dead concept? Should it be replaced? How?

[Ticj]

In my opinion the only way to fix it is completely streamline leveling after level 60.

Once you get to level 60 you would get to pick one continent to go through from everything but the current expansion, and that's all you have to do. Once you complete that you do the current expansion's leveling and you are max level.




The reasoning for this is because no new player is going to be excited about slogging through 110 levels just to be able to get where everyone else is playing at. Sure, boosts help this a bit, but if that new player changes his mind on what he plays (which they almost always do) they are going to be freaking flabbergasted at the work load ahead of them.



If your goal for leveling right now is to get a new main/alt that you will play continuously at max level, then leveling is a chore. But if your goal for leveling is to just chill out and level a bit just for the hell of it, it's pretty nice.

[Evaddon]

You'd do better to move a few words.
Ask for opinions, rather than assume there is agreement.
Plenty of people find it a fun activity, as mentioned in this thread. A smarter headline:
Is levelling a dead concept? Should it be replaced? How?

Yeah I do in the thread, but I keep forgetting people only read titles and then reply?

Broad statements are eye catchers thou

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In my opinion the only way to fix it is completely streamline leveling after level 60.

Once you get to level 60 you would get to pick one continent to go through from everything but the current expansion, and that's all you have to do. Once you complete that you do the current expansion's leveling and you are max level.

I would love that idea man, you don't even know. But that doesn't fix every problem with the questing experience or leveling experience. Would be hugely beneficial though for WoW

[McFuu]

I think Legion does the best the best with leveling. As much as I dislike autoscaling, it's done a lot for this expansion in terms of keeping the whole expansion alive, all the zones. I'd love to have the current end game system and scaling in Wrath, so I could have spent more time in Grizzly Hills.

I don't think leveling will go anywhere though. I'd love a pure adventurous, free nature of the game, where everything is Character power points, but really thats just leveling by another name. I also don't think an MMO is a places to sprawl that kind of idea. It would be better served in an Elder Scrolls style game.

[Evaddon]

I think Legion does the best the best with leveling. As much as I dislike autoscaling, it's done a lot for this expansion in terms of keeping the whole expansion alive, all the zones. I'd love to have the current end game system and scaling in Wrath, so I could have spent more time in Grizzly Hills.

I don't think leveling will go anywhere though. I'd love a pure adventurous, free nature of the game, where everything is Character power points, but really thats just leveling by another name. I also don't think an MMO is a places to sprawl that kind of idea. It would be better served in an Elder Scrolls style game.

Yeah that is going to be the best bet for the future of WoW, but other MMO's to come...I think they should tackle leveling/questing in a new direction

[Deleted]

Careful with that talk. Apparently if you don't agree with his idea, you're either a dick or clearly, you have missed the point.

No problem with that.

That gets replaced by item level type system, or gear score type system eventually, and is really fast and doesn't teach me anything about my class,make me feel any progression other then hitting a level cap (which by now isn't rewarding anymore, I'm 110) But your set in your ways, and that's fine. Most people aren't open minded to change and new ideas that don't fit what they want. That's cool too.

Sorry that you dont like rpgs. Care to explain why you chose one to play?

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Guild Wars 1 had barely any "leveling" (max level 20) and it was super fun through and through.

and GW was a FAILURE.....

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I think Legion does the best the best with leveling. As much as I dislike autoscaling, it's done a lot for this expansion in terms of keeping the whole expansion alive, all the zones.

And I hope scaling dies in a fire. or they do it better but they wont do that so I hope for option one

[Lime]

Guild Wars 1 had barely any "leveling" (max level 20) and it was super fun through and through.

I think a lot of players confuse "Progress" with "Leveling".
Obtaining new skills doesn't require levels. It can be handled in many different ways.
What leveling does is actually segregating everything in the game.
The level 10 zone, the level 15 zone.
It's bad design promoting more bad design.
But since people are so used to it, it's hard to let go.

I actually loved GW1's take on it. I sometimes forget all about that. Expansions didn't even raise the max level, they just added more shit.

But obviously, I don't want it's exact system to ever be in WoW.

[melodramocracy]

Okay then its a slow, stinking, rotting, body on the brink of death?

It isn't that either. It's found in pretty much every RPG out there, whether you're actively shown the numbers or not. You continue leveling once you've reached max level here as well, it simply turns into an item-based power gain rather than simply a character stat based one. If you'd like to contemplate an MMO of any sort where all things are instantly available to you, and all environments are accessible (another element of leveling), you'd see a game that had very little longevity, and relied almost completely on it's PvP elements to stay afloat, as players would only focus on the content that yielded the reward / effort ratio, much like they do now, and always have done.

WoW's biggest leveling flaw is how quickly it's accomplished, but that's always been the case. Being able to reach max level in a few weeks during an expansion that is 18 months long, when a significant chunk of the game's content is experienced in that short timeframe, makes very little sense.

[ls-]

It shouldnt be replaced. Leveling is fun and if anything should take longer so youre forced to do the old content. Removing level boosting would be nice.

Why should I be forced to do the old content though? Purchasable boosts are a good alternative.

On topic, although I don't like levelling in MMORPGS, it's 100% linear, I don't think that levelling should be removed. Alts should require time and commitment to maintain. Levelling, spending time on doing chores on alts, etc are the price you have to pay. If anything, I think that currently you can get and maintain an army of alts too easily.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The leveling content is by far the most entertaining during the whole expansion cycle each and every time.

[Xofa]

Fuck that. I'm glad you are not a developer.

Why do you care if someone else uses a level boost? It does not effect you in any way. If you don't like it, don't use it.

Are you serious? Please for the love of god.. Don't say you are that dumb, really? :O /facepalm x100

[schwarzkopf]

leveling should be like it was in vanilla.

Oh - imagine the whinging then

Took me several months to get from 1-60

[Vargur]

It shouldnt be replaced. Leveling is fun and if anything should take longer so youre forced to do the old content. Removing level boosting would be nice.

Look at EVE. It never had player levels, only skills that the player could choose to level (in real time, off/online).
And yes, I agree that "leveling" is the most boring and retarded part of starting to play an MMO. Playing through a campaign is not, like STO or SWTOR's.

[ls-]

Oh - imagine the whinging then

Took me several months to get from 1-60

Weeks*, it took months only if you were new to MMORPGs and that's w/o guides, wowhead, etc. Nowadays it'd be even faster.

[Deleted]

Leveling isn't dead, in fact it is stronger than ever - it has even moved on to involve both the MOBA and the FPS genre.

This is likely because it is a solid system that utilizes the Skinner Box Method to entice players to keep going for that next treat, in this case another level.

Also, why in the world would anyone want to level if they can just jump straight into end-game content because they are at the same level as everyone else, they just need to grind out a bit of gear to be on par with everyone else?

[schwarzkopf]

Weeks*, it took months only if you were new to MMORPGs and that's w/o guides, wowhead, etc. Nowadays it'd be even faster.

Months*, it took months if you didn't have a bunch of people to help you level.

When I started, there were no guides - I think I was in my 50s when I started having thottbot.

Note - that a lion's share of those months were just walking from one place to another.